number of times you can compound/polish a clearcoat

[cpa5oh]

I just used compound on my car with a Porter Cable and orange pads. Next step is to use Meguiars #105 to finish it...this whole process got me to thinking...

If you had a client that brought a car to you and you had to take out swirls/wash scratches (but no scratches deeper than what is caused by washing without using proper care,) you corrected it with something like Meguiars 205 and 105 and a Porter Cable with foam pads, then they didn't take real good care of it and they came back again the following year with the same car, same condition...how many years/times could you correct that paint before you got through the clearcoat and it was ruined?

I know part of the answer is going to be "it depends" (on the car, how bad the paint is when it gets to you, and how many times it had been corrected previously) but I'm just kinda looking for a ballpark...are we only able to do this a few times or are we good to do this many times?

I have no idea how deep swirls and wash scratches are in relation to how thick a clear coat actually is...which I think is where the answer to the question lies. There's a ton of information on this site and I learn everytime I hit the forum to read, but this is kind of a big picture question that I haven't come across here.

Thanks!

 

[A-train]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/21620-how-many-times-can-you-buff.html


Here is the same question that was asked in 09...and you prob guessed it there is no definitive answer, as mike states there are too many variables. The real only way I can think of to get a ball park is to find out exactly the thickness of your paint, then on a ball park say you would be removing 2-4 microns of paint if you went with the 105 -205 combination every time then just divide the two. If it's a client and they have had their paint buffed before then you really don't know the starting point of micron thickness. So therefore a paint thickness guage would be important if you wanted to know exactly. I think this is where educating your clients on proper wash techniques would be key, so when they come back next year you have other options then starting with the most aggressive method. Not a pro here nor do i own a pt guage...just my 2cents.

 

[Rsurfer]

Meg's 105 is a compound

I just used compound on my car with a Porter Cable and orange pads. Next step is to use Meguiars #105 to finish it...this whole process got me to thinking...

There are paint gauges that can measure the thickness of clear coat, but that would cost you several thousand dollars.

A-train So therefore a paint thickness guage would be important if you wanted to know exactly.

 

[jocassee]

A paint isnt thousands of dollars. Granted a DeFelsko is 700.00. The only problem I have with one is they measure total paint not clearcoat. So we work with clearcoat unless we're working on single stage paint. And for cpa5oh, I will only do my vehicle twice...if its bad...and that second time may be years down the road too. A ton of varibles come in to play when dealing with it. A-Train hit it on the head....when I do a vehicle for someone I tell them the correct way to wash it and take care of it and hope for the best.

 

[Rsurfer]

A paint isnt thousands of dollars.


It is if you wanted to measure clear only.

 

[cpa5oh]

Meg's 105 is a compound

I just used compound on my car with a Porter Cable and orange pads. Next step is to use Meguiars #105 to finish it...this whole process got me to thinking...

There are paint gauges that can measure the thickness of clear coat, but that would cost you several thousand dollars.

A-train So therefore a paint thickness guage would be important if you wanted to know exactly.

My fault - I meant 205.

And that thread referenced above, on the fourth page, has a post that pretty much answers my question without giving a # - seemed to me to say that as long as the paint is sound and you don't try buffing and buffing and buffing to remove every last defect (stick to removing the wash scratches and swirls,) getting through the clear with a Porter Cable isn't much of a concern.

 

[jocassee]

Youre exactly right. We're not detailing Bugatti Veyrons. Get it as good as you can and to what degree youre happy with it. 99% of the people that see it will think its flawless anyways. You will be the only one that knows.

 

[FUNX650]

A paint isnt thousands of dollars.


It is if you wanted to measure clear only.

:iagree:

There are Defelsko (among other brands) electronic paint thickness gauges (ETG's) for coatings such as: ferrous, non-ferrous, plastics, fiberglass, and other composites...even powder-coatings.

You can usually find the Defelsko PosiTector 200 C/ADV that will measure up to three (3) seperate film layers on sale for around $2850...sans accessories.

Bob

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

12 times. Exactly 12 times.




:joking:

As others have said, a PTG is the best investment you can make so you have a ballpark estimate of what you're dealing with.

 

[FUNX650]

Meg's 105 is a compound



My fault - I meant 205.

And that thread referenced above, on the fourth page, has a post that pretty much answers my question without giving a # - seemed to me to say that as long as the paint is sound and you don't try buffing and buffing and buffing to remove every last defect (stick to removing the wash scratches and swirls,) getting through the clear with a Porter Cable isn't much of a concern.

IMO....There needs to be concern! (some threads on this forum about "burning through" with a PC do exist):


Lots of variables. Here's some:
-Paint is sound (?)...Please explain.
-abrasiveness of compound/polish/correction media
-type of pad
-pressure applied
-NO. of passes

Please exercise caution.



Bob

 

[embolism]

I remember asking this question when I first got here too!

 

[CEE DOG]

12 times. Exactly 12 times.

LOL!

IMO....There needs to be concern! (some threads on this forum about "burning through" with a PC do exist):


Lots of variables. Here's some:
-Paint is sound (?)...Please explain.
-abrasiveness of compound/polish/correction media
-type of pad
-pressure applied
-NO. of passes

Please exercise caution.



