New guy questions: Klasse? Ceramic?

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Glossybimmer

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Hello all,

New guy here, so please excuse the new guy questions:

1. Years ago, I used to use Klasse AIO and SG, and got great results, but I don't see a ton of people using the Klasse products anymore. Is this because some of the new sealants are substantially better? If so, is there a consensus "best sealant" at the moment?

2. I've got a brand new BMW coming and the dealer is trying to sell me on a ceramic coating. Is this REALLY something that I should consider? The dealer is suggesting Gtechniq...for about $2,000 plus $600 per year maintenance. This seems insane to me.

Thanks in advance!
 
Have not used Klasse Twins but they are good and have a good longevity from them. The problem I have seen on here from them who have used them is they are a little tricky and hard to get on and wipe off. There are so many options out there today that are easy to work with and get you great results.

Are you considering to apply the Klasse Twins on the new BMW you are getting soon?
And what is the most you want out of the protection product you are going to use?
You have the water behavior that just not the beading but they useally have a great self cleaning ability from it. The looks from it and the user friendly application and wipe off residue. Then if you want the longest durability from it. Some has most of these things and some are not bad either but a notch or 2 lower in performance. So it's hard to say that product is the best. But that product is the best for me and another one can be best for you.

Are comfortable with DIY things. And have you a polisher or have used one. Why I ask is cause you can get the products on AGO and do it your self for the cost of what the dealership is offering you. Sure I think that the ceramic coating they want you to buy is the Gtechnic Crystal Serum Ultra. Which is their top offering for the proffessional certified installers. But if you go with this make sure which of the Gtechnic ceramic coating you are buying. You can buy Gtechnic Crystal Serum Light here on AGO. So at least it's not a snake oil they offer you. Depending on the size of your BMW the CSL cost $70 or $100 for the coating. Then comes a lot of products with it like polisher, mf towels, polish, panel prep product and a few things more for maintance and such. So I don't think that you get up to $2000. And you will get at least over 2 years longevity from it. They claim 3-5 years but at coming up to those years the nature and the daily use does so you going to think it's worth to remove it and reapply a new coating. Between 2-3 years with very good maintance is possible to get. The prep to apply a coating is a couple of steps extra and other than that they have been more easy to apply.

Then you have the coating lite range of products. Where you reapply them every year. And is more forgiving to apply. A sealant is useally around every 6 months you get from them before reapply them. Then it's just what caught your interest which way and product to go with. And if you thinking it's as a therapy you might find it fun to DIY. That kind of coating they are offering you with maintance every year. The only thing you do is to wash with a car soap that leaves nothing behind and dry the car and done. They don't want you to experiment with products that can change the looks a little. So it's pretty basic washing if you pro coating.

Hope it helps you a little. And keep asking questions and read through threads and articles by Mike Phillips. And you will quickly getting the hang of the basics.

/ Tony
 
Thanks, Tony.

I'm pretty comfortable with DIY. I have a Porter Cable 7424xp polisher, which I've used before with the Klasse products. I though never found the Klasse products particularity hard to apply--except for the first time I ever applied them by hand. That was rough--hence the polisher purchase.

I was/am considering applying the Klasse twins after doing paint correction on my new BMW. It's a X7, so it's a big SUV. Lots of square footage. That said, if I'm going to the trouble of cleaning/claying/polishing the beast, I want to put on the best product to protect my hard work.
 
Glossybimmer said:
Thanks, Tony.

I'm pretty comfortable with DIY. I have a Porter Cable 7424xp polisher, which I've used before with the Klasse products. I though never found the Klasse products particularity hard to apply--except for the first time I ever applied them by hand. That was rough--hence the polisher purchase.

I was/am considering applying the Klasse twins after doing paint correction on my new BMW. It's a X7, so it's a big SUV. Lots of square footage. That said, if I'm going to the trouble of cleaning/claying/polishing the beast, I want to put on the best product to protect my hard work.
Click to expand...

Three words to help you out..Read, Read, Read
There are a ton of videos on Youtube and even manufactures web sites. It's not rocket science.
 
Rsurfer said:
Three words to help you out..Read, Read, Read
There are a ton of videos on Youtube and even manufactures web sites. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Rsurfer. I have read a lot. If I were going to go with a ceramic, based on what I've read, I'd go with the Cquartz UK 3.0 with the Gliss overlay. I've watched videos on how to apply it, read reviews, and understand what the product claims to do.

