PC 7336SP - Very Unimpressed

[Malu59RT]

I spent 6 days last week and over 20 hours detailing my M3 to get out swirls, and I was very disappointed with the buffer. 2 hours into using it, the head made a metallic noise over the '5' setting, and it finally pooped out on me with 3 panels left to finish. I had used a rotary before, and the detailing forum on the site I went to highly recommended the PC. I admit, it's good for a beginner, but wanting to do 5-6 cars a week is totally unfeasible with a PC. Also, a decent amount of swirls came out, but there were several extremely fine scratches that were left in the paint that should have come out also. It took way too much time to do the car, and that's one of my biggest complaints (that and the buffer failing mid-job). I plan on getting rid of this PC and buying a rotary (the Dewalt 849) is what I am looking into. However, I am glad that I found Autogeek, as their customer service and the forum/store layout is excellent.

BTW, I highly recommend the 3M Foam Polish for Dark cars. I used the Detailers Pride swirl remover, and 2-3 other products, and was at my wits end until I bought the 3M product. It appears that Saleen281 and I have had similar experiences.

Jason

 

[MikeyC]

Hi Jason,

As you pointed out the PC is really an enthusiasts' tool. It's not really an appropriate tool for professional use as it takes too long to break down a polish. Plus, it doesn't generate a lot of heat as a rotary does. So often two polishing steps with a PC are required instead of one with a rotary to get the same result. Technique is also quite different with a PC compared to a rotary. The PC needs to be moved REALLY slowly across the paint to achieve maximum results. As you already know the PC is a safer, easier to use machine. However, the rotary is much faster but is dangerous in the wrong hands.

If you're already experienced with a rotary then there was not really any reason for you to use a PC. I didn't see a thread from you on S2KI.com on this subject, but had I seen it I would have told you not to bother with a PC.

I'm surprised your PC "pooped out" on you during its first use. I've had mine for a couple years now and it's never gone out on me. I also know Scottwax on Autopia used the same PC professionally for several years before it pooped out. Did you buy one that was refurbished?

 

[Malu59RT]

Hi Jason,

As you pointed out the PC is really an enthusiasts' tool. It's not really an appropriate tool for professional use as it takes too long to break down a polish. Plus, it doesn't generate a lot of heat as a rotary does. So often two polishing steps with a PC are required instead of one with a rotary to get the same result. Technique is also quite different with a PC compared to a rotary. The PC needs to be moved REALLY slowly across the paint to achieve maximum results. As you already know the PC is a safer, easier to use machine. However, the rotary is much faster but is dangerous in the wrong hands.

If you're already experienced with a rotary then there was not really any reason for you to use a PC. I didn't see a thread from you on S2KI.com on this subject, but had I seen it I would have told you not to bother with a PC.

I'm surprised your PC "pooped out" on you during its first use. I've had mine for a couple years now and it's never gone out on me. I also know Scottwax on Autopia used the same PC professionally for several years before it pooped out. Did you buy one that was refurbished?

MikeyC, you will remember my screen name on the Lowe's post .I think more than anything, I was just upset that it died in the middle of a job. On top of that, there was very bad vibration when I used it. You will notice that I picked up one of the "clearance" ones for $89.99 brand new, so it's pretty bad a brand new one messed up that fast. In fact, probably the only thing I enjoyed using it for was applying wax. I usually apply wax by hand.

I've been detailing cars since I was 12, but it's not a full time job for me. I do my friends and family members cars all the time for free, but to do those cars now, I will need to pick up a rotary. On the bright side, the Edge pad kit was a great product, but my adapter seemed a little hard to push in to release the pads. I will try to post up pics when I finish the interior of the car.

Jason

 

[MikeyC]

Yeah the PC is know to vibrate a lot. I'm glad to hear you like the Edge pad system. The machine vibrates even more when you use velcro pads if you can believe it. One tip though . . . if you put one hand on the head of the machine instead of using the side handle the machine is easier to control and makes less noise. The black plastic cap on the head of the machine is not attached very well for some reason.

I would definitely try to bring the machine back to where you bought it. There's no reason it should poop out so quickly. Then get yourself a rotary. You'll be much happier since you already know how to use one. If I was experienced with a rotary I would not be using a PC.

Aside from the DeWalt you may also want to consider the Hitachi and the Makita. I understand those machines are lighter than the DeWalt which can result in less fatigue when detailing.

