Over heating Rupes Pads

[DASTaylor]

I have read a post on here about this before but was wondering if there is anymore techniques/tricks i can use to prevent it.

I recently bought a mark2 bigfoot 21 and have done about 6-7 cars with it, i used about 3-4 pads for compounding and 3-4 pads for polishing rotating through them to allow for pad cooling. still i find the pads are very beat up by the end of a car. (concaving, separating from backing)

Should i start using 5-6 or 7-8 pads per compound or polish on a car?

Would a washer mod help keep things cool? (trying to avoid it if possible)

I have recently ordered the Lake Country HD Orbital pads to try (which claim to run 10% cooler), but has anyone had experience with them and how much cooler they run?

Also how often do you guys clean your pads? i would use 3 pads cleaning with air or conditioning brush (sometimes its all i will have if I'm detailing somewhere else) but found they would really over saturate still by ATLEAST half way through the car, but i found when i would wash the pads half way through, the remaining water in the pads (even though not much) would make a mess with the compound or polish and also not be as effective until the pad completely dried, which all sacrificed precious working time

This stuff has all been really bothering me as i love my Rupes but just need to fix these issues (as the pads aren't cheap haha), so i decided to join this forum to ask some pro's I would appreciate any feedback!

PS. I have also read that people are able to polish an entire panel (i.e. Hood) with out changing pads to cool down, i find i am switching pads every section or 2 that i polish because the pad starts to feel warm, and no way could do an entire hood with out risking ruining the pad.

 

[idriveblackcars]

What speed are you using? I find 3/4 tops is all I need with the mk2. I lowered my speed and all my pad issues went away. I bump it up only when I need it.

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

What pads are you using?

Alot of people are having problems with there foam cutting pads.

 

[Rsurfer]

I have read a post on here about this before but was wondering if there is anymore techniques/tricks i can use to prevent it.

I recently bought a mark2 bigfoot 21 and have done about 6-7 cars with it, i used about 3-4 pads for compounding and 3-4 pads for polishing rotating through them to allow for pad cooling. still i find the pads are very beat up by the end of a car. (concaving, separating from backing)

Should i start using 5-6 or 7-8 pads per compound or polish on a car?

Would a washer mod help keep things cool? (trying to avoid it if possible)

I have recently ordered the Lake Country HD Orbital pads to try (which claim to run 10% cooler), but has anyone had experience with them and how much cooler they run?

Also how often do you guys clean your pads? i would use 3 pads cleaning with air or conditioning brush (sometimes its all i will have if I'm detailing somewhere else) but found they would really over saturate still by ATLEAST half way through the car, but i found when i would wash the pads half way through, the remaining water in the pads (even though not much) would make a mess with the compound or polish and also not be as effective until the pad completely dried, which all sacrificed precious working time

This stuff has all been really bothering me as i love my Rupes but just need to fix these issues (as the pads aren't cheap haha), so i decided to join this forum to ask some pro's I would appreciate any feedback!

PS. I have also read that people are able to polish an entire panel (i.e. Hood) with out changing pads to cool down, i find i am switching pads every section or 2 that i polish because the pad starts to feel warm, and no way could do an entire hood with out risking ruining the pad.

Lower your speed setting and get more pads. You should be changing pads not only to let it cool down, but because they do get saturated with dead paint, dried polish, crap and needs to be cleaned.
You need a minimum of 4 pads of the same color and thats if the paint is in fair condition.

 

[DASTaylor]

What speed are you using? I find 3/4 tops is all I need with the mk2. I lowered my speed and all my pad issues went away. I bump it up only when I need it.

i use between 4/5 for cutting depending on the paint and 3/4 for polishing. i will try staying around 3/4 tops, thanks

 

[DASTaylor]

What pads are you using?

Alot of people are having problems with there foam cutting pads.

I use the Meguiars MF Cutting discs and the green and yellow Rupes polishing pads for most of my work. Glad to hear it isn't just me lol

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

I use the Meguiars MF Cutting discs and the green and yellow Rupes polishing pads for most of my work. Glad to hear it isn't just me lol

I have to tell you, i do like the megs mf cutting discs however, they are not the most sturdy pad out there.

You have to realize that the megs mf system is just that a system, it was designed for a 8mm da, not a long throw.

I find them still to fail pre maturely on a 8mm da, but on a long throw da it is much more rapid.

The foam interface starts to Delaminate and decay almost instantly.

However, the griots garage boss microfiber cutting pad pad was designed and made for long throws, and they are bullet proof i have not had one fail on me yet.

So if your looking for a microfiber cutting pad its Griots Garage Boss Mf pad all day.

I also love the fast cutting pads too.

We are in this business to make money, we might love what we do but at the end of the day we have to feed our selfs and family.

And the megs discs some last long some don't, i just hate when they Delaminate so fast.

I was using my Rupes mini with a 3 inch mf megs cutting and i didnt even finish my first pass, half of the foam interface was gone.