HOWEVER, as much as I've read, I can't seem to find anything directly comparing the actual effectiveness of the older school acrylic sealants vs. the new school ceramics. Much of what I've read is just anecdotal.

By posting, I was hoping to take advantage of the actual experiences of the members here, not just rely on manufacturer hype.
 
Glossybimmer said:
Thanks, Rsurfer. I have read a lot. If I were going to go with a ceramic, based on what I've read, I'd go with the Cquartz UK 3.0 with the Gliss overlay. I've watched videos on how to apply it, read reviews, and understand what the product claims to do.

HOWEVER, as much as I've read, I can't seem to find anything directly comparing the actual effectiveness of the older school acrylic sealants vs. the new school ceramics. Much of what I've read is just anecdotal.

By posting, I was hoping to take advantage of the actual experiences of the members here, not just rely on manufacturer hype.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, ceramic coatings can't be beat for durability, chemical resistance, ease of cleaning and gloss. If you had a garage queen that you enjoy cleaning and waxing every week end, then maybe a ceramic coating may not be for you.
 
Glossybimmer said:
1. Years ago, I used to use Klasse AIO
and SG, and got great results, but I
don't see a ton of people using the
Klasse products anymore.

Is this because some of the new sealants
are substantially better? If so, is there a
consensus "best sealant" at the moment?

2. I've got a brand new BMW coming and
the dealer is trying to sell me on a ceramic
coating. Is this REALLY something that I
should consider?

The dealer is suggesting Gtechniq...for about
$2,000 plus $600 per year maintenance.
This seems insane to me.
Click to expand...
1.) Occasionally, I will use the Klasse Twins.
They are still a very effective combo, IMO.

{As to a consensus best Sealant: probably
ain’t gonna happen here on this forum. :)}

•A few of my other favorite Sealants are:
-Finish Kare 1000P
-Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
-Meguiar’s M21; M26; Ultimate Wax
-3M Perfect-It Show Car
-Pinnacle Signature Series II
__________________________________

2.) Whether a Ceramic Coating is in
your vehicle’s foreseeable future, or not...
allowing the stealership to partake in any
stage of its application is NOT something
that you should ever consider, IMO.

If you’re not comfortable in applying Ceramic
Coatings there probably are members of this
forum that are in close enough proximity to
where you can personally reach out for their
assistance for doing so.


Bob
 
Glossybimmer said:
2. I've got a brand new BMW coming and the dealer is trying to sell me on a ceramic coating. Is this REALLY something that I should consider? The dealer is suggesting Gtechniq...for about $2,000 plus $600 per year maintenance. This seems insane to me.
Click to expand...


Wow!

I need to charge more. Lots of profit there.


Check out the first link in the list of articles I've written on the topic of Ceramic Coatings. There is a TON of how-to info in the article and it applies, (no pun intended), to ANY brand of coating you can purchase and "install" yourself.


Ceramic Paint Coating How-To Articles by Mike Phillips



:)
 
Rsurfer said:
Three words to help you out..Read, Read, Read
There are a ton of videos on Youtube and even manufactures web sites. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

It's not rocket science, but it IS head-spinning for a new guy.

And yes! Read, read, and watch Mike P's videos.
 
Glossybimmer said:
Thanks, Rsurfer. I have read a lot. If I were going to go with a ceramic, based on what I've read, I'd go with the Cquartz UK 3.0 with the Gliss overlay. I've watched videos on how to apply it, read reviews, and understand what the product claims to do.

HOWEVER, as much as I've read, I can't seem to find anything directly comparing the actual effectiveness of the older school acrylic sealants vs. the new school ceramics. Much of what I've read is just anecdotal.

By posting, I was hoping to take advantage of the actual experiences of the members here, not just rely on manufacturer hype.
Click to expand...

Awesome that you have a polisher and know your way around it. Even a new vehical benefit from polishing when you get it. Some defects can be from the manufactures of the vehical. And most are from the dealership and their washing while sitting on the lot. My recommendation from seeing some extreme examples what the dealership can do to a new vehical. Is to stand up to getting it without any washing or anything done to it. Then you have the your nice new BMW X7 in the condition from the factory and that's useally okay. Inspect the paint and see if you need to be spot polishing some. Then do a thorough decon with an iron remover you will be amazed how much of iron particals and industrial fallout on the paint it can have. Especially if it where transported by train. Then clay it and with a big SUV I would look into a synthetic clay mitt or clay towel. And the fun begins with polishing the paint to a high gloss and awesome reflections. The polishing is where you get the paint stand out from the rest of the DD.

