Newbie advise on minimizing "paint dieback"

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tundraotto

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Hi- longtime lurker, first time poster.

I recently painted my daily driver 93 Toyota Pickup. 3 coats of filler primer, sanded to 400 grit, 3 coats of royal blue metallic, 1 coat of pearl intercoat and 3 coats of clear (last one as thick as I could get it). Paint looks great, but it has dulled quite a bit since I painted it 3 weeks ago. Now it has pretty severe dieback, reflection kind of looks like orange peel, but the surface feels smooth.
I would like your advice on what to do to minimize this. Its not a show car and I have a 4 small runs I will wetsand, but would rather not wetsand the whole truck. Its not a show piece, but I would like to have some serious shine with minimal orange peel effect.

I have:
7424xp
All of the 5.5" Chemical Guys Hex Logic pads
Meguiars 6.5 Yellow and Maroon pads
PC 6" Wool Bonnet
1000 & 2000 grit sandpaper
3M Perfect It 39060 compound
Meguiars M205
Turtle Wax Polishing Compound
3m Hand Glaze

I have never wetsanded or machine polished a vehicle before. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!
 
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What usually causes dieback is applying too wet, or too soon between coats. The reducers need to completely flash before the next coat is applied. Fast reducers are more likely to cause dieback because they trap the solvents under the paint.

If I apply 3 coats of clearcoat, I'm sure to give ample flash time before the 3rd coat. If the film build is thicker than recommended by the paint manufacturer, it can cause dieback. I usually follow the manufacturers directions, and dont usually have issues.

Your best bet is to wetsand the paint to open it, and let it outcast for a day or two, then try polishing.
I'd recommend a rotary polisher if you don't have one. A Porter cable will work,( probably taking 3 times longer) but you'd need to finish out with a minimum of 3000 grit sandpaper.

You will have to sand it either way, but it might not completely remove all the dieback, time is gonna be your friend, depending on temperature and humidity.

Me personally, I'd block sand with 600 grit wet, let it dry for a week, and respray the clearcoat.

Perform a test spot on a panel, and see if polishing will work before sanding the entire vehicle down, to make sure you're getting the results you want.

Hopefully this helps ya out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
It definitely looks like the basecoat was wet, when you began spraying the clear. Did you have adequate air flow?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
It was 65°F in the garage with the heaters running when I painted, it was 30°F outside. I am sure I did not have adequate airflow. I did extend flashtime (mfg called for 20min, I gave it 30min) and medium speed reducer. I dont have any solvent pop so I think the paint gassed off properly. I think the reason for the orange peel effect is the thickness of the clear coat (especially the last coat).

I really dont want to sand the whole truck....any recommendations on what to do with what I have on hand without resorting to complete sanding?
 
30 minutes probably still wasn't enough time at 65°. I usually like to spray at 75-80° and give a good 20 minutes flash time. The more layers you add, the longer they need to outgas. I'd have taken a lunch break between the basecoat and clearcoat if I was working 65° .



Maybe give a try just polishing a spot, see how it acts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
The 3m polish wont work well with a dual action polisher. The m205 will work, try it on a white pad, and see what kind of results you get.

The dieback is deep in the paint, and more than likely wont polish out. I've never been able to. I usually do as I described above, sand it, and let it outgas more. Then polish it.

Or you could give it more time, and see if warmer weather doesn't help it finish drying.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
Well dang it! Thanks for your help Ken - I knew I should have got M105 instead of the 3M....I may get a bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Compound and do that before the M205 and call it good enough......I dont want to mess up wetsanding or buffing and have to start all over. S&%# :(
 
ken tuep said:
The 3m polish wont work well with a dual action polisher.
Click to expand...

I agree, take a read-through this article...

For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions

Rotary_Buffer_Only_007.jpg


Rotary_Buffer_Only_008.jpg



Do read through the entire article by clicking the link I posted above as it explains the "why" part.




ken tuep said:
The m205 will work, try it on a white pad, and see what kind of results you get.
Click to expand...

