Paint Sealant over wax

Pirate Bman

Pirate Bman

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I apologize if this is in the wrong section. But I have searched many many times for an answer to a somewhat debated question, "Can I use a paint sealant overtop of a wax coat?"
Well in short.... Why not? The answer is Yes you can. Of course this goes with saying that you should have if not already done the work to the point where you can lay down the final stage and be finished the job. I tested on my Grand Am hood test subject section with the Meg's DA power pack system, all the way through, than used extra Carnuaba wax I had left over from Mother's and proceeded to seal it. And after the hour cure time it came out spectacular! And Later today I shall test this on the Mustang itself and top that with my 5050 from Chemical Guys and if it works as well as I believe it will, than it will look better than brand new!
Hoping these are in the correct order, I tried to sort them off the icloud onto the page by the time taken. But I'm Sure you can kinda tell where the stages where ish
 
An observation of mine, much of detailing is more anecdotal than science- and I'm not commenting either way on your process. The real "test" on whether or not sealant can be applied over wax is- time. As I understand sealant, it chemically needs to bond with "paint" and wax prevents that needed bonding; that's seems to be the conventional wisdom. You're questioning that- good for you. So, you asked the question, "Can I use paint sealant over the top of wax?" I don't know, my answer is that time will tell.
 
Pirate Bman said:
I have searched many many times for an answer to a somewhat debated question, "Can I use a paint sealant overtop of a wax coat?"
Well in short.... Why not? The answer is Yes you can.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your insight, and positivity, regarding this much debated topic!!

But, then again, as Albert Einstein used to say:
"The gift of fantasy has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge".

:D

Bob
 
Pirate Bman Thank you for the pics and thank you for your comments on this topic. I have heard of this before from a major wax company when I was looking to buy their wax brand.

Unfortunately, AGO does not carry that brand. When I called the technician of the manufacturer, he suggested I do that.

I am an OLD DUMB (But a good lookin one....LOL) DOG and it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. However, seeing this is way cool as I am going to try that on my friends car. She will be the guinea pig and will test the results. Again, thanks for the post. Once I detail her car I will let you know.
 
You can do it. But, to me it's sort of like putting your underwear on over your pants. A sealant won't bond well to a waxed surface, neither will a coating. It won't hurt anything... But it may not help much either.
 
swanicyouth said:
You can do it. But, to me it's sort of like putting your underwear on over your pants. A sealant won't bond well to a waxed surface, neither will a coating. It won't hurt anything... But it may not help much either.
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:iagree:Maybe we can get Mike P to weigh in on this too.

I am doubtful a sealant would demonstrate it's longevity if it was put on top of a wax.

I just took these pics today a little while ago.

This is PBL Diamond Sealant with Blackfire Black Ice on top, I'm sticking with the sealant then wax combo. When the wax starts wearing off the sealant is still there so you can just top it with another coat of wax.

I put two coats PBL DS 24 hours apart two weekends ago and did the BF BI this past weekend.

This is hands down now my favorite go to combo for black vehicles.




 
You can do it but it negates much of the benefits. Unless the wax is a hybrid type (many are), the strongest bond will be between the sealant and the wax. That means that there is a weak bond between paint and wax/sealant combination. If you will, this is a bit like the biblical story of building one's house on sand - you can build a mansion on the sand but a shack on stony foundations will last longer.

Another possibility is if you are using a sealant which is solvent heavy. The net result here will be a hybridised layer which is a mix of wax and sealant, rather than layers on top of each other. This might work well but the issue is that it might not and no one can guarantee anything about it because it was not the way it was designed to be.
 
I mentioned I would put a sealant over a wax on my friends car for experience sake. I know there will be alot of mixed comments, however, I believe there will be no harm seeing the outcome.

I have now just stuck with 1 protection and that is wax because I wax my car very often....at least 1 time a month. I no longer use sealant.

I like the idea of experimentation. Fun stuff. Bottom line my friends car lo0oks awesome regardless of wax or sealant.
 
