Porter cable buffer swirls

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starjammir

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Hey guys!
I have noticed on a few cars that I have done in my family that some of them get buffer swirls (or weird paint spots that are darker than other) on them after words. I am using a orange cutting pad and Zaino AIO and put the PC on setting 1 to put the polish in and setting 3-4 for removing scratches. I move side to side, then up and down.
Any thoughts on this? Any recommendations?
Thanks!
 
I've not used Zanio. How clean is the paint before buffing?
 
Paint is clayed and then washed again , dried then let sit for an hour to make sure its dry.
 
starjammir said:
Paint is clayed and then washed again , dried then let sit for an hour to make sure its dry.
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Hmm, have you tried any other type of pad? I'd venture a guess and say the orange pad it too aggresive with that all in one. But I've never used the product so maybe someone experience with it can help.

Have you tried a pad with a much lighter cut?
 
Are you saying the orange pad is to aggressive for the aio? Also I have not but I have an white and black pad too I use for wax.
 
Are you sure that what you are seeing isn't just defects that are clarified after polishing away the minor blemishes around them? Where are the vehicles sitting for that hour while drying out? Is it possible dust is landing on the car, then you are polishing over it? Have you tried using a less aggressive pad to see if the results are different? What brand/style orange pad are you using? I have noticed buffing marks from CCS pads before. I would check the cleanliness of all the products/tools/environment that you are using and try stepping down in pads and keep the buffing speed at 4 and just lighten pressure for the last 2-3 section passes. Are you dealing with soft paints like on Japanese makes?
 
Oh man. The pad types are lake country? That sound right? They are about four years old so maybe past their life. And actually all the cars have been Hondas 2002 and newer so yup all japs.
 
Are the flat LC pads? If you have used them every 1-3 months for the past four years I would say you should probably swap them out for something new. If you are seeing the foam getting torn-up from use and stains from the products you use then they could probably use a retirement home.haha
If you are using the AIO w/ the orange pad for heavy defect removal I would follow it with a gray(black) finishing pad to remove any buffing swirls/haze that is left. If that doesn't cut it then use the white pad, ensuring the last few passes are light to polish the paint and possibly not have to use the gray(black) finishing pad to correct any haze. I would say using the finishing pad to apply wax/sealant is okay, but a blue finishing/finessing pad would probably work better as the LSP won't soak into the pad as much, and is softer so even less risk of marring the paint in the last step. The gray pad has left buffing marks IME after compounding/polishing a red Ford F150 which had neglected paint and became more delicate after compounding the bad paint away. This happens when you reveal new paint to the surface. That said, you may need to use the the gray pad with the AIO to remove fine buffer marks/haze. then apply the sealant by hand or with a blue or red foam pad on the DA. This is just my opinion from my experience. Hope it helps and I am sure someone will correct me if I have led you astray.:)
 
Meant to say this in my prev post. I would only use the orange pad for spot correction if the whole car only has minor defects/swirls. Beings that you are dealing with soft paint, you can probably just use the white pad for light swirl/defect removal with the PC set to 5; maybe bump it to 6 for some isolated areas, then finish the section passes with it set to 4.5-5 and light pressure. If you don't have a blue or red pad for applying sealants by machine I would stick to hand applications. If you haven't used the gray pads w/ the AIO to finish the correction steps then it is probably safe to use for LSP but it will absorb more product/sealant than you probably want it to. As long as you aren't applying pressure and are keeping slow the gray pad should leave marring when applying a sealant. But if your pads are in question I would order the 5.5"x7/8" LC Htdro-Tech pads ASAP. The cyan pad is awesome as it can finish a compound down to a high gloss with no haze left. The red hydro-tech pad will keep the sealant at the surface of the pad where you want it so you aren't wasting product. I think you could use the tangerine HT pad w/ the Z-AIO and have it finish down like a fine polish, to a high gloss. I actually used the cyan HT pad on my FLEX 3401 w/ WG TSR and removed 1500-2000 wet sanding marks out of a repaint on a Dodge Ram. I was impressed. There weren't even traces of sanding marks and the heavy scratch I was trying to remove was barely visible.Im the MAN
 
ShaunD said:
Are the flat LC pads? If you have used them every 1-3 months for the past four years I would say you should probably swap them out for something new. If you are seeing the foam getting torn-up from use and stains from the products you use then they could probably use a retirement home.haha
If you are using the AIO w/ the orange pad for heavy defect removal I would follow it with a gray(black) finishing pad to remove any buffing swirls/haze that is left. If that doesn't cut it then use the white pad, ensuring the last few passes are light to polish the paint and possibly not have to use the gray(black) finishing pad to correct any haze. I would say using the finishing pad to apply wax/sealant is okay, but a blue finishing/finessing pad would probably work better as the LSP won't soak into the pad as much, and is softer so even less risk of marring the paint in the last step. The gray pad has left buffing marks IME after compounding/polishing a red Ford F150 which had neglected paint and became more delicate after compounding the bad paint away. This happens when you reveal new paint to the surface. That said, you may need to use the the gray pad with the AIO to remove fine buffer marks/haze. then apply the sealant by hand or with a blue or red foam pad on the DA. This is just my opinion from my experience. Hope it helps and I am sure someone will correct me if I have led you astray.:)
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The orange pad I was using was indeed a flat LC pad. I have two of cobra cross groove ones though and they seem to get worn out quick.
The car I noticed it on first was a 2002 Honda CR-V that had never been done before. NHB on the Honda's are terrible! Soft clear coat and I find SUCK to clean. I used the Orange pad on it with some polish, then again use the AIO on it and it looked great in the shade. As soon as I got it outside in the sun, I could see buffer marks on it. Today I did my fiancee's 2010 Honda Civic that is blue. Car has 45k on it and is garage kept so it had minor scratches and swirls on it. Again, I picked the orange pad ( because I thought orange was for ANY scratches and swirl removal), and noticed these buffer marks on the hood and trunk lids.