If you don't already have it so get a 5" backing plate to your XP polisher. Pads enough to polishing a whole vehical is quite many of them to have them leaving you with even results and also so they don't get saturated and wears down much faster. Look at the polishing work Mike Phillips has done cause he takes a picture afterwards which products he used and how many pads he also used. All from 6-10 pads is what normaly is used on a vehical. Thinner type of pads suits your XP polisher best to hold up the pad rotation from it. Which pads to get is always tricky if you don't get different colors of them. Useally it's depending on the defects on the paint and the hardness of the clearcoat. Generally BMW has hard paints. So I would go with a polishing pad in the brand and line of pads you buy. What pads do you have know?

The ceramic coatings a durability that is far longer than any sealants. The ease of washing it and maintain it is also very great. And when looking at the chemical resistance it's also many notches over a sealant. This I useally transfer to an awesome protection from what the nature hit your vehical with. So are you interested to try out the CQUK 3.0 and Gliss combo I would go with it.

And second again it's to read read read LOL. I think that you will be very satisfied a ceramic coating like Carpro CQUK and Gliss on your X7. If you are methodical and follow the instructions and do the necessary prep work. It's not harder than apply a sealant or a wax. Great lighting is a good thing to have. To check out of high spots. If you take care of the high spots during the weekend or the next days. They are easly corrected and you can reapply the coating.
 
Thank you everyone for the replies.

There are A LOT of products out there and I appreciate the advice. I decided I will try applying cquartz uk 3.0 with a gliss top coat.

new questions:

1. Are there any unique peculiarities about BMW paint i.e., (does it tend to be softer or harder, generally, how thick is the clear coat, etc.)

2. To prep for the ceramic, I plan to wash and clay the car, then use the Chemical Guys V36/38 with the orange hex pad. Does that sound like a good plan? Too aggressive?

3. After I do all this, would my normal maintenance involve just washing the car and applying a spray wax (like the Wolfgang Fuzion Spray wax), or would be better off applying another product (like the Klasse seal or AIO) via the DA buffer, or would I be better served by a product like reload?
 
Glossybimmer said:
then use the Chemical Guys V36/38 with the orange hex pad. Does that sound like a good plan? Too aggressive?
Click to expand...


I would read more.


Your new here. Two of the topics I type the most about are the words,

1: Abrasive technology

2: Touch


First people join this forum to learn how to remove swirls and scratches, for this you're going to need GREAT abrasive technology.


After they get their car looking perfect, then they learn to keep it that way, it all comes down to how you TOUCH the paint.



I love this article because the picture and what I wrote makes my case.


Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint


And this one explains about touching. Real simple stuff but in my experience, most people don't get it the simple stuff and take things that should be simple an turn them into Rocket Science

How long will a ceramic coating last on my car?




Try to find a single articled like either of the above on a Facebook group.



:laughing:
 
Thanks Mike.

I actually read both of those articles.

I should have added that I bought a pressure washer and foam attachment so as to minimize the amount of hands on my car during washing.


And, as far as the paint correction is concerned, I was planning on doing a test square, starting with the orange hex pad and the V38 compound. Then I was going to inspect with a high power light. If that did not suffice, I was planning on using the V36. My hesitation is, based on my reading, if the orange hex pad is too aggressive as a starting point. I was not able to find a clear answer on this.

One other question I had though after reading was what a wet film actually looks like. I can visualize what the product looks like dry, but does "wet film" simply mean that there is still some sheen to the product or is it more particular than that?
 
Dump the CC polishes, they not worth much more than the bottles they are put it. In defense of CC, they do make some good products and polishes are not one of them.

Since its a new car and you will be applying CQuartz UK3.0..decontaminate, polish with Car Pro's Gloss Pad and Essence. This should be enough to remove any minor marring, again to a test spot first.
 
Glossybimmer said:
You mean the Chemical Guys V line of polishes? Dump those?

Would you suggest the Wolfgang or Pinnacle?

