Not being able to remove swirl marks, help!

N

num21lock

New member
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I've got a dark blue 2007/2008 Kia Carens, looks fine from a distance, but up close you can see lots of spider webs and swirls and fine scratches. I believe it's a clear coat, as there was no paint colour transfer unto the foam pad when I attempted to compound/polish.

I did a thorough wash and clayed (Erazer Elasti-clay) with clay lube (ONR mixed solution). After drying the car I proceeded with a GG DA with a 5" backing plate and a 5.5" LC Orange pad. I had on me a bottle of Menzerna SF4000, and tried paint correction on 2 test spots, without any swirl removals.

I made sure to do the marker line trick on the backing plate to make sure the pad was rotating properly. I applied medium pressure at speed 5. I also primed the pad with the SF4000 product as well, before adding 3-4 additional pea sized drops.

Really odd that I wasn't getting any correction or swirl mark removal at all. I had read through the AGO forums of folks doing whole car corrections with the SF4000 and even a white foam pad...

Should I up the cutting compound? If so, do I go with the PF2500 or the FG400 (rated 7/10 for cut)? And do I still stick with the orange pads for swirls removal if I do change to a different compound?

Am I missing something? Hope to get some help and advice, thank you in advance!
 
Sf4000 is a finishing polish. Get something harder with the orange pad. Follow up with SF on white pad
 
I lot of people love FG400 for heavy correction/swirls.
 
If you can't even make any progress at all with the griots polisher using 5.5 inch pads pads then I would try pf2500 if that doesn't correct on your test spot then go to fg400.

I use fg400 alot and it works great. I've had good luck with white pads and fg400 on lighter jobs and with a megs mf cutting pad for heavier work.
 
Go with the fg-400 and turn your speed up to 6 slow arm movement and make and 6-8 passes

Sent from my SPH-D710 using AG Online
 
num21lock,

Like others said, you're using a product with minimal cut and while it can work it will be a lot faster and a much more efficient use of your time and energy to use a more aggressive product.

I don't think you need to get as aggressive as the FG 400 Compound but instead, take a look at the SI 1500 Super Intensive Polish. You can use this with just about any foam pad to increase or decrease how aggressive the overall abrading action is and some people after buffing with this polish will go straight to wax as it can look that good.

A show car oriented person would re-polish with the SF 4000 and a soft foam finishing pad and then go to wax.

Here you go... listed in order of aggrssevness....

Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers


Menzerna has introduced all new labels and product names for identifying their products. I know it's easy to stick with what you know and change can be hard but the new product names and identifying numbers are here to stay so might as well make the switch when talking and typing about them..



:dblthumb2:
 
I ran into the same issues with PC and Pinnacle Natural swirl remover. I wondered if it was due to my lack of experience or the need to use a more aggressive product.
 
Ford Fest said:
I ran into the same issues with PC and Pinnacle Natural swirl remover. I wondered if it was due to my lack of experience or the need to use a more aggressive product.
Click to expand...

What are you working on?

Pinnacle ASR is a medium cut polish and very capable for removing just about anything that should be removed from a daily driver.

Maybe start a dedicated thread?


:xyxthumbs:
 
Never had much luck trying to correct with a DA. The forced action machines and a wool pad would take care of that quick.
 
sweatthedetails said:
Never had much luck trying to correct with a DA.
Click to expand...


Of course any tool that's gear driven will be faster but for about the millionth time in my life I just took an older retired guy that's NEVER polished paint by machine and using a simple Porter Cable dual action polisher he just learned how to remove swirls and scratches out of his 2003 Mustang Mach 1.

Super simple. Super safe.


:buffing:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
What are you working on?


:xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

It is a garage queen 2007 black GT500. As I mentioned, I'm new to working with a machine, I've always worked by hand. I clayed the car, then used the PC with Pinnacle swirl remover (6.5" orange) polish (6.5" white) and finished with Black Label sealant.

The paint is a constant fight due to dust. I'm amazed just how much dust gets on the car in a day or two sitting in the garage. In the past I used a CA duster and found that it may have caused a lot of swirl marks. I was introduced to waterless wash and have been maintaining with it. I've also started to use a car cover, but would prefer to leave the car uncovered so I can enjoy it.
 
Ford Fest said:
It is a garage queen 2007 black GT500. As I mentioned, I'm new to working with a machine, I've always worked by hand. I clayed the car, then used the PC with Pinnacle swirl remover (6.5" orange) polish (6.5" white) and finished with Black Label sealant.

The paint is a constant fight due to dust. I'm amazed just how much dust gets on the car in a day or two sitting in the garage. In the past I used a CA duster and found that it may have caused a lot of swirl marks. I was introduced to waterless wash and have been maintaining with it. I've also started to use a car cover, but would prefer to leave the car uncovered so I can enjoy it.
Click to expand...

