paint peeled off customers car when removing 3m tape! customer is asking to pay for damage

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jeff79

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i run a small time headlight restoration business on weekends. several weeks ago i buffed the headlights on this lady's car who had an older Mercedes benz. All went well with the headlight restoration, but when i removed the tape, a very small section of the paint around the light peeled off with the 3m automotive tape i was using! i was shocked because ive done over 500 headlight restorations and had never had an issue with tape damaging paint before. I apologized to the customer and was honest and explained i honestly have no idea why this happened and had to accept responsibility then and there. yesterday i am emailed a quote for nearly $1000(with car rental) from a local body shop..

Looking back i may have jumped the gun a little too quickly. Is it possible that they could had there bumper repainted and it wasnt clear coated properly or for whatever reason the paint was weakened/not healthy?

Has anyone had a similar experience with the paint and how should i go about handling this without getting sued? Any advice at all would be tremendously appreciated
 
Fix it and forget it. The paint not being proper doesnt matter, it didnt peel off on its own. Its a lesson. Im not bashing you or saying you did something wrong Im saying maybe you can learn from it.
 
dcjredline said:
Fix it and forget it. The paint not being proper doesnt matter, it didnt peel off on its own. Its a lesson. Im not bashing you or saying you did something wrong Im saying maybe you can learn from it.
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how can i prevent this from happening in the future and do you have any idea of why this may have occurred to begin with? Also do you think its something a mobile paint chip technician could fix? They are assuming my insurence will pay for the damage, which i dont have.
 
Yes, it happened to me with blue painters tape. It was a SSLaquer paintjob from Maaco. The was no primer underneath, just her shiny red previous color. I didnt take any responsibility, but of course apologized and explained thoroughly. She understood.
 
jrs1418 said:
Yes, it happened to me with blue painters tape. It was a SSLaquer paintjob from Maaco. The was no primer underneath, just her shiny red previous color. I didnt take any responsibility, but of course apologized and explained thoroughly. She understood.
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wow im surprised maaco would do shoddy paint job like that.. Anyhow i got a feeling the lady is going to deny it and say its factory paint. It didnt look like there was primer underneath the paint. it looked like bare metal if i remember correctly. Do you think its possible tape could remove the primer and paint? or is that very unlikely?
 
Odds are the front of the car had some previous repair and it was done poorly. I had this happen this spring a car, however it didn't come off from pulling tape. I was starting my wash process and one pass over the front bumper cover on the VW CC i was working and the clear coated started flying off. It certainly puts you in a bad spot, but you need to be prepared and know that things like this might happen and you will need to step up to cover the cost. I was prepared to pay to have the car fixed I was working on, however I got lucky that the previous repair had a lifetime warranty from his insurance company from when it was fixed previously.
 
I would call the mobile touch up tech. Also Ask if you could get a quote from your body repair shop. They will easily be able to tell if it was a poor repaint. Do you have a shop you trust?
 
There is no way that blue 3M tape pulled off factory paint. Not a chance. That's bad repair and prep work by someone else. Painters Tape is docile unless it has been left on for a LONG time (like months).
 
You did nothing wrong here, but it was still your tape that removed the paint, factory or not. I would try to find a more affordable way to fix it if possible, but you are still responsible.

On a second note, why are you operating a business without insurance? Garage keeper's liability insurance is super cheap. Imagine if this was a more costly repair and you were on the hook for it.
 
Oh man that's a lot of headlamps to do to recover that.
 
Anyway she could go back to Macao and say their job is peeling? Sounds like a bad prep job before the paint was sprayed. Maybe they warranty it within a certain time frame.
 
jeff79 said:
how can i prevent this from happening in the future and do you have any idea of why this may have occurred to begin with? Also do you think its something a mobile paint chip technician could fix? They are assuming my insurence will pay for the damage, which i dont have.
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You will have to maybe look at the paint better next time, be even more careful pulling the tape off / use better technique.

You havent included any pics so no one can comment on how, what, why etc. Show us some pics and maybe someone can help you more.

