Polisher inducing scratches help

[jas02ta]

Hey all,

Decided to polish my muscle car and I ended up inducing more scratches while polishing. What the heck?!?! Car was cleaned, and clayed. Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish.

It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained. Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot. Puzzled, I grabbed another fresh orange lake country pad with the pinnacle compound and still the same result.

Stepped back down to the yellow Rupes polishing pad and pinnacle polish and it reduced the scratches that I had just induced. Frustrated, I stopped completely. What the heck am I doing wrong? Is it the forced action of the Supa Beast along with the compound that is inducing searches? My neighbor has a Maxshine Pro 21 mm da so I’m going to borrow it next time just to see if there’s a difference.

Just really disappointed right now as I pad a lot of $$$ for my new Supa Beast. I’m sure it user error somehow so any feedback is helpful. (Also of note, I was using new microfiber towels between passes for the wipe down.)


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[2black1s]

... Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish. It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained...

This description sounds like you were making progress but stopped too soon. Repeating the same process again may provide the final result you are looking for.

... Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot. Puzzled, I grabbed another fresh orange lake country pad with the pinnacle compound and still the same result...

This description tells me that this process was too aggressive. Returning to the yellow pad and polish, as you did in your next step, was the right move.

... Stepped back down to the yellow Rupes polishing pad and pinnacle polish and it reduced the scratches that I had just induced...

Again, like in your first step, it sounds like you are making progress. Just keep going... Repeat the process.

... Frustrated, I stopped completely...

I think you might be expecting results too quickly. Achieving a "perfect" finish requires some effort and by your description it sounds like you were on the way and just stopped too early.


Other variables to consider...
- Amount of product used... Enough to keep the surface wet during the polishing cycle?
- Machine Pressure... Are you starting out firm and then lightening up on your final few passes?
- Machine Speed... Have you experimented with different speeds?
- Arm Speed
- Size of the area being polished
- Polishing cycle duration or number of passes

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey all,

Decided to polish my muscle car and I ended up inducing more scratches while polishing. What the heck?!?! Car was cleaned, and clayed.

Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish. It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained.

Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot.

Puzzled, I grabbed another fresh orange lake country pad with the pinnacle compound and still the same result. Stepped back down to the yellow Rupes polishing pad and pinnacle polish and it reduced the scratches that I had just induced.

Assuming everything is surgically clean - my first guess is the paint is super soft.


This,

Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish. It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained.

Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot.



Also - Scratches would come from sharp pokey things.

When a machine polishing process using an ORBITAL polisher is NOT working - it puts in micro-marring - not individual scratches. A sharp pokey dirt particle trapped between the surface of the pad and the paint would put in pigtail scratches. Not straight-line scratches.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Question?


Is it possible what you're seeing is the removing of thousands of light or shallow swirls and revealing RIDS?

Here's my article on this topic, the paragraph below explains the phenomenon...



RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...



RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner.

After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a Sore-Thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.



Is it possible to share some pictures?

If it helps, you can send them to me via e-mail and I can add them to this thread. I know getting pictures onto a forum is a challenge for a lot of people.


[email protected]

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Is it the forced action of the Supa Beast along with the compound that is inducing searches?

If the paint is in fact soft - then "yes" this could be the issue.

My neighbor has a Maxshine Pro 21 mm da so I’m going to borrow it next time just to see if there’s a difference.

When it comes to SOFT paint - any FREE SPINNING random orbital polisher will tend to work better than any gear-driven orbital polisher.

I confirmed this and then shared this back in 2012 in this car detailing project.

Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf

See the question I was asked in post #31 and my answer in post #32

Just really disappointed right now as I pad a lot of $$$ for my new Supa Beast.

It's a great tool, currently my tool of choice. I feel your pain - especially when starting out on a MUSCLE CAR. Might have been a better idea to start and practice on the daily driver in the driveway first?


What is this muscle car by the way?

I’m sure it user error somehow so any feedback is helpful. (Also of note, I was using new microfiber towels between passes for the wipe down.)

Have no fear, you're in the right place to get help. I noticed you also purchased Pinnacle Compound and I'm assuming Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish? These products use top notch abrasive technology, I would trust them on anything. but if you are working on soft paint - and inducing MICRO-MARRING - not straight-line scratches, then this could be an indicator of very soft paint and it is the pads that are inducing the micro-marring.


I'll send you my cell, give me a call.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's pictures of micro-marring...


The first picture is using a SCANGRIP light and the second picture is using the flash on my Canon T6i


Medium micro-marring

This is a close-up cropped out of the original.

Same area lit up with the camera flash

Light micro-marring

This is a close-up cropped out of the original.

Same area lit up with the camera flash

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just got of the phone with jas02ta about his car.

It's a REALLY cool car and I'm going to list what it is in case any of our forum members have owned one of these and might know or remember what the paint was/is like as far as paint hardness and/or paint softness.


2001 Trans Am WS6 in Sunset Orange Metallic.


Cool car.

 

[2black1s]

Don't you just wish you could be there to help out in situations like this? I know I do.

