Newbie Question - Best 2006 MB Black (040) polish?

[Swiss_T]

Hello everyone. This is my first time really getting into asking questions on the forum. I used to just read and learn while I built up my skill set, but recently I've gotten stuck and don't know what to do or what I am doing wrong.

I have a 2006 black (040) Mercedes ML and I've reached a point where I cannot achieve the deep black natural look anymore.

I've tried different polishes and pad combos, but nothing seems to be getting that true black look. It looks fine under normal lighting, but when using LED spotlights I see, not regular swirls like you see on poorly washed cars, but micro swirls like you can get after compounding or using more aggressive products (thousands of little marks and a slight haze). I'd say I get 90% of the way to achieving a 99% perfect finish, but I'm stuck and it's bothering me.
**Can't go too hard on the cutting products anymore, clear coat levels are getting low in some areas** (found out the hard way)

I do want to note, this car has been my starter car, meaning I learnt how to drive in it, it went to college with me, its in grad school with me now, and it was my test subject when I was learning how to detail. I say this, because there are some damages to the paint that were detailing mistakes, but its all in the learning curve and I didn't have much else to practice on.

I would greatly appreciate any input that you have and what pad/product worked the best for you and wouldn't mind sharing with someone who just wants to bring back the glory of his car's paint, the way it should be.
I just really have run out of experimenting room and need to turn to professionals for advice.

Things I already have in my arsenal:
Griot's Garage - DA
Griot's fast finish microfiber pad
Meguiar's microfiber cutting pad
(I need to order new foam pads for it, so suggest any you want)
(Also need new polish. Previously used Chem Guys based on results seen in their videos, but I can't seem to replicate their results)


THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HELPS ME OUT!! :xyxthumbs:

 

[CCC4me]

I love the coincidental timing. I was going to recommend switching to a glaze at this point (given the low levels of clear) and two posts above yours is a 4 year old thread about Poorboy's Black Hole that got bumped today. You should read it!

 

[Swift]

Hello everyone. This is my first time really getting into asking questions on the forum. I used to just read and learn while I built up my skill set, but recently I've gotten stuck and don't know what to do or what I am doing wrong.

I have a 2006 black (040) Mercedes ML and I've reached a point where I cannot achieve the deep black natural look anymore.

I've tried different polishes and pad combos, but nothing seems to be getting that true black look. It looks fine under normal lighting, but when using LED spotlights I see, not regular swirls like you see on poorly washed cars, but micro swirls like you can get after compounding or using more aggressive products (thousands of little marks and a slight haze). I'd say I get 90% of the way to achieving a 99% perfect finish, but I'm stuck and it's bothering me.
**Can't go too hard on the cutting products anymore, clear coat levels are getting low in some areas** (found out the hard way)

I do want to note, this car has been my starter car, meaning I learnt how to drive in it, it went to college with me, its in grad school with me now, and it was my test subject when I was learning how to detail. I say this, because there are some damages to the paint that were detailing mistakes, but its all in the learning curve and I didn't have much else to practice on.

I would greatly appreciate any input that you have and what pad/product worked the best for you and wouldn't mind sharing with someone who just wants to bring back the glory of his car's paint, the way it should be.
I just really have run out of experimenting room and need to turn to professionals for advice.

Things I already have in my arsenal:
Griot's Garage - DA
Griot's fast finish microfiber pad
Meguiar's microfiber cutting pad
(I need to order new foam pads for it, so suggest any you want)
(Also need new polish. Previously used Chem Guys based on results seen in their videos, but I can't seem to replicate their results)


THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HELPS ME OUT!! :xyxthumbs:

If possible please post some pictures.

 

[Swiss_T]

I love the coincidental timing. I was going to recommend switching to a glaze at this point (given the low levels of clear) and two posts above yours is a 4 year old thread about Poorboy's Black Hole that got bumped today. You should read it!

Thanks for letting me know. I'll look into that thread and see what I find. I've just never used glaze before seeing how a lot of people have many different opinions towards it, so I tended to stick to the traditional polishes and waxes.

If possible please post some pictures.

Sure, I will as soon as I get a chance.

 

[Swiss_T]

If possible please post some pictures.

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Here is one that I took recently. You can see it right where the sun hits. First I thought is was glare, but it is actually little tiny swirls. (Sorry all my pics are taken with my iPhone, I don't have the professional camera set up like others do.)

I will try to get a close up in the garage later.

 

[brettS4]

Offhand I'd suggest either Menz SF4000 or WG Finishing Glaze (nearly identical product). The pad that seems to be a good combination with that product is the LC Hydrotech tangerine.