It more than likely was a poor paint job but that paint was there before you started and not when you were finished, so in my mind it doesn't matter how crappy the paint job was. Now the customer may or may not concede that the paint was cheap and let you off the hook but if not you have to just take the responsibility and fix it, then move on. You cant let this define you, make it right and go forward is my point. Its a stumble not a wall. :props::props: :dblthumb2:
 
Probably a Parking lot repaint very common on vehicles they look good for a while then peel city of clear coat etc. ask the dealers around your area who they use it can be done for cheap


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Did you examine the paint?

Is the orangepeal (texture) different than the rest of the paint?
How is the color match of the bumper vs the rest of the paint?

Is the bumper single-stage and the rest of the car clear coated? This would be a dead give away it was painted.

^^^ These are your best clues it has been repainted.

You never said it was done by Maaco, and truth is they do some very good (and a lot of terrible) paint work.

They have three (3) paint packages... Basic, Preferred, and Premium. Basic is NOT durable and has only a one-year warranty... They rate it only one (1) star for durability! Basic is nothing but junk enamel.

The preferred uses a single-stage urethane, and they rate it three (3) stars for durability. ONLY their two-stage premium service is clear-coated. They give it a five year warranty.


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Now, here is the thing. To owe someone money, you must legally be negligent. Simply put, there has to be a breach of duty that caused harm (i.e. property damage) to another party.

They would need to show Duty, Breach, Causation, Damage...

Sounds to me like they have a Causation & Damage laid out, but the damage may be a bit high. You are only at most required to restore the vehicle to its pre-loss condition anyway. First thing to do is run a CarFAX on that vehicle. If you can demonstrate it has been in an accident involving the bumper you are practically off the hook... the next step is to get a third-party (expert witness) to declare there was inferior work done to it (i.e. Single-Stage vs. Clear-Coated). At that point, you would operate in good faith and agree to bring it back to its pre-loss, post-accident-repair condition.

i.e. Another quick single-state enamel spray job at a place like Macco. Being they will do a whole car for $400, how much do you think they charge to spray a bumper? $1000 is excessive.


As for the rental you should be paying for a comparable rental if you are paying for repairs. You might come up with some split or something.


Personally, even if not negligent, I would take some responsibility and offer a reasonable settlement, but $1000 is pushing it too far for a 10-year-old already cheaply repainted bumper. They are probably quoting for blending into adjacent panels, etc! It would be different if it were a new Mercedes with factory paint, and you smashed that bumper into something...
 
jeff79 said:
how can i prevent this from happening in the future and do you have any idea of why this may have occurred to begin with? Also do you think its something a mobile paint chip technician could fix? They are assuming my insurence will pay for the damage, which i dont have.
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Not a whole lot you can do, but if I'm taping over something sensitive to peeling (badly applied Plastidip or paint) then I do what Mike calls "burning the tape" http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/80428-burning-tape.html.
 
Interesting thread. Crazy situation. But with this...

VP Mark said:
...
On a second note, why are you operating a business without insurance? Garage keeper's liability insurance is super cheap. .
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I have to wonder if this would have been covered under such a policy. I was under the impression the "workmanship" of the detailer was an exclusion on such policies?
 
This is tuff to avoid. You just don't know how the painter prepped the substrate. He may have not used the right grit or missed the spot or didn't wipe it down good enough. Paint needs a mechanical bond. We were even taught the tape test in my paint course. Once painted and cured put some tape to it. I think Mr. Mike Phillips has something on here about using tape.
 
This is difficult to avoid. Basically, you taped to avoid damage to the paint, which got pealed off.

Provided you used the Blue or Green tap, which is proper for the job, I do not see that your work was below the standards of care in that another similar headlight tech/detailer in a similar situation would have not likely done anything different.

The only argument the vehicle owner has is that you are the paid expert, so you should know better. It's tough, but I believe there was no breach of duty or standard of care, so I do not see any negligence. If you argued it right, a court would not likely hold your feet to the fire for $1000.

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Now here is the thing... a customer has the right to get his or her vehicle repaired anywhere he or she wants, so you cannot steer them forcefully to your desired body shop or paint guy. That said, you are under no obligation to make it better than it was before the damage.

