New paint - should I be concerned? Can I fix this?

Cricket

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Hello, and thank you, Mike, and everyone else for all you share on here and in videos -

I've read loads of articles and watched the videos, am reading your book, and have practiced on cars we have that "don't matter" or are for parts, and so far, pretty good.

I recently found a good deal on a '99 Miata with 200K miles - runs great, had serious road rash and severe clear coat failure across the hood. The deck lid was also wrinkled mildly.

My Questions:
I've attached a photo composite of the hood, showing tiny (really tiny) insect tracks. Some have a slight depression around them with a slight ridge around the depression. There are about 5 instances of this on the hood only, and then there are 4 or so tiny pinprick dimples or depressions in the clear coat.

1) 2-stage Emerald Mica metallic 18J paint. '99 Miata MX-5: Can these blemishes be fixed with a DA polisher properly? Or is repainting required?
Is this something "worth worrying about" when yes, I DO care how the car looks, I'm a visual person, an artist and photographer, so things like this jump out at me.
Will they be "noticeable" by others, say at an auto-related gathering?

2) This is the 2nd time the hood has been painted in the past month. The person doing the paint is very particular, he's affordable for me compared to those who do a lot of insurance paint and body work, and HE is the one who told me straight up that the hood would have to be repainted after the first time. He had to attend to emergency personal business while my car was with him, and his help painted the hood, leaving some slightly lighter areas on the corners/edges. He also repainted a front fender and a rear fender due to very minor issues that were below the clear. I didn't have to ask him, he just did it, and I was very happy about that and respect his decision without having to be asked. And yes, I noticed all three panels had issues, especially the hood.

3) HE is the one who brought these insect tracks to my attention on the phone before I came to get the car. It was dark and rainy when I picked it up, he said take it home, look at it in the sunlight, let him know. I know he isn't excited to paint the hood _again_ (3rd time), neither am I, but then, DOWN THE ROAD, am I going to regret not having this done right? Is this something that anyone with some experience (or me, after I practice more, and so far, the Intrepid is looking great, including doing some wet-sanding on scratches)

4) His business is paint, body, and mechanical work. He's meticulous and has vintage cars, muscle cars, etc there having paint/body work done, BUT he does not have a state-of-the-art paint booth with the downdraft and all that. It is completely enclosed. He was straight up about that, and I knew it when I first visited his shop. He doesn't do the careful jeweling/wetsanding etc - the paint has swirls throughout that I can see when I use a bright flash on it. Otherwise, it looks tremendous. And, you can't tell the deck lid was ever damaged!

The three examples in the photo are the worst ones, and the yellow tape is 3/4" wide. The photo is way smaller after uploading it than I made it, so if you can't see it well enough, I'll upload them as separate images.

Thank you, Mike, and anyone else with opinions on any or all of my questions.

~Cricket :)
 
Here's the the 3rd example, with and without flash. Also, Why are there so many white dots with the flash? These are not visible otherwise.
Thanks!
Cricket :)
 
From the pictures it looks like that might be "fisheye". It's an issue caused by not having the painted surface completely clean of everything and ready for paint. Usually the defect is because some sort of oil or silicone residue exists on the panel when it is painted.

I could be wrong but from the pics that's what it seems to me. Some bigger pictures might help as you suggested.
 
The pictures are almost too zoomed in for me to really see what the issue is.

Me being a painter, wouldn't let it leave the shop like that. But I understand his environment isn't optimal for painting.

Maybe another picture or two, a bit further out to really see what we're looking at.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
From the pictures, and bigger pictures would make it easier to see what's going on, but from the pictures you shared, the white dots look like missing paint?

If this is the case, then buffing on them won't add paint.

Looks like you either need to repaint or apply touch-up paint.



:)
 
Thank you very much! He claimed they were insects, but it seems perhaps he didn't actually SEE them. Bugs in paint in my experience are stuck there, they can't leave, and they leave a mess. The dots are all in either a cluster like these, or singular, with a couple double dots.

I'll post larger pics tomorrow morning, rather than putting them in a collage. And I'll post some from further away.