Well the paint on the Mustang has been worked as best as I can for now. I didn't want to use too much of the Meg's UC because I didn't want to over do a particular spot and see a second out of place tone in the paint where the scratches used to be, and I used up the entire bottle of glaze, and that did only so much. Reason I chose to experiment with this theory on my much worse and marred black hood was because as we all know black paint is pretty soft and eashy to damage. and considering i had tried before to bring it back only to gloss a little. This test has restored it to almost new condition with a few small scratches I wasn't able to get out. I do still have Micro polishing glaze from mothers i could use as a replacement for the remaining marks before going all out on my blue car.
 
and to Kamakaz1961 I am pleased to hear this from ya! And I agree with Satracker time will tell and hopefully the bond will respond well and open up a exciting new method. If it fails than well at least it was tried and documented. :)
 
Side question though. Since my factory Stang wheels are painted silver theoretically speaking could cleaner wax be used on them?
 
Pirate Bman said:
Side question though. Since my factory Stang wheels are painted silver theoretically speaking could cleaner wax be used on them?
Click to expand...
Yes...So could a cleaner-Sealant:
An AIO is often used on painted wheels.

Bob
 
Pirate Bman said:
Well the paint on the Mustang has been worked as best as I can for now. I didn't want to use too much of the Meg's UC because I didn't want to over do a particular spot and see a second out of place tone in the paint where the scratches used to be, and I used up the entire bottle of glaze, and that did only so much. Reason I chose to experiment with this theory on my much worse and marred black hood was because as we all know black paint is pretty soft and eashy to damage. and considering i had tried before to bring it back only to gloss a little. This test has restored it to almost new condition with a few small scratches I wasn't able to get out. I do still have Micro polishing glaze from mothers i could use as a replacement for the remaining marks before going all out on my blue car.
Click to expand...

The clear coat on a Black Grand Am is no softer than the clear coat on a white Grand Am...the scratches are just more visible, due to the higher contrast
 
Pirate Bman said:
and to Kamakaz1961 I am pleased to hear this from ya! And I agree with Satracker time will tell and hopefully the bond will respond well and open up a exciting new method. If it fails than well at least it was tried and documented. :)
Click to expand...


I hear ya on that. Experimentation whether it is right or wrong teaches us how to get better. I see no harm in your technique and we all can learn from that whether it be effective or not.

As in my previous thread, I no longer put a coat of sealant on my car just a good quality wax. I wax my car every 3 weeks to 1 month regardless if I need it or not. I know a sealant will last longer. That is my current experiment and I actually like just the wax better.

All in fun!!

Im the MAN
 
Kamakaz1961 said:
I hear ya on that. Experimentation whether it is right or wrong teaches us how to get better. I see no harm in your technique and we all can learn from that whether it be effective or not.

As in my previous thread, I no longer put a coat of sealant on my car just a good quality wax. I wax my car every 3 weeks to 1 month regardless if I need it or not. I know a sealant will last longer. That is my current experiment and I actually like just the wax better.

All in fun!!

Im the MAN
Click to expand...

That is very true and my dad used to think i was crazy when I got excited to re wax and do the steps after a couple weeks! It is uber fun. And thats how I've earned countless compliments from total strangers passing by, at the pump, heck even one day at work!:thankyousign::thankyousign::thankyousign::thankyousign::thankyousign::thankyousign::thankyousign:
 
allenk4 said:
The clear coat on a Black Grand Am is no softer than the clear coat on a white Grand Am...the scratches are just more visible, due to the higher contrast
Click to expand...
Ohh honestly for the longest time I was under the impression black was delicate. Maybe I misunderstood that from the video about the Black Ford sale because of the fast drying action of the paint. lol ooh well
 
Has anyone tested this yet? If not let me know because I am sealing and waxing this weekend and I'll do a comparison of this
 
BradsDetailing said:
Has anyone tested this yet? If not let me know because I am sealing and waxing this weekend and I'll do a comparison of this
Click to expand...
In all honesty and sincerity:
It's not necessary to "layer".

But if you decide to do so:
Please apply the Wax atop the Sealant.
This has been the "tried-and-true" methodology for eons.
{OK...maybe not eons...but for many a moon :D}

What will: Experimentation to the otherwise...
net a person in the long run? Scientific proof?

Thinking aloud:
Why not a Coating atop of a Wax?
Why should Coatings be: "Handled With Care"
if Sealants are not?

Why don't folks believe in "bonding" anymore? :cry:


Bob
 
If you really have an urge to experiment it would make more sense to apply a sealant to half the vehicle and a wax to the other. Or you could apply a different LSP to each panel to satisfy your curiosity. That being said so many "waxes" are sealants and so many "sealants" exhibit more wax characteristics, so who knows?
 
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