But based on your image, you might need to do a little more than just polishing. Maybe just one step more aggressive. Kinda hard to say.

Throw on some WG DGPS and beg, borrow or steal some Pinnacle Souveran. It looked amazing on my black A4.

 

[The Guz]

Maybe some Meguiar's M205 with a foam polishing pad.

 

[Charleston]

I see you mentioned the clear is getting low in some areas, how did you find this out?

What kind of towel are you using to remove polish/wax?

 

[Swiss_T]

Offhand I'd suggest either Menz SF4000 or WG Finishing Glaze (nearly identical product). The pad that seems to be a good combination with that product is the LC Hydrotech tangerine.

But based on your image, you might need to do a little more than just polishing. Maybe just one step more aggressive. Kinda hard to say.

Throw on some WG DGPS and beg, borrow or steal some Pinnacle Souveran. It looked amazing on my black A4.

It is kinda hard to tell, as pictures can't always show what the eye can see. I will try and get a better pic later.

Thanks for that suggestion though, I will look into that pad for sure.
I never tried the Menz product line, I never trusted myself to pick the right one. With me only doing my car I didn't want to end up buying a bottle of something that doesn't work for me. I like to research products a lot before trying them just to be safe, or know someone who's used them and have seen the results in person.
As far as the wax goes, I really like the results I'm getting from the Collinite 476 & 845 for now.
I still have JetSeal and M-Seal from CG. I am still working on finishing those, but I'll keep your suggestions in mind.

I do want to say though that I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Menz for a while now, because I know it's a ceramic clear coat product that comes from Germany, and I don't remember exactly where, but I've heard people mentioning that that is what Mercedes uses in the factories for paint corrections. Again, those might just be rumors, so don't quote me on that.

Maybe some Meguiar's M205 with a foam polishing pad.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've tried M205 with all types of pads from heavy cutting to ultra fine waxing and it just isn't doing it. I got improvements, but no "wow! it just came out of the spray booth" look. I'm not saying it's bad (still impresses the service guys at the dealer), but it's not perfect. With me being a little OCD about the condition of my car it really bothers me when I'm under a light that shows the flaws, like a LED light gas station. I like to try and get as close to perfect as possible.

 

[Swiss_T]

I see you mentioned the clear is getting low in some areas, how did you find this out?

What kind of towel are you using to remove polish/wax?

Unfortunately the hard way... It was on the curved edge of the rear door where the paint is even thinner to begin with, so the touch up paint had to come out... I managed to blend the paint well with a little wet sanding and polishing action, so only I know where the spot is and really have to point it out for others to see it. I'm just so glad it was on the door's edge and not somewhere really noticeable!
My guess is that it was due to the extensive compounding I had to do on that portion of the car when it got vandalized during my time in undergrad. Unfortunately, kids have no respect for the property of others and break anything nicer than theirs.

My towels are plush microfibers with the silk edges. They are either 530 or 600 g/m2, don't remember exactly.

 

[brettS4]

It definitely looks to me like you have some micro marring to eradicate. If M205 isn't finishing it out, I doubt SF4000 will do much better. I'd probably go to FG400 with a light cutting pad. But stay away from the areas you think are thin.

 

[Swiss_T]

It definitely looks to me like you have some micro marring to eradicate. If M205 isn't finishing it out, I doubt SF4000 will do much better. I'd probably go to FG400 with a light cutting pad. But stay away from the areas you think are thin.

Don't worry, I'm staying away from all edges on the car from now when using anything that has cut in it just to be safe. Don't want to end up having to go to a paint shop for a respray...
I think I'm going to place an order for a couple new pads and invest in some Menz products. It's about time I pull that trigger. I think I'll get both the FG and the SF, just to give it an all around good polish for the spring time.

I'll try to update with some pictures when the order comes in and I get around to working on the car.

Thanks for your help :xyxthumbs:

 

[slicksierra]

Sounds like typical softer black paint I had this on some resprayed panels on my black GMC Sierra. I found my savior in a blue lake country finishing pad, carpro reflect on speed 3-3.5 on my griots DA. That is glass like black if you work at it. Reflect has its own learning curve

 

[Swiss_T]

It definitely looks to me like you have some micro marring to eradicate. If M205 isn't finishing it out, I doubt SF4000 will do much better. I'd probably go to FG400 with a light cutting pad. But stay away from the areas you think are thin.

I decided to stay away from the FG400, just because it is the most aggressive compound that Menzerna makes. I don't want to risk cutting too much anymore, so I went for a less aggressive alternative.