I have a black 09 GT500, & I know what you're saying about dust! I've never tried Pinnacle. A combination I found that works well on mine is correcting with my PC7424 (until I get a Rupes!) & white pad, & Poorboy's SSR2 or 2.5. Finish polishing with either 3D/HD polish or Menzerna SF4000. Then I seal with Menzerna PL & throw a couple of coats of Menzerna CL wax on for good measure. Im completely happy with the results.
 
Ford Fest said:
I ran into the same issues with PC and Pinnacle Natural swirl remover. I wondered if it was due to my lack of experience or the need to use a more aggressive product.
Click to expand...

Ford Fest said:
It is a garage queen 2007 black GT500. As I mentioned, I'm new to working with a machine, I've always worked by hand.
Click to expand...


I only mean this in the nicest way but the problem is your lack of experience and that's why I always recommend to people just learning how to machine polish to NOT practice or learn on something important to them, especially something cool and black like your GT500.

Practice on the wife's car first...

Get this DVD, it shows you how to get great results from any dual action polisher the first time out....



How to Properly Use the Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher Updated!
PorterCableDVD.jpg





Yesterday, I took a retired New York Police Officer that has NEVER used a machine to polish his car's paint in his life and in just a fewminutess taught him how to remove all the swirls and scratches and create a show car finish on his 2003 Mach 1.

Of course it helps to havesomeonee by your side that's been doing this for years but with the help of this forum I know you can do it.


:)
 
Agree with my lack of experience. I planned to practice on other family member cars, but the problem is they are either champagne or silver paint. You can't really see much in regard to swirl marks. I'll check out the video you recommended. I've watched countless hours of your YouTube videos and that I had it down. I'm sure it will come down to knowing the right pressure, arm movement and practice.

Thanks for the advice!
 
Agree with my lack of experience. I planned to practice on other family member cars, but the problem is they are either champagne or silver paint. You can't really see much in regard to swirl marks. I'll check out the video you recommended. I've watched countless hours of your YouTube videos and thought I had it down. I'm sure it will come down to knowing the right pressure, arm movement and practice.

Thanks for the advice!
 
Thanks for the chiming all! Apologies for the late reply, have been bogged down with work and finally had a chance to work on the vehicle today.

My intent for starting this thread was to determine why I was not getting noticeable paint correction. Was it due to user error on my part because of improper technique, wrong pad usage, all out idiocy etc etc...

I managed to get hold of a bottle of Menzerna FG 400 and got cracking on the car with a LC 5.5" Orange Foam Pad, working 6 section passes per 2ish by 2ish panel with medium pressure, followed up with another 2 section passes with just the machine weight pressing down (of course all this after a thorough wash and clay). I made sure to clean the pad of residue product after every 2-3 panels.

I noticed much quicker correction for the lighter scratches/swirls, but still not enough to get to the majority of swirl marks. If I had to put a number to it, I'd say it cleared out about 40%-50% of imperfections. Is this a realistic amount of correction to be expected?

Moving forward, do I now up the cutting power of the pad? If so, do I go with a LC Purple Foam Wool Pad? Or a LC Ultra Fibre Microfibre pad? :confused:

PS: Thank you for your input Mike, you are a wealth of knowledge and I am grateful that you are taking the time to respond =)
 
I was correcting an 05 Mustang that had awful swirls. The car had been repainted & the clear was super hard. My PC with orange pad & FG400 was barely making any headway. A buddy of mine came over with his Rupes & Megs 5.5" microfiber pads, & in just a couple of passes the swirls were gone. I don't know what made the bigger difference, the longer throw of the Rupes (21mm vs 6mm) or the better cutting ability of the mf pads. All I do know is it's a combination that I will soon own.
 
Just to recap...

First post by the OP...

num21lock said:
I've got a dark blue 2007/2008 Kia Carens, looks fine from a distance, but up close you can see lots of spider webs and swirls and fine scratches.
Click to expand...


Follow-up post....


num21lock said:
I managed to get hold of a bottle of Menzerna FG 400 and got cracking on the car with a LC 5.5" Orange Foam Pad,

I noticed much quicker correction for the lighter scratches/swirls, but still not enough to get to the majority of swirl marks.
Click to expand...


Hmmm.....

Hard paint?
Deep swirls and scratches? How did these swirls and scratches come to be in your car's paint?


num21lock said:
Moving forward, do I now up the cutting power of the pad? If so, do I go with a LC Purple Foam Wool Pad? Or a LC Ultra Fiber Microfiber pad? :confused:
Click to expand...

Both of those pads will cut better than foam as fiber is a form of abrasive. Menzerna FG 400 is actually a fairly aggressive compound, sounds kind of like you're dealing with some fairly deep defects.

You could try the THIN Purple Foamed Wool pads or the Meguiar's Xtra Cut MF Pads, but are good cutting pads.

Besides that a more aggressive compound would be the Meguiar's M101. I don't think it's a whole lot more aggressive than the FG 400 but it might be a tick more aggressive. The important factor is it uses different abrasive technology and it might work better on some paint systems over the FG 400. You won't know till you try though...

That or get a rotary buffer and just start chopping...


:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top