... It's a REALLY cool car and I'm going to list what it is in case any of our forum members have owned one of these and might know or remember what the paint was/is like as far as paint hardness and/or paint softness.

2001 Trans Am WS6 in Sunset Orange Metallic.

Cool car.

I've been a Pontiac guy my entire life, so yeah, that is a cool car!
Even back in my stock car days when just about every competitor was a Chevelle, mine was...

View attachment 73949 View attachment 73950 View attachment 73951

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Watch this video.

Even though it shows using a Porter Cable polisher, it shows the same technique for using the Supa BEAST.

Fast forward to the 26 minute time stamp.

There's a part of me that thinks maybe you're not pushing down hard enough on the head of the polisher.

After looking at the pictures you sent me, the swirls look like "normal" type swirls that should buff out real easy with the tool, pads and products you have.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Read through this,

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


The above is really written about free spinning short stroke polishers, like the Porter Cable, but the same mistakes and remedies "can" apply to any polisher.

 

[jas02ta]

Don't you just wish you could be there to help out in situations like this? I know I do.





I've been a Pontiac guy my entire life, so yeah, that is a cool car!
Even back in my stock car days when just about every competitor was a Chevelle, mine was...

View attachment 73949 View attachment 73950 View attachment 73951

Nice!!


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[jas02ta]

Watch this video.

Even though it shows using a Porter Cable polisher, it shows the same technique for using the Supa BEAST.

Fast forward to the 26 minute time stamp.

There's a part of me that thinks maybe you're not pushing down hard enough on the head of the polisher.

After looking at the pictures you sent me, the swirls look like "normal" type swirls that should buff out real easy with the tool, pads and products you have.

)

Want to give a HUGE thank you to Mike for taking the time to diagnose and walk me through the steps of finding the right combo to correct my car. The combo that ended working flawlessly with the Supa Beast was the yellow Rupes pad teamed with the Pinnacle Advanced Compound. Also, used Mike’s advice of 5-10 lbs of pressure while making the passes. Did the wipe off and viola! PERFECT!! All my initial frustrations and disappointments immediately disintegrated.

Lessons learned: 1) Don’t get frustrated in the test spot phase, 2) Try different combinations of quality polishes/compounds with quality pads. I initially did two different combos and then stopped. Needed to do more. 3) Have confidence in the quality tool and polishes that you have. They WILL WORK!! 4) Don’t be afraid to reach out for help! I did that part right. 5) As Mike said, “each one teach one.” I will be passing all knowledge learned during my detailing journey to others.

Last question Mike…..the paint looks perfect to me, but with your keen eye, should I finish it out with the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish? If yes, do you think I should use the Rupes yellow pad again or drop down a tick to their white pad?



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[98CayenneTA]

I have done many 4th gen. Trans Ams and the paint is just a touch to the hard side of medium. You really should not be getting micro maring.

I actually own a Cayenne Red 4th gen. myself....

I would finish your car with the Rupes white pad and CarPro Essence.

Sounds like ya got it figured out..... don't suppose you live in Minnesota do ya...

Here's a couple....

Mine

Mine behind the wicked black

 

[jas02ta]

I have done many 4th gen. Trans Ams and the paint is just a touch to the hard side of medium. You really should not be getting micro maring.

I actually own a Cayenne Red 4th gen. myself....

I would finish your car with the Rupes white pad and CarPro Essence.

Sounds like ya got it figured out..... don't suppose you live in Minnesota do ya...

Here's a couple....

Mine

Mine behind the wicked black

Nice clean TA! Is yours a 98? Glad to see that we are keeping it alive! I have the 01 so wondering if the paint hardness/softness possibly changed?? I was doing a 50/50 shot with tape, so when I was finished, I pulled the tape off and wiped off the compound that was stuck around the tape and ended up marring the paint where I was rubbing it. I don’t have as much experience as you for sure, but my paint seems to be on the softer side. But again, don’t have much to compare hard vs soft until I start polishing more cars.


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[98CayenneTA]

Nice clean TA! Is yours a 98? Glad to see that we are keeping it alive! I have the 01 so wondering if the paint hardness/softness possibly changed?? I was doing a 50/50 shot with tape, so when I was finished, I pulled the tape off and wiped off the compound that was stuck around the tape and ended up marring the paint where I was rubbing it. I don’t have as much experience as you for sure, but my paint seems to be on the softer side. But again, don’t have much to compare hard vs soft until I start polishing more cars.


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Yes, mine is a '98

4th Gen F-body's 4 Lyfe

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Want to give a HUGE thank you to Mike for taking the time to diagnose and walk me through the steps of finding the right combo to correct my car.

Your welcome but the thing I always like to point out is I'm a part of the Autogeek Customer Care Team. Some people call our customer care on the phone, some send an e-mail, some go to our Detailing 101 Facebook Group and then some come to the forum.

I've always preferred the forum because I find it the easiest way to share VOLUMES of information. :xyxthumbs:

The combo that ended working flawlessly with the Supa Beast was the yellow Rupes pad teamed with the Pinnacle Advanced Compound. Also, used Mike’s advice of 5-10 lbs of pressure while making the passes.

