paint hardness between colors - clearing up some confusion

[builthatch]

this seems to be an area of confusion, even amongst some pros, so i want to clear something up. the information i am sharing has been provided to me by BASF product support, PPG product support and a automotive paint industry chemistry consultant.

within a given paint system, all else equal (conditions, substrate, application, etc.), the clear coat hardness will not differ between a light base coat color and a dark base coat color. the clear is the same, then the hardness once cured will be the exact same.

the confusion stems from the common knowledge that dark base coats allow flaws to be much more visible. this is a function of optics, not any difference whatsoever in the clear coat on that vs. the clear coat on the same exact car with the same exact paint system but in a lighter color, where it appears to not show marring as easily.

any deviation from this fact means that there is a product issue with the paint system or the clear coat is NOT the same over top of one base coat vs. the one which is being compared. so, if a car uses a tri color paint system with a tinted clear coat, etc.

 

[7PaintGuns]

so, if a car uses a tri color paint system with a tinted clear coat, etc.

So?

 

[builthatch]

So?

so, [for example]

you might prefer "thus" instead of "so".

tri color is an example where the clear is different on one base coat vs. another of a different color within the same paint system.

 

[7PaintGuns]

Sorry, I got confused, I use the same clear coat on all base coat/clear, tri-coat and tinted clear applications. Your analysis on optics is spot on!

 

[builthatch]

Sorry, I got confused, I use the same clear coat on all base coat/clear, tri-coat and tinted clear applications. Your analysis on optics is spot on!

oh ok no problem. thanks for sharing that.

i'm sorry i meant tinted clear, not tri color. unfortunately i can't edit. i was told by them that the component parts of some tinted clears can vary enough from their "regular" clear counterparts where there might be some sort of difference in hardness. but it's independent of the base coat.

so i guess i could have simply posted that the base coat has no bearing on the clear coat hardness if the clear is the same and the base is a different color.

 

[FUNX650]

Disclaimer:
I was taught that CCs'-hardness = CC-paints' density.


•When discussing CC-paint "hardness"...
Seems like there would be the necessity to
include in that discussion the differences in
CC-paints' batches/lot#s...

(especially when there's a change-over being
made between the CC-paints of the several, and
separate paint vendor entities, that OEMs usually
have on hand, trying to make sure to avoid very
costly paint-line shutdowns)...

...that can occur during each and every
production day in their paint kitchens.


•There is, after all, engineering (+/-) tolerances
that are also applicable to paints.
-Not being dead-nuts center, surely could cause
variations in CC density...Ergo: CC-paint hardness.



Bob

 

[builthatch]

Disclaimer:
I was taught that CCs'-hardness = CC-paints' density.


•When discussing CC-paint "hardness"...
Seems like there would be the necessity to
include in that discussion the differences in
CC-paints' batches/lot#s...

(especially when there's a change-over being
made between the CC-paints of the several, and
separate paint vendor entities, that OEMs usually
have on hand, trying to make sure to avoid very
costly paint-line shutdowns)...

...that can occur during each and every
production day in their paint kitchens.


•There is, after all, engineering (+/-) tolerances
that are also applicable to paints.
-Not being dead-nuts center, surely could cause
variations in CC density...Ergo: CC-paint hardness.



Bob

with so many variables in the process, it's possible, even in a factory environment where they strive for consistency during mass production. but hardness has nothing to do with base coat color. that's the main point i'm trying to make with this thread.

all else equal, a darker color won't be softer than a lighter color. that seems to be a line of thinking out there and it's false.

 

[7PaintGuns]

so i guess i could have simply posted that the base coat has no bearing on the clear coat hardness if the clear is the same and the base is a different color.

This is very true if all conditions are equal during application as you had said before. That is great information for people who may not know. Always be prepared to spend more time buffing, polishing, sanding on darker colors that lighter.

 

[builthatch]

This is very true if all conditions are equal during application as you had said before. That is great information for people who may not know. Always be prepared to spend more time buffing, polishing, sanding on darker colors that lighter.

yes indeed. i have a silver metallic car and a gray metallic car. one much lighter than the other. it's amazing how much more the silver car smuggles in terms of defects. multiple light sources, angles and intensities (if possible) whilst inspecting can help prevent those surprises later on that we all hate when you park at night under a rogue metal halide parking lot lamp!

 

[7PaintGuns]

Disclaimer:
I was taught that CCs'-hardness = CC-paints' density.


•When discussing CC-paint "hardness"...
Seems like there would be the necessity to
include in that discussion the differences in
CC-paints' batches/lot#s...

(especially when there's a change-over being
made between the CC-paints of the several, and
separate paint vendor entities, that OEMs usually
have on hand, trying to make sure to avoid very
costly paint-line shutdowns)...

...that can occur during each and every
production day in their paint kitchens.


•There is, after all, engineering (+/-) tolerances
that are also applicable to paints.
-Not being dead-nuts center, surely could cause
variations in CC density...Ergo: CC-paint hardness.



Bob

Awesome post Bob! I'm going to have to think about that one! Volume, thickness, density, hardness...:buffing:

 

[GSKR]

This is very true if all conditions are equal during application as you had said before. That is great information for people who may not know. Always be prepared to spend more time buffing, polishing, sanding on darker colors that lighter.

That's a no brainer,I think everyone knows darker cars need more tlc then perhaps a white,silver,light tan.I do believe not everyone is in formed about the painting process and paint hardness between colors very informative thanks.