 

[ScottB]

For the novice and weekend detailer a Cyclo or PC is still the better investment. Safety is the major concern. Once you realize and obtain the learning curve of the PC, you will be amazed at what it can do. I will agree that a rotary has a place in detailing, but its on a professional level or someone graduating from their PC to the next level.

(no links to competitors detailing sites , please)

 

[Malu59RT]

For the novice and weekend detailer a Cyclo or PC is still the better investment. Safety is the major concern. Once you realize and obtain the learning curve of the PC, you will be amazed at what it can do. I will agree that a rotary has a place in detailing, but its on a professional level or someone graduating from their PC to the next level.

(no links to competitors detailing sites , please)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am a weekend detailer, but in anything, I guess I use more common sense than others when I use equipment, especially when people repeatedly warn you not to keep it in one spot, don't turn the speed up too much, etc. I don't think the time that I spent with the PC would even out to a better investment. I sat there the entire time wondering if everyone else really was taking this much time to remove their swirls. In the past, my only problem was not having the right type of pad for the job.

Also, I apologize for the site link, but I was curious on how it is a competitor site? There is not a classified section or store, for detailing supplies. In fact, that site is where I got a link to Autogeek, and I would never have known about it if it wasn't for them.

Jason

 

[ryandamartini]

I spent 6 days last week and over 20 hours detailing my M3 to get out swirls, and I was very disappointed with the buffer. 2 hours into using it, the head made a metallic noise over the '5' setting, and it finally pooped out on me with 3 panels left to finish. I had used a rotary before, and the detailing forum on the site I went to highly recommended the PC. I admit, it's good for a beginner, but wanting to do 5-6 cars a week is totally unfeasible with a PC. Also, a decent amount of swirls came out, but there were several extremely fine scratches that were left in the paint that should have come out also. It took way too much time to do the car, and that's one of my biggest complaints (that and the buffer failing mid-job). I plan on getting rid of this PC and buying a rotary (the Dewalt 849) is what I am looking into. However, I am glad that I found Autogeek, as their customer service and the forum/store layout is excellent.

BTW, I highly recommend the 3M Foam Polish for Dark cars. I used the Detailers Pride swirl remover, and 2-3 other products, and was at my wits end until I bought the 3M product. It appears that Saleen281 and I have had similar experiences.

Jason

Sounds like a technique problem to me. To go straight out and be unimpressed with a tool because you dont know how to use it to its full extent is not right. It is very rare for a new PC to just dump on you like that. You should learn how to use one before going straight to a rotary however.

Also, you dont one step polish with a pc. To use a more abrasive polish first, then you almost always have to clean up with a finishing polish. The pc is not a one step tool.

And as far as it not being feesible to do 5-6 cars a week with the PC, take a look at Justin's work. He has made some truelly amazing transformations happen with the PC. Half the ability of using a DA OR rotary polisher is the correct knowlege of pad and product choice.

Here is a example of what a PC can do in the hands of a 17 year old whos read up on their information for a long tiem before making an investment such as the PC:

Patient: 1995 camry, rental car purchased by my grandmother in 1996, and given to me in 2005.

This was the car, ALL OVER

One pass of XMT3 polish on yellow pad

Close up of after xmt3

After SSR 2.5 / ssr1 mix 80 /20

 

[abrcrombe]

I have the same model and it works great, you should bring it back because I think they have like a 30 day return policy and that is a defect in the product if it already broke. A PC is very capable, but if you already know the rotary, you shouldn't really step down to a PC for polishing as others have said above. I know some who use a rotary for polishing and a PC for glazes, waxes, etc. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[Malu59RT]

Sounds like a technique problem to me. To go straight out and be unimpressed with a tool because you dont know how to use it to its full extent is not right. It is very rare for a new PC to just dump on you like that. You should learn how to use one before going straight to a rotary however.

Also, you dont one step polish with a pc. To use a more abrasive polish first, then you almost always have to clean up with a finishing polish. The pc is not a one step tool.

And as far as it not being feesible to do 5-6 cars a week with the PC, take a look at Justin's work. He has made some truelly amazing transformations happen with the PC. Half the ability of using a DA OR rotary polisher is the correct knowlege of pad and product choice.

