No Rinses: Light Duty Only?

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weeble

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Hello,

I've started using ONR and I have some DP no rinse on the way, too. I just love the No Rinse thing so far, doubly so in water scarce Denver.

I'm wondering, though, if No Rinse products are appropriate for very, very, very dirty cars. Think 100 miles in heavy winter traffic in the mountains. As a former Minnesotan I felt I knew a thing or two about dirty winter cars caked in salt and what have you, but this mountain traffic crud is a whole 'nother level.

So the question is: is there a point on the clean/dirty continuum where a No Rinse shouldn't be used? If so, where do you draw the line?
 
I feel safe using ONR on my car up to the point mud is caked a car. If dirt is caked on your car then you need to rinse off the car first.
 
For light duty, use the standard method and for heavier soiled cars, look into what some do-which is a pre-soak method using a pesticide like pump sprayer filled with ONR.
 
I've never really pushed the limits of rinseless washing.
When the vehicles have caked mud and salt residue from winter driving, I hit the DIY spray wash first.
It may not be truly necessary, but I definitely feel more comfortable doing it that way.
From your description, chances are your 100 mile trip in heavy winter traffic in the mountains would fall in that category. :)
 
weeble said:
Hello,

I've started using ONR and I have some DP no rinse on the way, too. I just love the No Rinse thing so far, doubly so in water scarce Denver.

I'm wondering, though, if No Rinse products are appropriate for very, very, very dirty cars. Think 100 miles in heavy winter traffic in the mountains. As a former Minnesotan I felt I knew a thing or two about dirty winter cars caked in salt and what have you, but this mountain traffic crud is a whole 'nother level.

So the question is: is there a point on the clean/dirty continuum where a No Rinse shouldn't be used? If so, where do you draw the line?
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing when I first picked up some ONR. Posted this little test on my first experience:

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Posted here n there:

Greetings all,

I've been reading all the threads on just about every forum singing the praises of Optimum No-Rinse. I figure I probably oughta have anything that's getting such universal raves in my arsenal. Then again, I've got an integral, heated, 3-bay garage with hot n cold water and floor drains ::::scratching head:::: Why would I use ONR?!?

I have found some times when the vehicles aren't quite dirty enough to drag out the hose or heat up the garage. For those times I've been using Poorboy's Spray & Wash and been ecstatic with the results. However, considering some pro detailers report using ONR on their details instead of a wet wash I figgered I needed to see what the hub-bub is all about.

FedEx dropped off a box of goodies today with a qt of ONR inside. I've got a couple of days off and my GMC truck is gonna get the full treatment while I try out the new Flex that arrived last week. The truck's gettin' a wet wash and blow dry so I conscripted my S.O.'s black Hyundai Tucson for a little test.

The Hyundai received a polish and detail about a month ago. I figgered it'd be a good candidate for revealing any marring that might occur using ONR. Winter arrived hard and early in NE Ohio so some marks may be the result of salt, crud and numerous washings. Still, I wanted to test this stuff out.

She pulled in the garage with the Tucson covered in typical winter grime and salt spray. Fortunately, winter gave us a bit of a respite and there wasn't ice and snow all over it and the wheel wells weren't packed. I initially decided to do a spot-test and just do the hood because we're expecting a few days of rain, snow & ice.... no sense in going through the effort to have a pristine vehicle for all of 10 minutes next time it leaves the garage. Intending to just do the hood I read the mixing instructions and added an ounce of ONR to a couple of gallons of water. I washed the hood and dried.... and for some strange reason I thought I could actually stop there. D'OH! No chance....

I don't have a full complement of 'before' pics because I wasn't planning on doing the whole car or writing a review. After a couple more panels and seeing the results I thought it might be a good idea to take some pictures. Not much room to maneuver with two vehicles in the garage so there aren't any full-views and not many specifically targeted before and afters.

I did the left front fender after the hood...... the contrast between it, the rest of the side and the cruddy front wheel is plainly visible.
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The rest of the left side.... the pictures don't actually show how grimey and gritty everything is. When I got down to the rockers and started hearing the grit grinding I wondered if this might be a little more than ONR was designed to handle.
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left side after:
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Right front wheel and fender before:
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Right side after, front wheel still uncleaned:
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Right front wheel clean:
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Random after shots, some with flash, some not:
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I used a blue chenille MF wash mitt which others have recommended for use with ONR. It picked up the grit but didn't appear to want to get rid of the dirt when going back in the bucket. Still, I detected no scratching and the mitt loaded with ONR & water glided over the cruddy surfaces. When I got to the wheels and wells I couldn't bear to use one of my favortie mitts so I dug out one of my old cheapie, underhood mitts. Here's the aftermath:
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When emptying the bucket there was not only grit in the bottom, there was mud I had to dig out with my hand. I guess ONR gets things clean, huh?