Wolfgang 8 oz. Swirl Remover Combo, Wolfgang polishes, total swirl remover, finishing glaze, machine glaze

Pinnacle 8 oz. Swirl Remover Combo
Click to expand...
If you do decide to change up polishes, WG and Pinnacle are very similar and very effective (albeit pricey, but get the combos on a 25% sale). I tend to think Pinnacle stays wet longer, but could be that my WG is just old. This is nitpicking though, they’re both very good.
 
Glossybimmer said:
Thank you everyone for the replies.

There are A LOT of products out there and I appreciate the advice. I decided I will try applying cquartz uk 3.0 with a gliss top coat.

new questions:

1. Are there any unique peculiarities about BMW paint i.e., (does it tend to be softer or harder, generally, how thick is the clear coat, etc.)

2. To prep for the ceramic, I plan to wash and clay the car, then use the Chemical Guys V36/38 with the orange hex pad. Does that sound like a good plan? Too aggressive?

3. After I do all this, would my normal maintenance involve just washing the car and applying a spray wax (like the Wolfgang Fuzion Spray wax), or would be better off applying another product (like the Klasse seal or AIO) via the DA buffer, or would I be better served by a product like reload?
Click to expand...

1. BMW paints is useally on the hard side of hardness of the clearcoat. And for being an oem paint you have a good amount of the clearcoat. This don't gets you to be careless as all oem paints are thin. So the least aggressive combo is still something that you always takes in mind.

2. Use an iron remover and then clay. It's hard to say how a pad will work on a specific paint. But the CG Hex-logic Orange Foam Pad is the light compounding pad so it's very aggressive in it's nature to finish with.

Here are the aggressiveness of the CG Hex-logic pads

Yellow-Heavy Cutting Pad
Orange-Medium-Heavy Cutting Pad
Green-Heavy Polishing Pad
White – Medium -Light Polishing Pad
Blue – Glaze & Cleaner Foam Pad
Black- Finishing Foam
Red – Perfection Pad Ultra Fine Finishing Pad

So the pad I think could be too aggressive. The V36 and V38 is in the right range of finishing polish/ polish. But they use an old and not that great of abrasive technology. So for getting the best results I would look for another brand. The Carpro Essence is a great choice for getting a primer layer for the cquarts coatings. My favorite is Sonax EX 04-06 or Sonax Perfect Finish for finishing polishing. Adjust with the pad aggressiveness to get the desired results. The pads I would look into get a thin pad as Lake Country and Meguiars and Griots Garage BOSS pads has great options of useing. This makes a big difference to keeping the pad spinning and a great polishing experience.
You also want to get a panel prep wipe product like Carpro Eraser. To use after the polishing to remove polishing oils that can mess up with the coatings bonding to the paint. And don't skip this stage as it's important to be doing. That said the Carpro Essence is a primer polish and these useally has the benefit that you don't need to be useing a panel prep wipe product before application of the coating. This is if you have the time to after you have wiped off the Essence to let it sit to the next day or for a minimum of 3 hours so the solvents left can evaporate. Some does use a panel wipe product so they ensures there is not anything left. But it's optional to do.

3. Now when you have done all of the hard work. You want to maintain the crazy water behavior and self cleaning ability from the CQUK and Gliss combo. Gliss is getting you to the extreme of this. So useing a car soap that leaves glossenhancer or protection behind will degrade this great behavior you want to maintain. My recommend is to get the Carpro Reset car soap and be thorough when you dilute it to 1:500. This will maintain and keep your coating not to clogg at an awesome way. Trust me it's worth the extra bucks for Reset. If you want to be getting some little extra or use as a drying aid or as a waterless wash or rinseless wash get the Carpro EcH2O. Dilute it to 1:20 for a QD and drying aid. Later as in many months later on and you see a degrade in the behavior from the coating. Carpro Elixir or any other high quality and high performance topper will be fine to use. I say it again it's not many products that will be doing any extra of the performance from Gliss while it's on it's best. So many products will just be degrade the performance from Gliss. EcH2O works in synergy with the Gliss. Reload is not necessary until later on when you need to be topping it. You can use other products without the risk of takeing the Gliss and CQUK. But it will be that product that gives you the performance from then on and masking the performance from Gliss.
 
Thanks so much, SWETM. Are the Lake County pads compatible with the porter cable 7424xp without buying any sort of adapter plate?
 
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