Sounds like typical softer black paint I had this on some resprayed panels on my black GMC Sierra. I found my savior in a blue lake country finishing pad, carpro reflect on speed 3-3.5 on my griots DA. That is glass like black if you work at it. Reflect has its own learning curve

Thanks for the Input. Appreciate it.



To update everyone:

I went ahead and ordered some Menz products and new foam pads.
- Green and Blue LC CCS
- White and Blue LC Flat pads
- Menzerna SI1500
- Menzerna SF4500
- Took advantage of the SuperBowl Sale :dblthumb2:

I'm going to mix and match products and pads on test areas to see which process will give me the best results. Never tried the flat pads, but heard from somewhere that the CCS might keep abrasives in the grooves and cause slight swirling because the product may not break down evenly. We'll see what happens.

Thanks again for all the input!

 

[Velocitybts]

It definitely looks to me like you have some micro marring to eradicate. If M205 isn't finishing it out, I doubt SF4000 will do much better. I'd probably go to FG400 with a light cutting pad. But stay away from the areas you think are thin.

It appears you are have possibly the same issue I have in areas. I have the black paint so perfect (below thread) that directly shining a light on it or the sun you cannot see any scratches or micro marring. But..... if you tilt up the light at a angle and look really really close I have areas of what appears as micro marring. Not visible almost without a microscope though. Trick that worked for me to rid it of some of them was to use (1:8 mixtures of DI water and Rupes Diamond polish in a spray bottle) that I sprayed directly on the pad and used. Flex 3401 White pad. The yellow hybrid compressed too much to use properly with Diamond for me so went to a harder polishing pad and a really really light polish mix. Worked like a charm.

Menzerna FG400 works a ton better than the 1500, Just fyi. Much less dust and works longer.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/88465-2008-mercedes-e63-amg-black-paint-correction-long-write-up-heavy-pics.html

 

[Swiss_T]

Menzerna FG400 works a ton better than the 1500, Just fyi. Much less dust and works longer.

Thanks for the tip with the watered down polish! Might give that a try if all the new products don't work out to correct my paint the way I thought it would.

I just want to clarify why I did not choose to go with the FG400 this time. I know that it can be a fantastic product based on some of the threads here. However, it is listed as a compound on the Menz chart. I don't know how much more compounding my car can take after all thats happened to her (mentioned previously). I rather keep the clear that I have left in tact and use a more aggressive polish than a compound. My goal is clarity and depth, and I believe micro marring doesn't take a whole lot of cut to remove. I know it may not perfect all areas, but at least this way I can afford a compound correction later on when life happens and the paint gets to a point where it bugs me without having to get the car resprayed. Who knows, I may be completely wrong about how much I think FG400 really cuts, but without seeing its performance myself on a test spot that isn't my car, it's just too much of a gamble for me right now. Still appreciate the feedback though!

 

[brettS4]

SI1500 will probably work fine for you. And it's always best to use the least aggressive method possible.

The thing is, while FG400 can be more aggressive, it's cutting ability depends on the pad you use. If you use it on a heavy cutting pad, it'll knock out just about any defects. But if you use it with a light cutting or heavy polishing pad, it will be much less aggressive and can finish out even finer. It's simply more versatile than SI1500.

Years ago, I used to use SI1500 followed by FF3000. But I've found that I get much better results with FG400, sometimes followed by SF4000. Or sometimes just by itself. I would always have to follow SI1500 with a lighter polish.

But you should get good results with what you chose. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Swiss_T]

The thing is, while FG400 can be more aggressive, it's cutting ability depends on the pad you use. If you use it on a heavy cutting pad, it'll knock out just about any defects. But if you use it with a light cutting or heavy polishing pad, it will be much less aggressive and can finish out even finer. It's simply more versatile than SI1500.

But you should get good results with what you chose. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for sharing that awesome chart! Definitely explains the product range a lot better than the chart that's on the AG website currently.

I didn't know FG400 can act as so many products depending on the pad alone. Almost is an AIO by the looks of that chart. So again thanks for sharing that, helped me get a better understanding of Menz products.

I will definitely keep you posted on the progress :xyxthumbs:

 

[Swiss_T]

Just to add some imagery to some of the vandalism that my car underwent while having to live on the undergrad campus. This being the worst of the worst. One morning I woke up to a nice sight. A couple of (insert desired swear here) vandals decided to egg my car. I had a lot of fixing to do... Here's some improvement results to the original damage. Again, I'm no pro photographer, so please don't hate on the pic quality.






On the left: Original condition after wiping off the egg residue
On the right: Results after filler paint and compound/polish/seal

Needless to say I wasn't a happy camper that day.