As far as the Rupes foam pads, people have been complaining about them, espicially on the mk2.

I am not a fan of the Rupes foam cutting pads, i however LOVE the yellow.

But as far as the megs disc, that has nothing to do with Rupes, that pad wasnt designed for that machine, that use, and that long distance of a throw.

 

[DASTaylor]

Lower your speed setting and get more pads. You should be changing pads not only to let it cool down, but because they do get saturated with dead paint, dried polish, crap and needs to be cleaned.
You need a minimum of 4 pads of the same color and thats if the paint is in fair condition.

awesome i will try that as well, i will be taking 6 pads (of each colour) with me for the next job and lowering my speed. I still don't see how people are able to do an entire panel with one pad, i have to rotate every pass or 2 (not that the pad is super hot at this point but to keep them as cool as possible while i work)

 

[DASTaylor]

I have to tell you, i do like the megs mf cutting discs however, they are not the most sturdy pad out there.

You have to realize that the megs mf system is just that a system, it was designed for a 8mm da, not a long throw.

I find them still to fail pre maturely on a 8mm da, but on a long throw da it is much more rapid.

The foam interface starts to Delaminate and decay almost instantly.

However, the griots garage boss microfiber cutting pad pad was designed and made for long throws, and they are bullet proof i have not had one fail on me yet.

So if your looking for a microfiber cutting pad its Griots Garage Boss Mf pad all day.

I also love the fast cutting pads too.

We are in this business to make money, we might love what we do but at the end of the day we have to feed our selfs and family.

And the megs discs some last long some don't, i just hate when they Delaminate so fast.

I was using my Rupes mini with a 3 inch mf megs cutting and i didnt even finish my first pass, half of the foam interface was gone.

As far as the Rupes foam pads, people have been complaining about them, espicially on the mk2.

I am not a fan of the Rupes foam cutting pads, i however LOVE the yellow.

But as far as the megs disc, that has nothing to do with Rupes, that pad wasnt designed for that machine, that use, and that long distance of a throw.

i will try the boss pads swell then! but to be completely honest the Megs MF discs have been the least of my worries!! it sucks because I

started to like the green and yellow pads. i think i just need to use more on a car though. Im not giving up on them yet!! haha

 

[swanicyouth]

Dunno. I just polished my whole Pathfinder using the Rupes 15 Mk2 and 2 foam yellow Rupes pads with Rupes fine polish (yellow cap).

No problem. Pads still look brand new once I cleaned them. I did clean them 1/2 through - so it's kind of like I used 4 pads. Also used a PC for the smaller areas.

I bought these pads years ago, right when AGO started carrying Rupes. I never had a Rupes pad fail. I'm not using them day in and out - but they are a few years old; have been used multiple times - and still are fine.

It was prolly 85° in my garage. The machine got warm - but never too hot. I also use a single spritz of Wolfgang pad conditioning spray every once in a while.

I did the hood and front quarters with one pad. Then, each side using another fresh pad (cleaned). Roof using cleaned pad #4. Bumpers and tailgate with PC. I didn't swap pads out between panels.

I clean the pad after each section pass with a Megs pad brush. I was using a decent amount of downward force at times. Machine ran mostly between speeds 4-5; occasional above 5.

A couple of thoughts:

1. People having issues with heat aren't using Rupes pads and polishes. If that is the case, you kind of get what you get. Todd and Dylan have posted multiple reasons why you need to use their stuff with these machines.

2. The machines are only having heat issues performing heavier cutting then I have to do on my personal vehicles (assuming all Rupes products are being used).

3. People experiencing heat issues are using too much polish, speed, or downward pressure (assuming all Rupes products are being used).

4. Some other external force is contribution to this (assuming all Rupes products are being used); like:

- excessive ambient or panel temperature
- screwy extension cord (doubt this)
- sticky paint causing excessive friction and heat

5. People are working super fast and the machine is running almost constantly. I work slow.

6. People are doing too many passes without pulling the machine off the panel. For me, the golden # is 4 slow passes. After that, it's time to clean the pad with a brush and inspect the paint. If your doing like 6 or 7 passes - it's too much IMHO - and your pads will get hot.

 

[The Guz]

Are you using the Rupes polishes?

 

[Mike lambert]

I've been using the Rupes pads since they have been here, never had a problem and I can polish an entire car with one yellow pad! Blow it out with air after every pass to handle residue and it's fine. You guys got to be doing something out of the ordinary?

 

[DASTaylor]

Are you using the Rupes polishes?

No i am using M105 and M205 would it make that significant of a difference tho?

 

[DASTaylor]

I've been using the Rupes pads since they have been here, never had a problem and I can polish an entire car with one yellow pad! Blow it out with air after every pass to handle residue and it's fine. You guys got to be doing something out of the ordinary?