Fwiw, his IS willing to repaint, I just don't know what will happen "next time". Looking at the car today in the sun, I was discouraged. You have to look for them, but there they are, plain as day, if you are close enough. One is right on the center toward the front of the hood.

Thank you SO much! :)
 
"Bug tracks", that's a new one for me. :dunno: Can't really tell from your photos. Try resizing them to 800 x 600 and uploading them HERE to the AG site. AG allows forum members to upload as many photos as the like, for FREE as long as you're a forum member. Makes it much easier to link in threads, and makes sure that down the road the photo is always there, rather than one day a blank box or an 'X' just showing up. ;)

If he's willing to repaint it, (again) then I'd surely take him up on it. Whether it's 'bug tracks', fisheye, solvent popping, or whatever. If you can see it now, you'll see it even more down the road. Fix it while you can, then hopefully after it cures you'll be able to polish it down to a perfect finish. ;) :props:
 
Thank you -- the first image is 387x916 pixels. 72dpi. I did upload them here on the AG site. Don't know why they appear so small once uploaded. I noticed that when I uploaded it. I shot them with my DSLR.

I'll upload new photos showing these issues.

Meanwhile, I shot these earlier today.

Note -- I see that regardless the size I set, they are automatically reduced, with a max size allowance of 640x480. Maybe it's a situation of number of posts made by a member - I used to moderate a forum and image size allowance was increased after a minimum number of posts was met.
 
This is one set of white dots. Close up, plus further back to show relative size on the hood of the car. They look like tiny pin pricks - they sink in and are white. The camera flash, when used, shows lots of white dots, but the ones that can be seen while examining the paint are sunk in like pin pricks, and are circled in yellow. I shot these tonight since it's easier to see them in the dark or shade.
 
Another example - close up and distance for relative size.
I'll get better close-ups tomorrow.

Thanks - :)
 
I have a lot of photos with updates which I'll post later. Weather and yet another repaint to fix the "bug tracks" (fish eye) and a few other paint mistakes have taken a lot of time.

Now that there's some warmer weather, I can once again work on fixing all the marks left from the compounding / buffing by the paint shop. It's going decently well.

Problem: When they repainted a rear quarter panel, the perfectly good decklid received a long drip of what appears to be clearcoat. I've got all the stages of photos, and have wet sanded with 2500 and 3000 foam-backed with very stiff block, and it's not noticeable at all in the shade, it feels flat, looked 98-100% flat after the final sanding, buffed clear and shiny, no damage to the clear. I put the car in the sunlight, and from certain angles I can easily see the entire run, about 16" long, as though they had the trunk open and then dripped clear down on side, about 1/4" wide. I've chosen to try to fix this myself to they don't screw something else up that was perfectly good. Photos to document what was there, how I have tried to fix it so far, etc.

Question: Is this run "dissolved" INTO the cured clearcoat, and "unfixable"? The decklid was painted a 2nd time in October (first time in September). I will take the car back (fourth time) if necessary, but if I can fix it myself, I'd rather. Something else gets messed up each time it goes back. It's not the shop owner - who has had serious health problems, and painted it, but doesn't do any of the rotary or block sanding, compounding, or buffing. It's his hired help. The do not speak English, so I cannot discuss anything with them.

Thank you so much, and I will post updated photos soon - as I'm documenting the damages: before, in process of fixing, and after.
 
Hard to say what the answer is to the run/sag question you asked except to say that you can only fix what's on the surface.

Here's how I take care of runs and sags...

How to use Meguiar's Unigrit Sanding Blocks to remove runs and dirt nibs in paint



How to remove a run or paint sag
To remove a run, you want to use the side of the block and only sand on top of the run. If the run is thick, you can place tape on the sides of the run to prevent you from sanding on surrounding paint while knocking down the run. At some point you'll have to remove the tape and at this point focus on the task at hand and hold the block in such a way as to only sand on the high points of the run.

MegsSandingBlock000.jpg


MegsSandingBlock001.jpg


MegsSandingBlock002.jpg





Back and forth direction
Holding the Unigrit Sanding Block firmly, use a fast back and forth motion to sand the run down flat.
MegsSandingBlock003.jpg



Use fingers as a guide
On the panel below, the run was just below a raised body line. The run was too close to the raised body line to use tape to cover the body line so instead I placed my fingers on the raised body line and used my fingernails as a guide or bumper to prevent my hand motion from running the sanding block over the paint on the raised body line.

