Pads Leaving Swirl Marks

AndrewBall

AndrewBall

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ok, so the other day working on a car I sanded, and buffed it with my rotary and the finished looked great but there were some swirls so i got out my DA with a yellow pad and some 105 to cut them down. I did a section and wiped it clean to find that the DA left a terrible hazing effect of little micro scratches. I was perplexed. that had never happened before. I closely inspected my pad for any dirt or anything and it was perfectly clean.

Only thing is i had some polish on it from when i cleaned other parts of the car earlier. (i forgot to wash it) so I threw it in some cleaner and rinsed it out, spun it off and tried again. it started to remove some of the scratches and didn't leave any new ones.

Can dried compound really become that abrasive? I have two of each type of pad so i can switch them out if they become to caked up with crap. It would seem that the compound had dried a little too much on the pad and was depositing in the foam and caused little scratches. i was able to completely remove them, but i had never seen that before.

anyone have this problem? or can confirm that, thats what it was?
 
AndrewBall said:
ok, so the other day working on a car I sanded, and buffed it with my rotary and the finished looked great but there were some swirls so i got out my DA with a yellow pad and some 105 to cut them down. I did a section and wiped it clean to find that the DA left a terrible hazing effect of little micro scratches. I was perplexed. that had never happened before. I closely inspected my pad for any dirt or anything and it was perfectly clean.

Only thing is i had some polish on it from when i cleaned other parts of the car earlier. (i forgot to wash it) so I threw it in some cleaner and rinsed it out, spun it off and tried again. it started to remove some of the scratches and didn't leave any new ones.

Can dried compound really become that abrasive? I have two of each type of pad so i can switch them out if they become to caked up with crap. It would seem that the compound had dried a little too much on the pad and was depositing in the foam and caused little scratches. i was able to completely remove them, but i had never seen that before.

anyone have this problem? or can confirm that, thats what it was?
Click to expand...

as you probably know, a yellow pad is the most aggressive pad you can use. is the damage you are reporting pigtails? i can see that occuring with remnants of certain dried product, but truthfully a yellow pad will leave micro-marring with practically any product. some products will finish better than others, but regardless, the finish will be hazy and need refining.

any pictures of the damage of which you are concerned?
 
What kind of yellow pad? Lake Country, Meguiar's, Edge?
 
builthatch said:
as you probably know, a yellow pad is the most aggressive pad you can use. is the damage you are reporting pigtails? i can see that occuring with remnants of certain dried product, but truthfully a yellow pad will leave micro-marring with practically any product. some products will finish better than others, but regardless, the finish will be hazy and need refining.

any pictures of the damage of which you are concerned?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily so, considering that not all yellow pads by all pad makers are equal.
 
builthatch said:
as you probably know, a yellow pad is the most aggressive pad you can use. is the damage you are reporting pigtails? i can see that occuring with remnants of certain dried product, but truthfully a yellow pad will leave micro-marring with practically any product. some products will finish better than others, but regardless, the finish will be hazy and need refining.

any pictures of the damage of which you are concerned?
Click to expand...

Sorry no pictures. It was similar to pig tails. completely random with the oscillation of the pad. It was the typically haze or marring from a yellow pad it looked like i had used some sort of sand paper.

CieraSL said:
What kind of yellow pad? Lake Country, Meguiar's, Edge?
Click to expand...

Sorry for not clarifying that. Lake Country CCS
 
AndrewBall said:
Sorry no pictures. It was similar to pig tails. completely random with the oscillation of the pad. It was the typically haze or marring from a yellow pad it looked like i had used some sort of sand paper.



Sorry for not clarifying that. Lake Country CCS
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How bad was the paint you were working on? According to AG, "Use this pad to apply compounds or polishes to remove severe oxidation, swirls, and scratches. It is the most aggressive and should only be used on oxidized and older finishes. Always follow this pad with an orange or white pad and a fine polish to refine the paint until it is smooth." I would assume you have micro-marring, especially if you are working on softer paint. Have you tried following up with a less aggressive pad and polish combo, such as M205 on a white pad?
 
CieraSL said:
How bad was the paint you were working on? According to AG, "Use this pad to apply compounds or polishes to remove severe oxidation, swirls, and scratches. It is the most aggressive and should only be used on oxidized and older finishes. Always follow this pad with an orange or white pad and a fine polish to refine the paint until it is smooth." I would assume you have micro-marring, especially if you are working on softer paint. Have you tried following up with a less aggressive pad and polish combo, such as M205 on a white pad?
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did try SSR2.5 on a white pad and 205 on a white pad. they made it marginally better. but were not able to remove the tougher scratches.

I feel the clear coat was soft, this car was repainted (poorly) and i sanded with 2500 and then buffed with my rotary 3m compounding pad and 105. it looked great but there were some swirls which i had expected. So i decided to cut with yellow pad and 105 to smooth it out even more. This left really bad marks. So I cut it down again with the rotary and then finished with 205 on a white pad and then Klasse AIO on green.

this was definitely more then micro-marring.
 
To me, a yellow pad and 105 would be the first step if the paint was that bad. I can't imagine going to yellow and 105 after just buffing it out with a rotary. Yellow and 105 will more than likely cause some micro-marring as most people will notice some with 105 and an orange pad, which is less abrasive.

Mark
 
Y2KSVT said:
To me, a yellow pad and 105 would be the first step if the paint was that bad. I can't imagine going to yellow and 105 after just buffing it out with a rotary. Yellow and 105 will more than likely cause some micro-marring as most people will notice some with 105 and an orange pad, which is less abrasive.

Mark
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Yeah, and in hindsight i cant explain why i decided to do that. 205 on a orange or white would have and did remove the swirls. But for some reason i decided yellow. that silly mistake aside. This issues i had were most certainly more then just micro-marring left behind from the yellow pad which i have seen before. These were so aggressive that 205 on white couldn't remove them. I had to cut with my rotary again. and my yellow pad was able to remove them after it was cleaned. Also once the pad was cleaned i no longer had this issue
 
Here's some pictures... the below thread is in my articles list...

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring




Pigtails - Photo courtesy of Mister B
pigtails.jpg




The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring

Micro-Marring - Tick-Marks - DA-Haze

These three terms are pretty much the accepted terms for a scratch pattern left in some paints from the oscillating and rotating action from a compound or polish and a buffing pad when applied using a DA Polisher.

Unlike Cobweb swirls or Rotary Buffer Swirls, the scratch pattern instilled by a dual action polisher is made up of millions of tiny scratches, some are curved or circular but some are straight, like a small tick mark you would make with a pencil if you were keeping track of a count of some type.

Tick Marks are a sign that either the paint is on the soft side, so easily scratched or the pad and compound or polish you're using are too aggressive to finish out without leaving a mark.

In most cases Tick Marks can be removed by re-polishing with a different pad and product combination.

MicromarringTickMarks01.jpg


MicromarringTickMarks02.jpg



:)



:)
 
thanks mike!

looks like it may have been the pad. the marring i am used to from aggressive products isn't what i was seeing but it looks a lot like the two pictures posted above.

i think the paint is really soft. it was repainted as i found when removing emblems and i could see blend lines. so I am basically sanding the entire car so i can attempt to correct this. Luckily these hack jobs put on tons of clear coat.
 
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