Did the wipe off and viola! PERFECT!!

All my initial frustrations and disappointments immediately disintegrated.

Congratulations!

Starting out your first time polishing with a a FLEX Supa BEAST is like learning to drive in a Super Car. You did great. All we did was tweak your technique.

Lessons learned:

1) Don’t get frustrated in the test spot phase,

2) Try different combinations of quality polishes/compounds with quality pads. I initially did two different combos and then stopped. Needed to do more.

3) Have confidence in the quality tool and polishes that you have. They WILL WORK!!

4) Don’t be afraid to reach out for help! I did that part right.

5) As Mike said, “each one teach one.” I will be passing all knowledge learned during my detailing journey to others.

Perfect summary.

By the way, I forget where I got the saying, "each one teach one", but I used it after teaching a young man how to detail cars and his first car was a Ferrari! :wowwow:

Here's the original article from 2004

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider

Last question Mike…..the paint looks perfect to me, but with your keen eye, should I finish it out with the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish?

If yes, do you think I should use the Rupes yellow pad again or drop down a tick to their white pad?

Great questions. If you're OCD to the max then re-polish using the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish with the RUPES White pad.

But - if it looks good to you? Seal her up! Pinnacle Advanced Compound uses great abrasive technology as you have seen first hand.

 

[jas02ta]

Your welcome but the thing I always like to point out is I'm a part of the Autogeek Customer Care Team. Some people call our customer care on the phone, some send an e-mail, some go to our Detailing 101 Facebook Group and then some come to the forum.

I've always preferred the forum because I find it the easiest way to share VOLUMES of information. :xyxthumbs:




Congratulations!

Starting out your first time polishing with a a FLEX Supa BEAST is like learning to drive in a Super Car. You did great. All we did was tweak your technique.




Perfect summary.

By the way, I forget where I got the saying, "each one teach one", but I used it after teaching a young man how to detail cars and his first car was a Ferrari! :wowwow:

Here's the original article from 2004

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider








Great questions. If you're OCD to the max then re-polish using the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish with the RUPES White pad.

But - if it looks good to you? Seal her up! Pinnacle Advanced Compound uses great abrasive technology as you have seen first hand.

I’ll be sealing it up! Thanks again Mike!


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[2black1s]

This thread is another data point in the discussion regarding the most important factor when it comes to polishing paint. Technique / Tool / Pad / Paint/ Abrasive Technology. Here's the link to that thread...

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...polishing-paint.html?highlight=most+important

In the case discussed here, "Technique" turned out to be the most significant factor. The OP was not getting acceptable results with his polishing process. Without changing the tool, pad, or product, and changing only his technique (with the guidance provided), he was able to achieve acceptable results.

That has typically been my experience too. Technique changes, i.e., machine pressure, machine speed, arm speed, amount of product, polishing cycle duration, polishing pattern, number of polishing cycles, etc., can have a major effect on the results. The same product, tool, pad can be used to achieve great results across a wide spectrum of varying conditions by simply experimenting with/altering the "Technique".

I think I voted for "Technique" in the linked poll (a long time ago) because if I had to pick one of the choices provided that is what came to mind first. Actually, I think all of the choices play together. Any one of them, or any combination thereof, can and will have an effect. Each "problem case" must be analyzed on it's own and the "most likely" cause can be different from case to case.

So... If I was voting today, I'd look for an "Other" choice due to the fact that "the most important..." can be different based on the issue at hand.

But I will also say that "Technique" has to be a consideration... Along with "Abrasive Technology", and to a lesser extent, the remaining choices.

 

[psnt1ol]

This thread is another data point in the discussion regarding the most important factor when it comes to polishing paint. Technique / Tool / Pad / Paint/ Abrasive Technology. Here's the link to that thread...

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...polishing-paint.html?highlight=most+important

In the case discussed here, "Technique" turned out to be the most significant factor. The OP was not getting acceptable results with his polishing process. Without changing the tool, pad, or product, and changing only his technique (with the guidance provided), he was able to achieve acceptable results.

That has typically been my experience too. Technique changes, i.e., machine pressure, machine speed, arm speed, amount of product, polishing cycle duration, polishing pattern, number of polishing cycles, etc., can have a major effect on the results. The same product, tool, pad can be used to achieve great results across a wide spectrum of varying conditions by simply experimenting with/altering the "Technique".

I think I voted for "Technique" in the linked poll (a long time ago) because if I had to pick one of the choices provided that is what came to mind first. Actually, I think all of the choices play together. Any one of them, or any combination thereof, can and will have an effect. Each "problem case" must be analyzed on it's own and the "most likely" cause can be different from case to case.

So... If I was voting today, I'd look for an "Other" choice due to the fact that "the most important..." can be different based on the issue at hand.

But I will also say that "Technique" has to be a consideration... Along with "Abrasive Technology", and to a lesser extent, the remaining choices.

Totally agree with everything you said....

I also like to add that some abrasive technologies require a counter intuitive approach.