I'm still undecided on this product for my uses. If my vehicle needs washed or I'm going to do someone else's I prefer a wet wash. It gets the crevices clean as well as water in the door jambs and around the hood and trunk which enables a quick wipe to leave 'em sparkling. With ONR you'd have to clean 'em specifically.

It took me a little over an hour to do the whole vehicle and I didn't get the nooks and crannies nor did I clean the jambs or wipe around under the hood the way I usually do with a wet wash. It takes me a little over an hour to wash, blow-dry and blot with waffle-weave as well as all the jambs and a light wipe under the hood using my traditional 2-bucket method so I didn't save any time. And the results are no better. IMO, than using PB's Spray & Wipe on the car if it weren't so cruddy and grimey. Truth is, this car needed *washed*. But it was a good test for ONR, which does what it's supposed to do and does it well.

I gotta wonder about the pros that report using ONR when they detail a customer's car instead of dragging out the hose. I s'pose if the vehicle is 'Southern California dirty' vs 'NE Ohio winter dirty' it'd be a time and water saver. For those that don't have access to a hose or garage this stuff would be the ticket as well.

I'd be interested in hearing how others use this product, especially those that choose it over a wet wash if they have the means.
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Since posting this I've found a ton of uses for ONR. I use it at QD strength to spray & wipe the motorcycles and at lube strength with clay. I don't regularly battle the serious winter crud with it, but I could! Using 2 buckets with a dedicated rinse is essential and makes life a LOT easier! If I didn't have the benefit of heat and water in the garage I think I'd probably head to the spray car wash to blast off the worst and then use ONR at home. YMMV.

TL
 
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While ONR is a great product I don't see it as being safe to wash a vehicle that has been treated to winter road conditions.
 
As others have posted, very dirty cars should receive a pre-soak otherwise the ONR/DP Rinseless wash bucket will get dirty real fast.

My vehicle that is always sealed up, sometimes I will do a pre-soak outside with the pressure washer and foam gun. Just foam up the car with some DP Xtreme Foamula and my foam cannon, and then pressure-rinse everything off. I'll then pull the vehicle into the garage and blow dry as much water off the vehicle as I can, and then I will proceed to ONR the vehicle. Since the vehicle is well-waxed, most of the heavy dirt and stuff will just slide off the vehicle during the pre-soak/rinse. Not to mention that the pre-soak is a BIG help with wheel wells since ONR almost worthless for cleaning dirty wheel wells.
 
My rinseless bucket has never been that dirty until I do the tires/wheels. I am wondering at what point the cleaning ability drops. I think one time I just mixed up a small batch and did the wheels but forget how it did.
 
Thanks everyone. Tonight I had a very dirty wagon after some wet dirt road All Wheel Driving. Dirty and gritty. I got out a pump pressure sprayer and initially was pleased with what was coming off. As I worked my sponge top to bottom, I became increasingly uncomfortable, and I ultimately I finished off at a coin op wand wash (I have 2 spots at my ancient inner city rowhouse and I can't be foam-cannoning all over the place).

I started this thread hoping the answer was "no rinses can handle anything!". I guess that threshold is personal thing, and like so much in life you recognize the threshold when you hit it.
 
I believe you could have just pulled the car out and done a quick rinse with a garden hose and sprayer.

Do you have a foam gun? A foam gun is a nice touch-less way to get most of the dirt off by foaming the car up in a blanket of car wash soap and then rinsing everything off, and immediately pulling in and performing a rinse-less wash.
 
Rinseless washes are pretty effective even on abused and neglected cars in my experience. Just a few examples of what ONR can do:

Before:

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After:

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Before:

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After:

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Before:

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After:

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In my mind, I have NO doubt that ONR can "clean" a vehicle, whether it be light dirt, medium dirt, or heavy dirt.

What concerns me however, is that in the process of using ONR, particularly in a heavily soiled vehicle, aren't you in essence SCRATCHING the paint??? I mean, it's common sense, you're dragging dirt between the mitt/sponge and surface of your car.