Im not to sure thats what I'm wondering, i do have to work fast as i do this to make money, but i clean the pad every pass, and even with air by the time I'm half way through the car there would be quite a bit of product deep into the pad (only removed by washing at this point) and that is using 3 pads not just 1. But i am not sure how aggressive you are going at the same time as there is no way i could use 1 pad on the entire car with out going very very slow and on speed 1 or 2. A lot of my work is heavy correcting so i understand it is going to be hard on the pads but i feel like this is a little over kill.

 

[JeffM]

No i am using M105 and M205 would it make that significant of a difference tho?

Didnt I read somewhere the pads struggle with solvent polishes?

 

[Calendyr]

It's not a matter of technique, it's a matter of pad compatibility. There are several types of hook and loop material (Velcro) and they are not all compatible with one an other. Of course you can reduce the effect of that incompatibility by lowering the speed of the machine or by applying less pressure but the root problem is that the interface is not sticking well together and kinda continually hook up and release while you work creating friction between the pad and the backing plate.

The only real solution is to buy compatible pads either from Rupes or by a manufacturer that uses the same hook and loop interface Rupes does. For my Bigfoot 21ES I purchased Lake Country HD pads and had no issues since I switched. You would have to verify if the interface is the same on the Mark 1 and Mark 2 machines.

 

[The Guz]

No i am using M105 and M205 would it make that significant of a difference tho?

Dylan of Rupes has posted a few times that some polishes are not compatible with the Rupes pads. It has to do with the solvents in the polishes deteriorating the pad materail. It was posted a few weeks ago.

 

[DASTaylor]

Dylan of Rupes has posted a few times that some polishes are not compatible with the Rupes pads. It has to do with the solvents in the polishes deteriorating the pad materail. It was posted a few weeks ago.

Wow ill have to check that if thats true it would make so much sense Thank you!!

would really suck tho i love m105 and m205

 

[DASTaylor]

It's not a matter of technique, it's a matter of pad compatibility. There are several types of hook and loop material (Velcro) and they are not all compatible with one an other. Of course you can reduce the effect of that incompatibility by lowering the speed of the machine or by applying less pressure but the root problem is that the interface is not sticking well together and kinda continually hook up and release while you work creating friction between the pad and the backing plate.

The only real solution is to buy compatible pads either from Rupes or by a manufacturer that uses the same hook and loop interface Rupes does. For my Bigfoot 21ES I purchased Lake Country HD pads and had no issues since I switched. You would have to verify if the interface is the same on the Mark 1 and Mark 2 machines.

i just purchased the lake country hd pads actually (haven't gotten them yet) but if I'm not mistaken i read somewhere that the interface has changed

 

[Dylan@RUPES]

It's not a matter of technique, it's a matter of pad compatibility. There are several types of hook and loop material (Velcro) and they are not all compatible with one an other. Of course you can reduce the effect of that incompatibility by lowering the speed of the machine or by applying less pressure but the root problem is that the interface is not sticking well together and kinda continually hook up and release while you work creating friction between the pad and the backing plate.

The only real solution is to buy compatible pads either from Rupes or by a manufacturer that uses the same hook and loop interface Rupes does. For my Bigfoot 21ES I purchased Lake Country HD pads and had no issues since I switched. You would have to verify if the interface is the same on the Mark 1 and Mark 2 machines.

^^ correct - the hottest point in any machine|plate|pad|surface sandwich is the engagement point between the hook of the backing plate and the loop of the pad. Choose a combo that produces sloppy engagement and you have millions of little friction points that are each individually generating heat with every little movement. This has been a vastly overlooked area for detailers because prior to long stroke + high power tools there wasn't enough movement and power there to produce sufficient friction. Its basically a case of how pushing the envelop of polishing capabilities has started to show weaknesses in products that wouldn't have seen them previously.

Wow ill have to check that if thats true it would make so much sense Thank you!!

would really suck tho i love m105 and m205

As far as I'm aware (or have experienced) those polishes haven't produced any issues with our pads. The thing to avoid is products with high solvent content - polishes high in solvents or solvent based pad cleaners will deteriorate the open cell structure of our foams and cause them to fray.


On one last note - one technique issue I've noticed with many people at demos all around the country is pressure. Some people still very much employ the heavy downward pressure associated with the use of something like a PC with the BigFoot tools - this is absolutely going to kill your pads. The weight of the tool only. Your top hand is there only to steer the polish on the surface and maintain flat contact with the surface being worked on. When you begin to apply heavy pressure the tool is going to power thru your efforts and take all that happens is abuse of the pad. The stresses of a 15 or 21mm movement on foam when pressed hard against a surface means you have one surface (the paint) trying to stop the pad face and another (the backing plate) trying to keep it moving. This twisting/torquing movement is going to cause the individual cells of the foam to rub against each-other and create a ton of internal heat in the pad.

Not saying that necessarily that the OP is applying heavy pressure, but observing so many people and correcting this part of their technique with the tools all over the US shows that there are many who do and it could potentially be another source of problems with the process.