Here is a example of what a PC can do in the hands of a 17 year old whos read up on their information for a long tiem before making an investment such as the PC:

I never said the PC didn't remove any swirls, but the time that it took was not something that I need to deal with. If you have read above, I have rotary experience, in fact, that is what I learned to machine polish with, but it was borrowed from a friend and he wanted it back, which is why I was in the market for a polisher. At the rate that I was moving on the car (making sure the polish actually worked in and broke down) and with having about 2 hrs a night to work on the car, I don't see how I could do 5-6 cars in a week with a PC. I did my research on the PC before I bought it, and people were getting great results, but I guess I never knew that it would not provide better results than a rotary. No one was posting "look, no swirls, but it would be better with a rotary" It was my mistake and I will correct it by getting the correct tool for the job.

BTW, partial list of cars I've done with the rotary before:
02 Z06
00 Prelude w/$2k custom paintjob
02 S2000 w/$2k custom paintjob
03 MB S500
02 MB E430
04 GSXR-1000 w/$2500 custom paintjob
and I will redo my 05 M3 with the new one, and do my 06 GS430 with the rotary friends S4, Supra, and S2000

Jason

 

[ryandamartini]

I never said the PC didn't remove any swirls, but the time that it took was not something that I need to deal with. If you have read above, I have rotary experience, in fact, that is what I learned to machine polish with, but it was borrowed from a friend and he wanted it back, which is why I was in the market for a polisher. At the rate that I was moving on the car (making sure the polish actually worked in and broke down) and with having about 2 hrs a night to work on the car, I don't see how I could do 5-6 cars in a week with a PC. I did my research on the PC before I bought it, and people were getting great results, but I guess I never knew that it would not provide better results than a rotary. No one was posting "look, no swirls, but it would be better with a rotary" It was my mistake and I will correct it by getting the correct tool for the job.

BTW, partial list of cars I've done with the rotary before:
02 Z06
00 Prelude w/$2k custom paintjob
02 S2000 w/$2k custom paintjob
03 MB S500
02 MB E430
04 GSXR-1000 w/$2500 custom paintjob
and I will redo my 05 M3 with the new one, and do my 06 GS430 with the rotary friends S4, Supra, and S2000

Jason

I didnt say you had no experience with a rotary, if I over reacted, forgive me. Its crazy how many people go nuts because the PC didnt do everything they had hoped or overhoped.

If you have already mastered the rotary, just return the pc for another and use it for soft paints. On hard paints however, that is when the roatary is needed.

Where did you first learn how to use the rotary? Its just so unusual to go straight into one! Also if you are going to do more high end cars, invest in a paint guage. There are a few people around here that abuse their cars, get them buffed out and repeat. The result is angry owners with no clearcote.

This can help you avoid clear failure issues with the rotary! Its taken me so long to get one just because Ive been saving for the dam paint guage as well.

-Ryan

-Ryan

 

[Saleen281]

I spent 6 days last week and over 20 hours detailing my M3 to get out swirls, and I was very disappointed with the buffer. 2 hours into using it, the head made a metallic noise over the '5' setting, and it finally pooped out on me with 3 panels left to finish. I had used a rotary before, and the detailing forum on the site I went to highly recommended the PC. I admit, it's good for a beginner, but wanting to do 5-6 cars a week is totally unfeasible with a PC. Also, a decent amount of swirls came out, but there were several extremely fine scratches that were left in the paint that should have come out also. It took way too much time to do the car, and that's one of my biggest complaints (that and the buffer failing mid-job). I plan on getting rid of this PC and buying a rotary (the Dewalt 849) is what I am looking into. However, I am glad that I found Autogeek, as their customer service and the forum/store layout is excellent.

BTW, I highly recommend the 3M Foam Polish for Dark cars. I used the Detailers Pride swirl remover, and 2-3 other products, and was at my wits end until I bought the 3M product. It appears that Saleen281 and I have had similar experiences.

Jason

Jason- agree with all your points.

I personally recommend a DeWalt unit over the other ones, weight not withstanding.

If you PM me, I will give you a link to a setup for the DeWalt that will make you cream your pants. :cheers:

 

[Kelso]

ok....this will be a bit harsh but theres no other way to say it. you f*cked up. no offense meant but you must not have used it correctly. especially since it died like that, either the machine was defective or you did something wrong like applying a lot of pressure. also it just works in a different and safer method than a rotary. its a trade off. safety with a PC, speed with a rotary. its not like its a turtle though, just gotta get used to it.

 

[ryandamartini]

ok....this will be a bit harsh but theres no other way to say it. you f*cked up. no offense meant but you must not have used it correctly. especially since it died like that, either the machine was defective or you did something wrong like applying a lot of pressure. also it just works in a different and safer method than a rotary. its a trade off. safety with a PC, speed with a rotary. its not like its a turtle though, just gotta get used to it.