If anything, a good presoak/rinse is a must.
 
I washed a Chevy Impala that sits outside every day and has not been waxed in 9 months with ONR. It did not have caked on dirt but it took some time to get it clean. I usually went over each section several times. I had even sprayed it with ONR from a hand pump pressure sprayer as a pre-soak.
 
If the vehicles are bad. I'll take it down the street to the coin operated pressure wash. Blast all the dirt and slat off, then back to the garage for the rinseless wash. Of course if it is warm enough(above 35-40F) I'll wash it in the driveway with the hose.
 
Nice write up TL MITCHELL.
I was also a skeptic about ONR. I use it all the time now. I have a Nomad Pressure Washer. I use ONR in it,along with a schmitt. Great combo. The Nomad takes the place of the hose,and it can be used in the garage too.
 
I thought ONR was to conserve water, be kind to the environment?

Using a foam cannon and a pre-soak contradicts the whole purpose of ONR.
If you're going to cannon the car, why not just wash it and rinse it?

IMO, there are too many contradictions about the purpose and use of ONR.
 
I don't think the main purpose of ONR was to save water. Although it does decrease the amount you will use. I think the idea was NO RINSE! Washing the vehicle a section at a time and drying ,will drastically reduce the amount of water you will use. I am not aware of the use of foam cannons with ONR! But ONR can aid in washing the vehicle,if it is sprayed on before actual washing! Like a Pre-Soak.
 
Showroom Shine said:
I don't think the main purpose of ONR was to save water. Although it does decrease the amount you will use. I think the idea was NO RINSE! Washing the vehicle a section at a time and drying ,will drastically reduce the amount of water you will use. I am not aware of the use of foam cannons with ONR! But ONR can aid in washing the vehicle,if it is sprayed on before actual washing! Like a Pre-Soak.
Click to expand...

You must not be reading the other posts about foam cannons and pre-soaks.

Yes, ONR states that it was developed and introduced as a product to reduce environmental damage by limiting the amount of water used to wash a car.

Carry on.
 
Blackfire said:
I thought ONR was to conserve water, be kind to the environment?

Using a foam cannon and a pre-soak contradicts the whole purpose of ONR.
If you're going to cannon the car, why not just wash it and rinse it?

IMO, there are too many contradictions about the purpose and use of ONR.
Click to expand...
Like any product, the user controls a lot of things.
Some people can wax/seal a vehicle with less than an ounce of product, others use several ounces.

I don't use foam cannons or do a pre-rinse. Like others, I do go to the DIY spray wash and knock off any caked mud & salt residue in the winter. I don't need to do that very often and I might be able to use the rinseless without doing it, but it does add to my peace of mind.
My rinseless washes are done with 1 gallon of wash solution and 1 gallon of rinse solution in a two compartment bucket. I do use a type of grit guard although I'm not sure it is needed. More "Peace of Mind". :)
The rinse solution has the rinseless product in it at about 1/2 strength. I do that to keep from overly diluting the wash solution during the job.
While I have never done it, I do think I could do the entire wash with just one gallon of wash solution and skip the rinse water entirely.
Two gallons max and it probably could be done with one.
That's fairly water conserving in my mind.
As far as being kind to the environment, I think most ot today's auto shampoos fall in that category.

That being said, my main reason for using rinseless washes is convenience.
In the winter, a conventional wash is a real challenge. A rinseless wash in the garage is like a walk in the park.
A hot sunny day in the summer used to mean washing the vehicles at 6 AM or after 7 PM in order to have shade. Now, I just drive the vehicle in the garage and do the rinseless wash whenever I have the time and inclination. No worries about wind blown dust on the windy days, no bird poop about the time you are finished.
I have even washed cars in the garage when it was raining. When the rain stops, I have a clean car to drive.

Hey, rinseless washes and waterless washes aren't for everyone.
I happen to like them, but those that don't should use whatever method feels right for them.
 
^Great post, ONR is used mainly for convenience. It shouldn't substitute a real wash in certain situations but it certainly is better for the environment in terms of not releasing a bucket load of suds into whatever area you happen to be washing in. That and it doesn't require rinsing in the strict sense that you will need to use additional water to remove the cleaning agent. Additionally, I believe that ONR states that the product to its base ingredients are meant to be more environmentally friendly (also VOC compliant).
 
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