PC7424 XP What am i doing wrong???

[badabing]

hello all,

first post. anyway longtime lurker. I've been reading up for the past year and watching all kinds of videos from Mike Phillips, Junkman and others.

Yesterday, I tried out my PC XP for the first time on a real project. Polishing my Vivid Black 2006 HD Dyna SuperGlide. I am trying to get rid of some swirl/scratch marks instilled when someone who was trying to do me a favor wiped the bike down when it was dusty (and dry).

I am also trying to get of some deeper defects that I cant explain how they got there.

Anyway, i was using a Meguiars 3" backing plate with LC Hydro 4" pads with SF4500, M205, and M105 and HD Scratch and Swirl Remover(in that order) trying to remove the defects.

My issues are:

The pad seems to stop spinning with only (what i consider to be moderate pressure) on speed 5 or even 6. I know you are supposed to be around 8 lbs of pressure but i feel like its stopping with less than that. Any less pressure and than what I was using and I feel like I would lose control of the polisher.

Also, after about 30 mins of use, I only got 1 side of the tank done, the backing plate flew off. Upon further inspection, the threads in the backing plate were completely gone. I feel like the backing plate was on tightly because the washer (spacer) that comes in the kit left an indentation in the top of the backing plate.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Push harder and you'll see the pad rotate.

There's a weird phenomena that takes place when you just use light pressure and that is the pad will stall out, seem to flutter and even run backwards.

Push down FIRMLY and watch the pad start to rotate.

 

[tuscarora dave]

That's a first, never heard of the threads being gone from a backing plate arbor like that. It must have loosened up during use and became damaged as it was being used.

Did it damage the threads inside the polisher spindle where the backing plate screws into?

Time to get another backing plate and try again. I'd think what went wrong would be that the backing plate wasn't tightened down enough.

Seems you're working backwards with the products being used too, unless that's how you were trying to go least aggressive first to see what would work to get the correction done on your bike. Did you get to work long enough to make a determination as to which product is going to work for your Vivid Black paint? Sounds like not.

I think it's Forum member TL Mitchel that has a lot of experience on that hard to finish HD paint. You may want to search his threads until your new backing plate arrives.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Read through each of these too...



DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


Have you marked the back of your backing plate?

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.


[video=youtube_share;QM8PnDooZP8&hd=1"]How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher - YouTube[/video]



And give this a read-through also...

Factors that can cause a pad to stop rotating on a DA Polisher

 

[Chevota Guy]

I'm pretty new to the PC DA, but my experience is that it is much easier to get pad stall when going over strongly curved surfaces. On relatively flat surfaces, it takes much more pressure to stall the pad. Could just be my technique as I'm stll learning, but Ive managed to do fine on curves, it just takes longer. I consider that somewhat of a safety feature for curves as it helps prevent burn through. Good luck.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Also, after about 30 mins of use, I only got 1 side of the tank done, the backing plate flew off.

Upon further inspection, the threads in the backing plate were completely gone. I feel like the backing plate was on tightly because the washer (spacer) that comes in the kit left an indentation in the top of the backing plate.

What am I doing wrong?

Like Dave, I've never heard of this before?


A: Either the threads were messed up to start with.

B: It wasn't tight in the spindle and action of the tool and usage ground them off.


I'm not sure what else could explain missing threads? Hopefully the threads inside the spindle are not stripped out.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'm pretty new to the PC DA, but my experience is that it is much easier to get pad stall when going over stronly curved surfaces.

That's a great point too...

Motorcycle tanks are bascially one big curved panel.

The most you can do for a situation like this is to use the max speed setting and practice very hard at holding the pad flat to the surface, not at an angle.


Still need to figure out and fix the thread issue on the backing plate and the spindle.


:dunno:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Anyway, i was using a Meguiars 3" backing plate

This one?

 

[cmoneyinc]

Badabing: I feel your pain. I have a Harley Night train that I have used the PCXP on as well. The tank is very challenging, because as others have mentioned, it's basically one big curved panel. Rest assured that with more practice and patience, you'll be fine. It's way harder than polishing the flat panels of a car, and my tank is way harder than polishing say the rear fender (bobtail) of my bike.

 

[badabing]

Did it damage the threads inside the polisher spindle where the backing plate screws into?

With the 3" Kit as Mike has shown above, the backing plate is female as is the PC and they give you a male to male adapter. The assembly separated where the backing plate and the adapter connect. The threads in the backing plate (made of plastic?) completely gone. The threads on the adapter are perfect.

Time to get another backing plate and try again. I'd think what went wrong would be that the backing plate wasn't tightened down enough.