He could have had a defective model. Unless he was using it to power a merry go round, it shouldnt have died with him just polishing.

 

[Malu59RT]

ok....this will be a bit harsh but theres no other way to say it. you f*cked up. no offense meant but you must not have used it correctly. especially since it died like that, either the machine was defective or you did something wrong like applying a lot of pressure. also it just works in a different and safer method than a rotary. its a trade off. safety with a PC, speed with a rotary. its not like its a turtle though, just gotta get used to it.

It's nice that I f'd up, and not Porter Cable who is apparently god-like and incapable of manufacturing a bad unit. It was a brand new unit, I didn't even open up the box until I was ready to use it on the car. Maybe I ran the unit too long, maybe I have bad luck. In any case, it is of no concern to me. I will not be owning it, and if you have more advice regarding tips on a rotary, I'd be happy to hear it. It's like a pair of safety scissors, it might do a basic job, but it won't do the same thing as a pair of normal scissors. If I want to sit and cut paper all day, that's fine, but I need a better tool that's all. The only thing it was nice for was applying wax, but $100 is more than I want to spend for a machine to apply wax.

 

[ScottB]

I think this post shows what even a semi-professional can do with a rotary, and thats someone that knows how to use one, and works on multiple cars each day.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3150
This is why the PC is a valuable tool for the inexperienced, other than throwing the machine at the car, it aint gonna do to much damage. But as you said correction work will take alot of time, and alot of patience, much more inclined to the novice weekend detailer.

As for the links, we do not allow links to sellers, other detailing boards, and forums that could compete or infringe on each other copyright. A quick look and I decided better safe than sorry.

It is also my opinion that this post is starting to get dirty, with finger pointing and unneeded remarks from everyone. Nobody is judge, jury, or executioner. Lets keep it civil and allow everyone to bring their opinion to the table without finger pointing and name calling. Machines can fail ... and owners have right to their opinion.

 

[Kelso]

lol, i was kinda half kidding with you. sometimes i forget sarcasm doesnt travel through the keyboard, sorry. i said either you messed up or you got a defective part. but it sounds like it worked for a while and then died. but not knowing how it "died" im going to mae assumptions like maybe you applied too much pressure which is normal i your new to the PC.
but you say it wasnt good for anything but applying wax, which is wrong because it removes swirls and light scratches very well. it didnt gain its high regard by being a wax applicator is all im saying here. in fact the one thing i hate is applying and removing wax via pc

 

[Saleen281]

I think this post shows what even a semi-professional can do with a rotary, and thats someone that knows how to use one, and works on multiple cars each day.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3150

No offense- but he DOESN'T know how to use one if he's buffing edges and small areas like the underside of a trunk lid. And this is not a shot at the guy- lord knows I slung pieces across the room when it caught on an edge, and I've swirled up a couple panels before I finally "got it".

I won't disagree with you though on the fact of a rotary being like sandpaper in the hands of someone who has no idea how to use one.

New rotarys with speed control, and newer foam pads really do minimze the risk of burning paint, or tearing something up. You have to be patient, and you have to have some knowledge. Too bad someone can't make a vid of using a rotary, because the PC can work very well at "finessing" the finish after getting the bad places out.

 

[P1et]

Screw the PC failing, let's see some pics of the '05 M3!!!

 

[Nica]

Screw the PC failing, let's see some pics of the '05 M3!!!

:iagree:
Sounds like you got and you detail some :righton: cars. Post some pictures, it would be good to see, well I'm interested

 

[Malu59RT]

Screw the PC failing, let's see some pics of the '05 M3!!!

The car is in the garage until Friday when I can vacuum, do the leather interior, exhaust tips, and possibly pull of the wheels to clean the inside. It's a competition package, so it has the BBS style wheels. I can reach through the spokes if I'm careful, but it gets painful after a while.

This week has been spent taking care of my friend's cars. He's out of town and I discovered that someone egged his supra, s4, and s2000 so I had to go clean those cars. It sucks because he just got his his 98 Supra that was in pretty mint condition. I should have pics this weekend.

I'm sorry if it seemed that I was ragging on the PC. I know it works, otherwise I would have never bought it, but just like everyone said, I stepped down from a rotary to the PC, which is the wrong direction to go.

Mod, sorry if I offended anyone.

Jason