Chances are the vehicle had a bad driver who ran into something and the bumper was in a prior collision and only the bumper got repainted... and for cheap. You are not required to therefore pay to repaint the bumper and blend it into the hood and two fenders, which is where the $1000 comes in (my supposition).

Simply put most body shops charge $40 to $50 to insurance companies for paint labor, and there is no way this is a 16 hour job.

If you find the right shop, not only will they do good work, but for about $300 they will repaint the whole bumper and even clear it. You will get it back and the paint will be on there good enough to withstand masking tape no problem!


I should tell you that often bumpers do not match the rest of the paint exact... Even factory bumper paint mismatchs somewhat, sometimes.

For example, most Chevrolet Volts look like this from the factory:
Viridian-Joule-mismatch1.jpg



Should someone ever damage that bumper, a good body shop could probably match at least that good no problem.
 
dcjredline said:
You will have to maybe look at the paint better next time, be even more careful pulling the tape off / use better technique.

You havent included any pics so no one can comment on how, what, why etc. Show us some pics and maybe someone can help you more.

It more than likely was a poor paint job but that paint was there before you started and not when you were finished, so in my mind it doesn't matter how crappy the paint job was. Now the customer may or may not concede that the paint was cheap and let you off the hook but if not you have to just take the responsibility and fix it, then move on. You cant let this define you, make it right and go forward is my point. Its a stumble not a wall. :props::props: :dblthumb2:
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I work at a Mercedes/Volvo dealer and I have seen A LOT of poor paintwork in my day...We actually order replacement Volvo bumper covers pre-painted by VOLVO because several years ago, Volvo had an issue where the release agent wasn't coming off and any paintwork would blow right off. Imagine this...you take your $50k Volvo to a body shop and get it back...then you wash it some time later and the paint flies right off the bumper...right down to the urethane...

One thing I do when I apply tape to paint, when removing I use a hair drier to slightly warm the tape...this weakens the adhesive, lessening the risk of damage, and be carefull when pulling it too.
 
Jbirk said:
Did you examine the paint?

Is the orangepeal (texture) different than the rest of the paint?
How is the color match of the bumper vs the rest of the paint?

Is the bumper single-stage and the rest of the car clear coated? This would be a dead give away it was painted.

^^^ These are your best clues it has been repainted.

You never said it was done by Maaco, and truth is they do some very good (and a lot of terrible) paint work.

They have three (3) paint packages... Basic, Preferred, and Premium. Basic is NOT durable and has only a one-year warranty... They rate it only one (1) star for durability! Basic is nothing but junk enamel.

The preferred uses a single-stage urethane, and they rate it three (3) stars for durability. ONLY their two-stage premium service is clear-coated. They give it a five year warranty.


****************************

Now, here is the thing. To owe someone money, you must legally be negligent. Simply put, there has to be a breach of duty that caused harm (i.e. property damage) to another party.

They would need to show Duty, Breach, Causation, Damage...

Sounds to me like they have a Causation & Damage laid out, but the damage may be a bit high. You are only at most required to restore the vehicle to its pre-loss condition anyway. First thing to do is run a CarFAX on that vehicle. If you can demonstrate it has been in an accident involving the bumper you are practically off the hook... the next step is to get a third-party (expert witness) to declare there was inferior work done to it (i.e. Single-Stage vs. Clear-Coated). At that point, you would operate in good faith and agree to bring it back to its pre-loss, post-accident-repair condition.

i.e. Another quick single-state enamel spray job at a place like Macco. Being they will do a whole car for $400, how much do you think they charge to spray a bumper? $1000 is excessive.


As for the rental you should be paying for a comparable rental if you are paying for repairs. You might come up with some split or something.


Personally, even if not negligent, I would take some responsibility and offer a reasonable settlement, but $1000 is pushing it too far for a 10-year-old already cheaply repainted bumper. They are probably quoting for blending into adjacent panels, etc! It would be different if it were a new Mercedes with factory paint, and you smashed that bumper into something...
Click to expand...


I have NEVER seen a good paint job by Maaco...EVER
 
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