MegsSandingBlock004.jpg




Here I've sanded just a little and then stopped to take this picture as the sanding marks have made the run easier to see and capture on film.
MegsSandingBlock005.jpg



The section above was sanded flat and then the sanding marks were buffed out using a compound and a wool pad on a rotary buffer. Next I continued to move down the fender sanding the run flat.
MegsSandingBlock006.jpg



After the majority of the run has been sanded flat I re-sanded the entire area using a Meguiar's 3" #3000 Unigrit foam backed sanding disc on a Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher to refine the sanding marks left by the Unigrit Sanding Block to a more shallow depth to make removing faster and easier and without generating as much heat.
MegsSandingBlock007.jpg



Here's another run sanded flat using a Unigrit Sanding Block
MegsSandingBlock008.jpg




:)
 
Thank you Mike! :) You're an awesome thorough teacher with wonderful demonstration photos.

TL;DR: After the shop owner sees it and the photos later this week, I hope he'll decide I should continue fixing it, and if it cannot be fixed, then he'll repaint it. BTW, he said he put 4 coats of clear on it. An auto paint supply store owner looked at it and commented that it had a LOT of clear on it. He has a paint thickness gauge (paint meter) so I'll have him check it before I do more with it. The paint is metallic -- Emerald Mica.

Where I'm at now:

*** Mike, I had done exactly as you showed above, except I don't have unigrit sanding blocks and I explain below a modification I used to keep the sandpaper super flat and hard-surface, plus I don't use a rotary and don't have one. (I have read, watched, and downloaded a lot of your instruction) I have 3M padded back 3000 grit paper - and 3000 grit on down, non-padded back.
I used water with the non-padded sandpaper originally on a hard rubber sanding block, got the run down as much as I dared, with the sides taped (I promise I'll try to get pics up late tomorrow afternoon) and using finger prints to see the run, then I tried 2500 and 3000 grit wrapped tightly around a small rectangular block of polished, absolutely flat, forged steel, used oil instead of water, and that took it down a little more without touching the low areas. I polished with the DA and M205 w/4" green hex-logic pad after each sanding - got it flat to where I simply could NOT see the run BEFORE polishing, sanded with water: very lightly 2000, then 2500, and then the foam-backed 3000, wiped dry with detail juice, looked flat with no low areas, but when I polished it, I can see it again, all 18", both sides and the rounded end of the drip. Definitely looks like the deck lid was up and they dripped cc at the end of it and it ran straight toward the hardtop bolts. It appears flat, but the whole run is visible. It was fine before the 3rd trip back to the paint shop in December, and the deck lid wan't being repainted. :( I'm afraid to take anymore off until I see the shop-owner. I haven't sanded through the clearcoat, but even though I have excellent photo documentation, I don't want to risk compromising getting it done right. He'll repaint it, but what the heck are they gong to mess up next?? This car was painted in late September the first time, then the hood and three quarter panels were repainted in October, then lo and behold, they screwed up the hood again (22+ fish-eyes "bug tracks"), the rear quarter panel wheel well edge peeled due to bad taping/painting, and a front quarter panel had fish-eyes. These panels were repainted just before Christmas closing. Shop owner has been a jewel, wants it done right, and has had unexpected serious health problems - he wants this to be as good as he promised it would be, but his help does the prepping, sanding, compounding, buffing.... They don't speak English and my Spanish is not body shop / paint shop Spanish; I've no idea how the owner trains them - I haven't heard him speak any Spanish. Beautiful wall photos of classic cars he's painted, plus his personal cars at his business do not equal same work by the help who may not have been there very long or been properly trained/experienced. His customer recommendations were excellent, but their cars weren't painted within the past couple three months.... My brother's hobby paint booth in his 4-car garage is cleaner and better-sealed against contamination.

Thank you for the unigrit sanding blocks tip! I'll have to get some!
 
Thank you Mike! :) You're an awesome thorough teacher with wonderful demonstration photos.


Thank you.