Seems you're working backwards with the products being used too, unless that's how you were trying to go least aggressive first to see what would work to get the correction done on your bike. Did you get to work long enough to make a determination as to which product is going to work for your Vivid Black paint? Sounds like not.

I think it's Forum member TL Mitchel that has a lot of experience on that hard to finish HD paint. You may want to search his threads until your new backing plate arrives.

Thanks for the tips. Might get the LC backing plate this time. Different construction. I was working least aggressive to most to see what would work.

Read through each of these too...



DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


Have you marked the back of your backing plate?

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.


How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher - YouTube



And give this a read-through also...

Factors that can cause a pad to stop rotating on a DA Polisher

Backing plate marked. I will re-read the posts and watch the videos again. Thanks.

Like Dave, I've never heard of this before?


A: Either the threads were messed up to start with.

B: It wasn't tight in the spindle and action of the tool and usage ground them off.


I'm not sure what else could explain missing threads? Hopefully the threads inside the spindle are not stripped out.

PC itself is A-OK

That's a great point too...

Motorcycle tanks are bascially one big curved panel.

The most you can do for a situation like this is to use the max speed setting and practice very hard at holding the pad flat to the surface, not at an angle.


Still need to figure out and fix the thread issue on the backing plate and the spindle.


:dunno:

pretty much except for the very top of the tank, it is all curved. very little pad contacting the surface as you come down the sides and under. i tried to use the technique in your video where you did the fender of a 964 porsche (rolling the PC). I am ordering 3" pads with the new backing plate to see if this makes it easier.

This one?

That's the one.

 

[badabing]

Also, while I have everyone's attention. Is the counterweight that is in the PC now (reads "Use 5" Pad only) ok for the 4" or 3" pads I am going to use?

Thanks for all the quick responses.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

With the 3" Kit as Mike has shown above, the backing plate is female as is the PC and they give you a male to male adapter.

The assembly separated where the backing plate and the adapter connect.

When I assemble these I tighten the hell out of them.

The threads in the backing plate (made of plastic?) completely gone. The threads on the adapter are perfect.

This 3" backing plate is not the best construction design for the kind of work you're trying to do.

Here's the one you want...


LC-43-073DA Dual Action 3 Inch Flexible Backing Plate





:xyxthumbs:

 

[cmoneyinc]

Also, while I have everyone's attention. Is the counterweight that is in the PC now (reads "Use 5" Pad only) ok for the 4" or 3" pads I am going to use?

Thanks for all the quick responses.

Yes, you're good to go. If you were using bigger pads like 6"-7.5", you'd probably want to switch to the bigger counterweight.

 

[parttimer]

Also I thought I saw the 4 inch pads should be used on a lower speed? Or was it just the 3 inch?

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Also I thought I saw the 4 inch pads should be used on a lower speed? Or was it just the 3 inch?

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

If you're trying to remove swirls and scratches that means you're trying to remove some paint.

If you're trying to remove some paint you need the pad rotating/oscillating over the surface, not just oscillating or vibrating against it.

You run the polisher at a speed that maintains pad rotation. If you can maintain pad rotation on the 3-4 setting then you're good to go.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[swanicyouth]

I agree you need a different BP, I use the LC its very good. However, I wouldn't be using a 3" BP with 4" pads. I would use a 3.5" BP. I hate to tell you this, but low profile 3" pads would work much better because they have less height and mass to spin. I don't think they sell the low profile 3" HT pads here.

I would either get a 3.5" plate to use with 4" pads, or get 3" pads to work with a 3" (2 & 7/8") plate. Either way will be a vast improvement.

 

[DazzleFX]

Mike, After watching the video below I am wondering if in my attempt last week to polish my BMW I didn't use enough pressure or used too much. I could see the line but it looked like multiple lines spaced out as it rotated. The line I see here is clearly visible as it goes round.

Read through each of these too...



DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


Have you marked the back of your backing plate?

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.


[video=youtube_share;QM8PnDooZP8&hd=1"]How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher - YouTube[/video]



And give this a read-through also...

Factors that can cause a pad to stop rotating on a DA Polisher

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, After watching the video below I am wondering if in my attempt last week to polish my BMW I didn't use enough pressure or used too much.

I could see the line but it looked like multiple lines spaced out as it rotated. The line I see here is clearly visible as it goes round.

That's normal, that's just oscillation and variance.

If you're on the 5-6 speed setting, you're applying firm pressure, using good abrasive technology and you SEE the swirls coming out of the paint then you're doing it right.

