Problems Correcting Waterborne Paint

TrKent

TrKent

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I am currently working on a black 2003 Mustang that has most of the body panels repainted with waterborne paint. Despite all that I try I cannot correct this paint. I have a Flex DA with LC CCS pads and have tried the following combinations:

Menzerna 1000 with Yellow pad
Menzerna 1000 with Yellow pad and a dab of 4000
Menzerna 1000 with Orange pad
Menzerna 2500 with White pad
Meguiars DA Compound with yellow & orange pads
CG V34 with yellow & orange pads

None of these combinations remove swirls, in fact I am getting many tracers and even hazing/holograms from the Flex. I have never had a problem correcting any paint I have come up against except for this car. The car has a VIS carbon fiber hood which had horrible buffer trails and holograms and I was able to correct it with no problems whatsoever.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
I'm not a painter so I'm not an expert on the latest in paint technology but my understanding is the new waterborne paints are limited to the basecoat and the clear coat layer still uses solvents to thin it before spraying?

Just a quick question...

Are you still in the Test Spot phase for the panels besides the hood?



How To Do a Test Spot
(and why it's so important)




And if this combination isn't making the paint look better that's a bad sign,


Menzerna 2500 with White pad
​

If you lay down a tape-line and buff on just one side of a panel that have NOT worked on yet and the Menzerna SF 2500 with a white foam polishing pad is NOT making the side you work on look better, that is more clear and glossy, REGARDLESS as to whether it's removing 100% of the defects or not, that's a sign there could be something wrong with the paint.


Yellow Ferrari
There is an instance in my life where I was asked to help a guy remove the sanding marks out of a Ferrari he painted yellow using a basecoat/clearcoat system.

We finished sanded with #3000 Nikken, at that time it was the best paper on the market and all these new fancy disc were not invented yet.

He threw everything 3M had at it and I threw everything Meguiar's had at it using a wool cutting pad and a rotary buffer and we could remove "some" of the sanding marks but it took a long time and the problem was overheating the paint.

In the end, he had to repaint the car.

So it is possible to get really bad paint job.


:)
 
Thanks for the response Mike!

I have done multiple test panels, the roof is all checker boarded, both doors, the spoiler. White pad with 2500 does not do much, it has even left what looks similar to buffer trails with a rotary buffer. I use four small drops on a 2' square area with medium pressure, 4-5 passes and speeds 4.5 to 5.

I have known this body shop for years. They use PPG Envirobase and we have taken the car back to them a few times for leaving buffer trails and bad swirl marks on brand new paint. Despite being the "official body shop of Ferrari of Washington" their quality has plummeted since they have started using the waterborne paint.
 
TrKent said:
Thanks for the response Mike!

I have done multiple test panels, the roof is all checker boarded, both doors, the spoiler. White pad with 2500 does not do much, it has even left what looks similar to buffer trails with a rotary buffer. I use four small drops on a 2' square area with medium pressure, 4-5 passes and speeds 4.5 to 5.

I have known this body shop for years. They use PPG Envirobase and we have taken the car back to them a few times for leaving buffer trails and bad swirl marks on brand new paint. Despite being the "official body shop of Ferrari of Washington" their quality has plummeted since they have started using the waterborne paint.
Click to expand...

Mike, my local car painter uses PPG and I think their Envirobase but the clear he shoots is NOT a waterborne clear, I don't know if these are even being used in refinishing shops, maybe someone else can chime in?


Here's the dealio...

You know what you're doing and you're using excellent time-proven products, if you're not getting great results with the paint system and you normally do with all other paint systems then it could be in fact the paint and if it is a horrible buffing paint this might be a job you want to let someone else have the blessing.

Sometimes you need to know when to fold em and walk away like Kenny Rogers sings...


M105 is pretty much acknowledged as one of the best compounds on the market for how it cuts and finishes down... maybe get your hands on some of this, it's different than the D300 and try it with a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer.

If you can't get the finish quality to 90% or higher with this combo then it's real possible you got a car painted on a Monday morning or the painter's using a paint made on a Monday morning.


:)
 
After I wrote the first post I went out and tried some 105 with a yellow pad and got more of the same. If this wasn't my brothers car I probably would have given up a while ago. Tomorrow we'll be calling the insurance company to see if we can get this repainted. I know a body shop that repaired my gf's Cabrio with excellent quality.

I do remember them saying something about how they don't use a waterborne clear coat. I would love to learn more about paint technology and what it means for paint correction.

Transmitted from my WiFi-enabled telegraph.
 
TrKent said:
Thanks for all your help!
Click to expand...


Sometimes there's not a lot a person can do to actually "help" except to steer a person to the right path to go down...


It's pretty rare to come across a paint job, which is technically a "Paint System" by some company that cannot be fixed.

Check with your insurance company, even print this thread out or send it to them via e-mail or show them on a laptop or ipad, etc., to show them you've done your homework.

Maybe even do the above with the painter? If he's shooting a paint system that can be "easily" sanded and buffed and doesn't realize it yet then maybe someone needs to lend a helping hand and give him a clue...


:xyxthumbs:
 
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