I appreciate the kind words. I know there are a lot of detailing discussion forums on the Internet and I think the best way to separate AutogeekOnline from the rest is to offer the best in customer service and that includes how-to articles with good info and pictures that don't disappear down the road because they're hosted on Photobucket.


For what it's worth...

It's hard to achieve perfection with a paint job. It can drive you nuts. Then when you reach perfection, you'll drive the car and "something" will happen and now you're back to going nuts.

One reason I choose to drive a truck is because it's a truck. Generally speaking, most people won't have as high of standards for perfection when it comes to a truck as they might when it comes to a Corvette.

I use my truck. It gets dirty, it gets scratched, I fix it but I don't aim for perfection. Mostly I aim for clean and shiny and that works for me and I don't go crazy trying to impress other people with a perfect truck.

That said, even though it's a few years old an far from perfect, it's still makes me happy... and that's what I like about "my" truck.



There are a few chips in the paint, not rock chips just wear-n-tear type chips. But I'm not going paint my truck to make them go away.

2014_Stingray_027.jpg




:)
 
Over the past ten years, Mike and I have had many "conversations" related to perfectionism, repaints and detailing. The last one was just a few months ago when I was looking for perfection in a hood (2012 Dodge Ram) repaint done by a state of the art body shop with excellent techs. I ended up with a bit of "dieback" in the clear coat. The shop guarantees customer satisfaction and will repaint it if I choose to have it done. In my quest for perfection, I did a bit of sanding and buffing and put a very small burn through in the the clear coat. Something only I can see if I look very closely. For now Meguiar's Ultimate Wax is doing an excellent job of hiding the burn and protecting the finish. I'll have a repaint when/if needed. Every time you have paint work done you are taking a big chance with something more going wrong from even the best of shops. Based on your description of your shop and its employees, you are not going to get perfection. Your Miata is 15 years old and has 200k miles on it. I suggest that you simply drive it and enjoy it.
 
what part of GA? u need to find one our members here? Who is it in Atlanta?? im having a CRS day.
 
Over the past ten years, Mike and I have had many "conversations" related to perfectionism, repaints and detailing. The last one was just a few months ago when I was looking for perfection in a hood (2012 Dodge Ram) repaint done by a state of the art body shop with excellent techs. I ended up with a bit of "dieback" in the clear coat. The shop guarantees customer satisfaction and will repaint it if I choose to have it done. In my quest for perfection, I did a bit of sanding and buffing and put a very small burn through in the the clear coat. Something only I can see if I look very closely. For now Meguiar's Ultimate Wax is doing an excellent job of hiding the burn and protecting the finish. I'll have a repaint when/if needed. Every time you have paint work done you are taking a big chance with something more going wrong from even the best of shops. Based on your description of your shop and its employees, you are not going to get perfection. Your Miata is 15 years old and has 200k miles on it. I suggest that you simply drive it and enjoy it.

Thank you, it's supportive to hear that this isn't a rare isolated case of a reputable business producing less than good paint outcome.

I want to explain/clarify a few things, to anyone following this who is interested:

1) It's a Paint, Body, and Automotive Repair facility. It's not a "custom paint" or "hand finished jeweled paint", "show car quality" paint restoration place, although they've produced some nice results on muscle cars and vintage cars over the years. I knew that going it, and wasn't willing to pay the price it would cost to go to a 'custom show car' place. However, we did discuss at length what he could do, and what I'd pay for, and what I should expect. He knew I didn't want substandard paint or body work. His guys did amazing body work - I visited and photographed (at his request) along the say - it was taken down to the metal and smoother than silk - every ding, the few very small dents, the larger dent in the rear deck lid, all perfectly done.