Bob

Good advice Bob rops: People start thinking that its foolproof and polish the edge of a panel or high point too aggressive (for example) and they may be in for a bad day.

 

[rousher99]

Youre exactly right. We're not detailing Bugatti Veyrons. Get it as good as you can and to what degree youre happy with it. 99% of the people that see it will think its flawless anyways. You will be the only one that knows.

99%of people don't have automotive eyes like the people on this forum.. i have gone to plenty of car shows and got kicked out because they gave the wrong person the "best paint" trophy.... and as for buffing just get a paint thickness checker... i am a poor guy so i just guestimate.. if you put the polish in between your fingers you can feel how aggressive it will be, then just multiply the simple heat factor and the pad choice and there you go detailing math.. don't make things too hard just use alittle bit of comon sence and it makes sense..(at least to me it does)

 

[rousher99]

A paint isnt thousands of dollars. Granted a DeFelsko is 700.00. The only problem I have with one is they measure total paint not clearcoat. So we work with clearcoat unless we're working on single stage paint. And for cpa5oh, I will only do my vehicle twice...if its bad...and that second time may be years down the road too. A ton of varibles come in to play when dealing with it. A-Train hit it on the head....when I do a vehicle for someone I tell them the correct way to wash it and take care of it and hope for the best.

if im not looking for a profit i can spray a clear coat for $300 on a coupe.. but once you add in the painters wage and utilities its ab out $900 around here. thats why i do all my own body and paintwork.

 

[oldmodman]

Here is my answer.

A lot.

I bought a 1992 Explorer and for the first 8 years I used Meguiar's Cleaner Wax by hand.
Then I got a Porter Cable and used Meguiar's #84, #83, & #82 exclusively. Right up until the clear coat started to fail. Right on the spot I had tried to get rid of bird bomb etching. Just a slight pale spot at first, but now I have clear coat failure over most of the upper surfaces of the car.
So a relatively thin Ford Clearcoat lasted almost twenty years. And (I'm guessing here" appx 80 corrections with various products.
So if you only keep your car three to five years. Go ahead and polish away! I doubt that you will go through the clearcoat. But just remember to use the mildest product you have.

 

[cpa5oh]

IMO....There needs to be concern! (some threads on this forum about "burning through" with a PC do exist):


Lots of variables. Here's some:
-Paint is sound (?)...Please explain.
-abrasiveness of compound/polish/correction media
-type of pad
-pressure applied
-NO. of passes

Please exercise caution.



Bob

I didn't take the advice from the previous thread to mean "don't worry at all." I took it to mean "just deal with swirls/wash scratches" and wash the car properly so that you don't have to compound it every year and a once a year polish isn't a concern.

From the sounds of the responses (and that advice in the previous thread,) the answer to my original question of how many times you could bring an abused paint job back to life with (for example) 105 and 205 is something well short of year after year after year. If I'm not gonna work to maintain the swirl/wash scratch free finish each time I wash, might as well forget about it because I'd be asking for trouble trying to bring it back time after time.

Next logical newb question is whether I can *expect* to go years, using careful wash techniques, to keep the swirls and wash scratches away

 

[aerogt01]

if you put the polish in between your fingers you can feel how aggressive it will be . .

This might work for old DAT Meg's and 3M body shop stuff, but I'm pretty sure this plain does not work with newer abrasives such as M105,205, Optimum SMAT polishes, etc.

 

[rousher99]

This might work for old DAT Meg's and 3M body shop stuff, but I'm pretty sure this plain does not work with newer abrasives such as M105,205, Optimum SMAT polishes, etc.

i am not blessed to work with smat products.. lol i guess i need to try em out befor i open my mouth.. but what i was explaining was how i was taught from a bodyshop guy so i guess trhat makes sense, their stuff is gritty as heck..

 

[chevchenko]

Color has not been mentioned in this thread, but to me it might be the most important factor. If you have a black car, you will have to compound it often, perhaps as much as once a year. If you have a grey car you might have to do it once every 4 years! A red car might be something in between that.

I doubt if you will have any problem polishing a few times a year, but compound is a bit more aggressive.

 

[The Heater]

Hello, cpa5oh:

What you really appear to need is a suggestion for what to tell that type of customer.

I am an attorney here in WA. Not sure where you live. But a proviso in writing would be a good idea for any customer in that category that states you are not responsible for reduction in paint thickness caused by scratch removal if it requires use of any substance that contains abrasives (pretty much covers anything with the capacity to remove scratches). And that by signing the document the client waives any claim for damages resulting in the diminution of the clear coat thickness which was necessitated by the scratch depth in the paint as it appears at that time. And that the client has inspected the vehicle and consents to the proposed treatment.

Then you can polish and compound away and the client has been informed and consented to the treatment, and probably waived any claim for liability if he/she feels the clear coat eventually wore off.

And if you are not using an orbital polisher but rather a DA or random orbit polisher, you would have to try REAL hard to wear off the clear coat with most products out there except for possibly the harshest 3M overspray compound or something similar, and even then you would have to put a lot of pressure on one of those units. They are made for the most foolish user so they don't ruin the paint.