I agree with Ken, give the M205 a try with a "polishing" foam pad, not cutting, not finishing.

Slow overlapping passes on the 6 setting, make sure you start out pushing firmly but mark your backing plate so you can see the pad rotating. Pad rotation of utmost importance when using a DA polisher.



ken tuep said:
The dieback is deep in the paint, and more than likely wont polish out. I've never been able to.
Click to expand...

Same here, in most cases the scratches you see in the dieback are under the clear and doing something to the topcoat surface won't affect what's visually under the clear coat. I always test though.

Here's a case of removing dieback...

Here's what Dieback or Shrinkback looks like in fresh paint


How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_001.jpg




This is a close up of the same area that I cropped out at 800 pixels wide but did not resize.

How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_002.jpg





Dieback - After

How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_027.jpg




Before and After

How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_028.jpg



Here's the hood after polishing and waxing...

How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_031.jpg


How_To_Remove_Orange_Peel_Without_Sanding_032.jpg




See all the pictures from this project as well as the products, pads and tools used to get these results by clicking the link below...


How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher






ken tuep said:
I usually do as I described above, sand it, and let it outgas more. Then polish it.
Click to expand...


I like this idea too but I would invest in some 3M #3000 Trizact or Meguiar's #3000 Unigrit and machine sand it.

It's faster and the buff out is SUPER easy.


:)
 
Ordered the 3M online and could not see the label....my own fault. I will try the M205 & white pad first as you suggested. Then see where that leaves me. Thank you both very much for your time & help.
 
You're welcome! There is lots of great information on this forum to help you with anything car detailing related. Keep us posted with the results.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online
 
Thanks for the Welcome and help again, - Beautiful Cadillac Mike! I bet that one will shine like a diamond! Another question - if this polishing wont work - I can get my hands on a buffer...
- Should I dampsand with the PC7424xp, a dewalt orbital sander or the buffer? I could use the buffer with the 3M Perfect it to remove the sanding marks and go from there.....maybe just do the larger flat areas?
- Would it be a problem to go with the M205 after the 3M 39060? or should I just get some M105 (have to order), or Meguiars Ultimate Compound?

Cheers
 
couple of close-ups. Now I am starting to second guess myself on it being dieback, or just too thick of coat(s) of clear?
 
Any suggestions on the first step(s) other than the M205/white hex logic? I spent so many hours on this I just dont want to make (more) rookie mistakes....
 
Well, I did the m205 with the white hexlogic and did see a great increase in the paint smoothness (baggies test). No improvement in the gloss (which was a disappointment), but a reasonable improvement in the "grainyness/peel effect" on the reflection of light. I did have a hard time gauging the proper time to work the compound on the paint at first. I think I will brave getting the m105 and a harder pad and see what happens next. Applied the 3m handglaze on the pc7424, and of course it didnt do much to the shine (should it?), but I guess since I cant wax its better than nothing....
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S68tmPBDbQU&feature=share]93 no-ride - YouTube[/video]

fuel pump went out, had to get towed home.....so a BIG flashlight is best I could do tonight.
 
tundraotto said:
I think I will brave getting the m105 and a harder pad and see what happens next.
Click to expand...

This product is a LOT more aggressive than the M205 but still very safe. Feel some between your fingers.

Do a section about the size of a 16" square microfiber towel. Watch my video on making a section pass

Show Car Garage Video: How-To do a "Section Pass" when Machine Polishing with a DA Polisher


And mark your backing plate,

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation



tundraotto said:
Applied the 3m handglaze on the pc7424, and of course it didnt do much to the shine (should it?), but I guess since I cant wax its better than nothing....
Click to expand...


It's a non-abrasive glaze that will fill or mask fine swirls. Probably won't improve what M205 can do.


:)
 
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