2) 200K and 15 years old: Yep, he and a couple other paint/body shops wondered why I wanted to invest in having it painted and the bodywork done. Good point, from them and from you. It's a personal desire, and I want to do as much of the work as I can, learning along the way, using what I already know and modifying it as necessary, and that includes mechanical work to a certain extent, and cosmetic and mechanical preservation/maintenance afterwards.
That said, and regardless what "makes sense", when a service is paid for, one should get what the agreement or contract or description promised. If *I* ding it, or it's in an accident, I'll get over it - something's gonna happen. But when paying for something to begin with, it should be done right. Imagine having a car with perfect paint, polished, waxed, and someone is admiring it, asking who did the work, and then there's this 18" run on the top of the decklid, absolutely visible in most light, and the next comment is, "What's up with that? You paid for that? They didn't correct it?" I doubt the owner even saw the run. It was dark when the car was finished *outdoors*, night before their December holiday began. I was there and I didn't see it. When I take it back, he'll want to get it right - and I'd like to be able to promote his shop, thus I will not name it. He's an honest person and does very good work - he is very particular. In fact, the first time I drove it back, before I could even say anything, he walked out, saw the hood, and said, "This will have to be repainted! It's too thin. The color doesn't match!" (He'd been in the hospital when it was finished the first time) This just happens to be a nightmare for him due to factors that had nothing to do with this car or me. He's not once balked at repainting - but I know that he won't want to have to redo yet another panel anymore than I do.

I found this car last August - Solid interior in very good condition, solid undercarriage, zero rust anywhere, paint was terrible - extreme roadrash, clear coat failure across the hood, minor dings and scratches, very minor rear-end decklid collision. Clean engine, but no routine preventive work other than plugs and oil changes. No hard top, but my husband had an extra red hard top. Two owners - parents and daughter - the mileage was added quickly the past three years, driving from her southern college to her parents' southern home.

My husband has a '90 red Miata (his DD), two retired '83ish Rabbit GTIs, a Calloway Turbo Rabbit in beautiful condition, a roller Rabbit GTI (no engine or drivetrain), beautiful body, he picked up a year ago from a hobby race car builder who had to quit, and a Jetta (Wolfsburg). He's a mechanical engineer who used to work at GM, now with the C-130's at LM Marietta. He loves working on cars - the mechanics. He doesn't really care that his Miata needs some serious and very doable cosmetic work. I'll do it for him after I finish this. He's already amazed that the dull door of his Miata now shines like the rest. It was repainted single-stage before he bought it, and was evenly oxidized to a dull finish. I polished it up beautifully in 1/2 hour, after practicing on the old retired Rabbit - single stage paint, and then working on my 2-stage Intrepid. Anyhow, he is happy to do all the engine work on my car to bring it up to "safe to take on a long trip" - it's all listed in my "garage" of this forum.

So why this car? I haven't had a "fun vehicle" in a long time -- I learned to drive with my brother's '64 GTO and my father's '54 Nash w/continental wheel (chartreuse and white). My brother drag raced and was a great teacher - my father made me drive without spilling the water in the cup on the floor!! Consequently, I could back down roads and parallel park a horse trailer when I had my truck. And I've always loved speed, be it my horse or cars. My most fun ride was likely my '99 red GMC 1-ton dually ext cab (2-door) LWB pickup truck - 454 engine with a 410 rear end, added diamond plate running boards and chrome bed rails, came with diamond plate drop bumper, I loved that truck! I put 24K miles on it the first year.
My army son (Captain) and his wife autocross when they can, and my husband (of only a year, btw) autocrossed and taught autocross while in the AF (Major). My brother has a paint booth in his garage, and a few years ago he restored various muscle cars as a hobby, drove them awhile, sold them. He's kept his GTO; it has an attic full of car show trophies. If I were still in the Midwest, I'd have asked him to paint this car. He also does all his mechanical work. My father did all our mechanical work, and I was often his "helper".

So.... that's the rest of the story.... and I WILL post pics someday of the GTO, the Nash, my truck, and the paintwork documentary of this Miata.

For those who read all this - thanks -- I enjoy your stories and pics. :dblthumb2:

Cricket (Why Cricket? I wanted to change me name to Cricket when I was a kid (!!) and my horse's name was Cricket. BTW, she was a wild banged-up 2-yr-old when I found her.... and she was a beautifully voice-trained horse when I had to sell her.)
 
Cricket,

Quite a story. My wife would love a Miata convertible. However, we live in the country four miles to the nearest hard surfaced road so she drives a Tacoma 4X4. A nice Miata would need more than a bra on the hood and front of the fenders. By the way, her 2012 Tacoma with 75,000 miles on it has no road rash and only a couple of rock chips. Mike must be right, you might want to buy a truck.:)
 
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