Keep in mind when I made that video, one hand is holding the polisher and the other hand is holding my iPhone.

 

[tuscarora dave]

With the 3" Kit as Mike has shown above, the backing plate is female as is the PC and they give you a male to male adapter. The assembly separated where the backing plate and the adapter connect. The threads in the backing plate (made of plastic?) completely gone. The threads on the adapter are perfect.

Oh, I see.. I have a 3M 3inch backing plate that is seemingly the same thing except it's yellow. I guess the resulting failure could have been either under tightening or over tightening, who knows. When I bought mine I was shocked at the price of it and will only ever use it with one particular thread setup so when I installed the 5/16" 24 arbor into the backing plate I used a drop or two of Loctite on the threads.

Kind of a mute point in your case as you'll be going with the LC backing plate but a tip for anyone else who buys that particular backing plate system for use on one style of polisher only. I add that last "one style of polisher only" comment because Who knows if the Loctite would remove the plastic threads in the event one should decide to remove the arbor that was Loctited.

Thanks for the tips. Might get the LC backing plate this time. Different construction. I was working least aggressive to most to see what would work.

You're welcome for the tips, I try to help where I can.

Good job on working from least aggressive first. Too bad you had the backing plate failure before really getting a feel for what would be the magic bullet, if there is a magic bullet for "Vivid Black" HD paint.

I seem to recall reading forum member TLMitchell's accounts of struggle to get HD Vivid Black to finish perfectly without getting toweling marks back in the paint upon product wipe off.

I did a Black Kawasaki that was like that, drove me nuts and the customer thought I was nuts too, because he couldn't even see the marks I was talking about. Good luck with that paint and please post up your experience with it.

PC itself is A-OK

Great!!

pretty much except for the very top of the tank, it is all curved. very little pad contacting the surface as you come down the sides and under. i tried to use the technique in your video where you did the fender of a 964 porsche (rolling the PC). I am ordering 3" pads with the new backing plate to see if this makes it easier.

I've done quite a few Harley (and other brand bikes) paint corrections and found that a 3.5" backing plate and green and white Cyclo pads do the best work on them because of the Cyclo pad's ability to compress and contour to the curvature of tanks and fenders. Their orange pad is quite a bit stiffer and doesn't contour so well so it will leave behind more hazing with a DA polisher or holograms with a rotary polisher. Sometimes it's use is necessary though, when tackling more severe defects.

As a last (or most severe) resort, Cyclo makes nice 4 inch wool pads that work well on a rotary polisher. Here are a few links to some of the pads and plate's I recommend.

For a PC or other similar DA polishers for use with 4" pads.

3.5" Dual Action Flexible Backing Plate- porter cable 7424XP hook and loop backing plate 3.5 inch.

For rotary and use with 4" pads.

Rotary 3 inch Backing Plate

The foam pads that I have found to work best on bikes.

4 Pack Cyclo Premium Green Foam Pads

This is the best 4" foam finishing pad there is as far as I'm concerned and I've tried many brands.

4 Pack Cyclo Premium White Foam Pad

The orange foam cutting, you really should have these on hand if you'll be doing bikes regularly.

4 Pack Cyclo Premium Orange Foam Pads

These wool pads last a long time, in fact all Cyclo pads are pretty tough pads that far outperform and outlast Lake Country pads simply because of the double glued hook and loop backing on the Cyclo pads.

Well upon looking for the wool pads I realize that since Buff&Shine (supposedly) is now making pads for Cyclo, AGO no longer has the wool pads that I relied on for years. (I hate how economic struggle changes things, and usually not for the better) I can say through experience that the foam pads are still a good quality purchase with great performance, but unfortunately I can no longer speak for Cyclo wool pads.

Hope all of this help you and/or others, TD

 

[badabing]

When I assemble these I tighten the hell out of them.





This 3" backing plate is not the best construction design for the kind of work you're trying to do.

Here's the one you want...


LC-43-073DA Dual Action 3 Inch Flexible Backing Plate





:xyxthumbs:

just ordered it.

I agree you need a different BP, I use the LC its very good. However, I wouldn't be using a 3" BP with 4" pads. I would use a 3.5" BP. I hate to tell you this, but low profile 3" pads would work much better because they have less height and mass to spin. I don't think they sell the low profile 3" HT pads here.

I would either get a 3.5" plate to use with 4" pads, or get 3" pads to work with a 3" (2 & 7/8") plate. Either way will be a vast improvement.

is HT Hydro Tech? If so, i ordered some 3" HT pads to go with my new backing plate. Thanks for the tips.