ShaunD said:
Meant to say this in my prev post. I would only use the orange pad for spot correction if the whole car only has minor defects/swirls. Beings that you are dealing with soft paint, you can probably just use the white pad for light swirl/defect removal with the PC set to 5; maybe bump it to 6 for some isolated areas, then finish the section passes with it set to 4.5-5 and light pressure. If you don't have a blue or red pad for applying sealants by machine I would stick to hand applications. If you haven't used the gray pads w/ the AIO to finish the correction steps then it is probably safe to use for LSP but it will absorb more product/sealant than you probably want it to. As long as you aren't applying pressure and are keeping slow the gray pad should leave marring when applying a sealant. But if your pads are in question I would order the 5.5"x7/8" LC Htdro-Tech pads ASAP. The cyan pad is awesome as it can finish a compound down to a high gloss with no haze left. The red hydro-tech pad will keep the sealant at the surface of the pad where you want it so you aren't wasting product. I think you could use the tangerine HT pad w/ the Z-AIO and have it finish down like a fine polish, to a high gloss. I actually used the cyan HT pad on my FLEX 3401 w/ WG TSR and removed 1500-2000 wet sanding marks out of a repaint on a Dodge Ram. I was impressed. There weren't even traces of sanding marks and the heavy scratch I was trying to remove was barely visible.Im the MAN
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So I should actually use a white pad and bump my speeds up? What is the benefit for bumping up the speed? I have only been doing this kind of stuff for family for about 6 years and have a TON to still learn so ANY help is more than appreciated.
Are the Hydro pads in a pack? I could use all new pads in reality as I ordered a 2012 Civic Si which is black and I know it is going to need work.
I really think I am going to bookmark this post in my favorites because I am seeing TONS of different color pads and for uses that I am going to have to experiment with I guess. I really appreciate all this info in these threads and you taking the time to help me out with this!
 
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Is it possible you are using too much product and not working long enough? I had dark lines on the hood of a dark color car and it was from not working the polish long enough in those areas
 
I guess it is possible, but I have been using Zaino for a few years and only put two little circle around the pad on it/panel, but only really notice the problems on the Honda's that I do. I have done a few Fords and don't really see it, then again they are mostly gold and silver.
Also, since I live in MI and my detailing stuff stays outside, would it freezing and then thawing hurt the product? I think the Zaino I am using is four years old so maybe it's life is over.
 
In my experience as a general rule.
flat pads of that age are most likely far more aggressive than they once were.
AIO needs following if anything more than heavy polish pad is used and on dark cars that at times creates haze...
if we have to follow a one step making it no longer a one step. we switch to the d300 and d301 combo. so many ways to use these and the easy of use / results ratio is awesome. mf or foam
d301 is used now in a lot of our one step cars, again mf or foam. paint and desired amount of defect removal suggest the combinations.
 
Man I am so new at this lol! What is a d300 and 301? I'm sorry!
 
starjammir said:
Any thoughts on this? Any recommendations?
Thanks!
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If you're going to be doing any kind of buffing on a regular basis then I would recommend getting a few more tools in your tool box.

Just like most people have more than one screwdriver, you should have a variety of compounds and polishes. This is something from my e-book on the topic of

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Tool Time
Products are like tools, they enable you to perform a specific procedure or task that you couldn't do otherwise. Just like a screwdriver enables you to either remove or install a screw, a quality compound or polish enables you to remove defects and restore a show car finish.

You need some tools in your tool box!If you haven't already, consider adding a few tools to your tool box so anytime you're working on a car's finish you'll already have the tools you need to do some testing and then tackle the job.

A well rounded inventory would include,Aggressive
  • Compound for serious paint defects
  • Medium Cut Polish
  • Fine Cut Polish
  • Ultra Fine Cut Polish
  • Light Paint Cleaner or Pre-wax Cleaner
  • Non-abrasive glaze or pure polish
  • Cleaner/Wax
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:)
 
did I read right..your using speed 1 to use Polishes and speeds 3-4 to remove scratches? That is way to slow for a foam pad. if your using the Megs MF disc then speeds 3-4 would be ok but speed 1 is almost useless for anything really. You need to to be using speed 6 for swirl removal and I use speed 6 as well for polish as well.
 
starjammir said:
I guess it is possible, but I have been using Zaino for a few years and only put two little circle around the pad on it/panel, but only really notice the problems on the Honda's that I do. I have done a few Fords and don't really see it, then again they are mostly gold and silver.
Also, since I live in MI and my detailing stuff stays outside, would it freezing and then thawing hurt the product? I think the Zaino I am using is four years old so maybe it's life is over.
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If it says "keep from freezing" and it freezes, the solvent carriers in the product have separated to the point where they won't mix properly no matter how hard you shake, rattle and roll them.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
If you're going to be doing any kind of buffing on a regular basis then I would recommend getting a few more tools in your tool box.

Just like most people have more than one screwdriver, you should have a variety of compounds and polishes. This is something from my e-book on the topic of

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"




:)
Click to expand...
Hey Mike!
I have actually a bunch of that stuff in my garage already just scattered into different brands...poorboys, griots, wolfgang...etc. I guess I should actually trash all of my stuff (unless there is a forsale forum here?) and start from scratch again (no pun intended!).
 
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