Pinnacle Advanced or Wolfgang 3.0?

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BobWhite

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New Audi with Black Metallic paint.

Hood had a bunch of acid rain spots. In my stupidity, I used an old wool pad on my old school B&D orbital and it apparently had some old compound and/or grit in it. The old pad scratched the paint pretty good in a beveled/curved area on the hood before I caught it.

Then used 1500, then 3000 3M Trizact and then Trizact finishing polish with my PC RO with appropriate LC CCS pads. The process got most of the scratches out, but not 100%. There are still some swirls and even some light scratches. Don’t want to hit it agiain with sandpaper, nor do I want to heavy cut it. The area that is not fixed is maybe 10 inches long and 2-3 inches wide and only myself or knowledgeable people would notice the defect. Problem is that I know it is there:eek:

So I am looking at the Pinnacle Advanced swirl remover followed by Advanced finishing polish or the Wolfgang total swirl remover 3.0 followed by the 3.0 finish glaze.

Was also thinking about Meguiars M205.

All the rest of my products are pretty old, so I would rather buy new technology.

So, which product should I go with?
 
Audi has very hard paint so I am curious to understand why not take the risk with a good and current compound. For german paint systems I gravitate to Menzerna; more options. TSR 3.0 never cut as well and I never used Pinnacle because Menzerna works. ;-)
 
I did pick up Menzerna 2500, along with the WG. I will try the milder products first as I don’t want to burn thru the clear.

Have not tried any of the new products yet.
 
What polisher is being used? Asking with the assumption that menzerna still uses diminishing abrasives and some polishers don't break these down as intended. Maybe this has changed.
 
BobWhite said:
I did pick up Menzerna 2500, along with the WG. I will try the milder products first as I don’t want to burn thru the clear.

Have not tried any of the new products yet.
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Good luck but you gotta really be special to burn through Audi clear. I have forced rotation; never got close.

BSoares said:
I think Wolfgang TSR and Menzerna 2500 are pretty much the same.
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What makes you say this? In all of my test spots TSR is not bad at all, zerna always surpasses though just enough.

dublifeMKVII said:
What polisher is being used? Asking with the assumption that menzerna still uses diminishing abrasives and some polishers don't break these down as intended. Maybe this has changed.
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Never heard of this before. Do you have references in other articles and such on the Web? I'm interested in the read.
 
mwoolfso said:
What makes you say this? In all of my test spots TSR is not bad at all, zerna always surpasses though just enough.
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Very similar cut/performance. The abrasives in TSR are made by Menzerna and my guess is that they use the same stuff from the 2500 in their product line.
 
mwoolfso said:
Good luck but you gotta really be special to burn through Audi clear. I have forced rotation; never got close
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LOL!

Problem is that it’s my first Audi, so I am running blind as to how thick or thin the clear is.

Other problem is that the discussed scratches are in the rounded area of a flat to round to flat hood. Picture the edge of a hood by the fender which is flat. Then as you go towards the center of the hood, the flat drops off into a concave (rounded) area and then goes flat again. Too much pressure in the concave part could lead to burn through. Come too high for too long and you could burn thru the flat edge.

Normally, none of that would be an issue if I was using my old school products, but as I said, they are all way too old to use. The 3M product got most of it, but I didn’t want to push it. The scratches may very well come right out with any of the new products, but not knowing how any of them work is a bit scary when it comes to a literally brand new A6.

I will likely go with the lightest product first and go from there.
 
mwoolfso said:
Good luck but you gotta really be special to burn through Audi clear. I have forced rotation; never got close.



What makes you say this? In all of my test spots TSR is not bad at all, zerna always surpasses though just enough.



Never heard of this before. Do you have references in other articles and such on the Web? I'm interested in the read.
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Sorry i don't have any references for this. It has been a few years but my first big purchase here on AG was a PC with a menzerna combo and I remember reading (somewhere) that in order for diminishing abrasives to truly work as intended, that you need a tool powerful enough to 'diminish' the abrasive. The key I think is that it needs to happen before it flashes and maybe a PC can't do this. Coincidentally, not long after I was working on a friends E500 AMG which is a ceramic clear and the finished product seemed pretty darn good. IDK it seemed to make sense when I read it and it stuck in my head.
 
dublifeMKVII said:
Sorry i don't have any references for this. It has been a few years but my first big purchase here on AG was a PC with a menzerna combo and I remember reading (somewhere) that in order for diminishing abrasives to truly work as intended, that you need a tool powerful enough to 'diminish' the abrasive. The key I think is that it needs to happen before it flashes and maybe a PC can't do this. Coincidentally, not long after I was working on a friends E500 AMG which is a ceramic clear and the finished product seemed pretty darn good. IDK it seemed to make sense when I read it and it stuck in my head.
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Got it. DAT break down regardless of the type of polisher AGO sells.
 
BobWhite said:
LOL!

Problem is that it’s my first Audi, so I am running blind as to how thick or thin the clear is.

Other problem is that the discussed scratches are in the rounded area of a flat to round to flat hood. Picture the edge of a hood by the fender which is flat. Then as you go towards the center of the hood, the flat drops off into a concave (rounded) area and then goes flat again. Too much pressure in the concave part could lead to burn through. Come too high for too long and you could burn thru the flat edge.

Normally, none of that would be an issue if I was using my old school products, but as I said, they are all way too old to use. The 3M product got most of it, but I didn’t want to push it. The scratches may very well come right out with any of the new products, but not knowing how any of them work is a bit scary when it comes to a literally brand new A6.

I will likely go with the lightest product first and go from there.
Click to expand...

That's reasonable.
 
BSoares said:
Very similar cut/performance. The abrasives in TSR are made by Menzerna and my guess is that they use the same stuff from the 2500 in their product line.
Click to expand...

From what I have read in the past (and recall), Menzerna developed the product based on PBMG's requirements. Arguably they may be "similar" but they don't perform the same in all situations.
 
dublifeMKVII said:
So you are saying diminishing abrasives break down the same whether you are using a PC, Flex, or Rotary?
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DAT abrasives are going to break down with friction. Even when using low machine speed, some diminishing abrasives will actually start breaking down when simply spreading a compound/polish across the working area before even turning the polisher up to your working speed. I've found it beneficial to "tap" a diminishing abrasive out in my working area or use a few quick throttles on the lowest speed setting to distribute the abrasive across my working area.

All machines will break down a DAT abrasive, but of course the rate that the abrasive diminishes is based on machine OPM or RPM, pad cell structure, pressure, ambient temperature, surface temperature. In general, A rotary polisher and a long-throw polisher will break down a diminishing abrasive quicker than a standard 8mm DA.

All polisher can fully break down a diminishing abrasive. The only exception I can think of might be a situation where you're trying to use a diminishing compound on a pad that is entirely too soft and ineffective at sandwiching the abrasive between the face of the pad and the paint. Lack of friction. Story of my life.
 
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