Professional Ceramic Coating Problems and can I top it with a coating from AG?

[jmeyers278]

Okay so I paid to have a professional ceramic coating installed on both of my cars. The first one had a bunch of high spots and the installer came back out and polished it menzerna 2500 and it took care of most of the hight spots. He then washed it and dried it and left. He said the polish didn't remove the coating, just the high spots. I got good water beading out of it so I didn't think anything about it. I then had our other car done and it is much better, but still has high spots. I have a da polisher and was going to order some menzerna polishes to get the remaining high spots off of both cars. The coating looks like it works well as I don't get any marks in it when washing or quick detailing so I know it is still woking. My question is, after polishing out the high spots, can I top it with another ceramic coating or only a wax or polymer sealant? The clean coating surface isn't super slick like I like my paint finishes to be. I want a super slick finish with the protection of the ceramic coating.
Thanks

 

[zmcgovern45]

You can and should reapply a nano coating to any area that has been polished.

Nano coatings are exceptionally thin, so any sort of abrasive (polish, compound, etc) has the chance of degrading or completely removing the coating. Water beading is not a sign of protection, so do not be fooled by beading or lack of beading... just apply more product in the areas that have been polished

"Slickness" is not a trait of most nano coatings. For what it's worth, slickness is a rather useless trait altogether in my opinion. Aside from feeling "good", there is no real benefit to having a slick surface. A hydrophobic surface will resist dirt and grime while making cleaning much easier, regardless of if the surface is slick to the touch or not (note: I am not referring to a rough surface that is covered in contaminates). If you want to enhance the slickness while also adding more protection on top of your coating, use a silica based coating topper like CarPro Reload, GTechniq C2, Gyeon Cure, etc.

 

[jmeyers278]

You can and should reapply a nano coating to any area that has been polished.

Nano coatings are exceptionally thin, so any sort of abrasive (polish, compound, etc) has the chance of degrading or completely removing the coating. Water beading is not a sign of protection, so do not be fooled by beading or lack of beading... just apply more product in the areas that have been polished

"Slickness" is not a trait of most nano coatings. For what it's worth, slickness is a rather useless trait altogether. Aside from feeling "good", there is no real benefit to having a slick surface. A hydrophobic surface will resist dirt and grime while making cleaning much easier, regardless of if the surface is slick to the touch or not (note: I am not referring to a rough surface that is covered in contaminates). If you want to enhance the slickness and protection on top of your coating, use a silica based coating topper like CarPro Reload, GTechniq C2, Gyeon Cure, etc.

Kinda what I thought. What coating is the most compatible that AG sells? I will be topping a pro series ceramic coating with a consumer coating that AG would sell so I want to make sure it is compatible. I have about an ounce of the coating that he used on my vehicles but that won't be enough since he polished one entire vehicle after installing the coating and I have to polish out high spots on the coating that was just installed. Kinda frustrating

 

[zmcgovern45]

1 oz = 30 mL

That is absolutely enough to do more than 1 full vehicle.

What coating was used?

 

[Patman22]

Am I alone in my hesitation to switch to ceramic coatings right now? If even the professionals often can't get it right, it strengthens my belief that these coatings are just way too super finicky to apply. It feels like the moon needs to be aligned perfectly in order to get the job done right. There aren't any issues like that with regular sealants and waxes. And honestly, how much better is the protection of ceramics anyways? It's not like they resist stone chips, and I know they can be more resistant to scratches but if you're super careful with your paint care methods anyhow that's typically not an issue. Ceramics seem to be a better choice for people that want to never work on their paint at all, not really for "home detailers" like ourselves that like to tinker.

I still might dive into ceramic coatings at some point in the future, but only once I have found a truly user friendly DIY product. Until then I will stick with the old tried and true methods of finish protection. I know a ton of Corvette owners who have 10,15, even 20 year old cars that have paint that still looks like new (sometimes better!) and have never used ceramic coatings.

 

[MattPersman]

Like Zach said that should be plenty of coating to top your car. If you wanted to “top it” with something from this site I would go Gyeon can coat, Gyeon booster, cure or carpro reload


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fightnews]

I don't see how menzerna 2500 didn't take ALL the coating off wherever he used it?

Get some suede towels that's what I did not even 1 high spot on black too

 

[ntwillie1]

Can you share which coating you had applied? That might help us make a recommendation. I use opti-seal on top of opti-gloss as a drying aid every other couple of washes and it works well for me. I also like that I can use it on trim and glass.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Am I alone in my hesitation to switch to ceramic coatings right now? If even the professionals often can't get it right, it strengthens my belief that these coatings are just way too super finicky to apply. It feels like the moon needs to be aligned perfectly in order to get the job done right. There aren't any issues like that with regular sealants and waxes. And honestly, how much better is the protection of ceramics anyways? It's not like they resist stone chips, and I know they can be more resistant to scratches but if you're super careful with your paint care methods anyhow that's typically not an issue. Ceramics seem to be a better choice for people that want to never work on their paint at all, not really for "home detailers" like ourselves that like to tinker.

I still might dive into ceramic coatings at some point in the future, but only once I have found a truly user friendly DIY product. Until then I will stick with the old tried and true methods of finish protection. I know a ton of Corvette owners who have 10,15, even 20 year old cars that have paint that still looks like new (sometimes better!) and have never used ceramic coatings.

If'n you wanna try a coating at a lower cost and is easy to apply, give Gyeon CanCoat a try. Easier to apply than a Quick Detailer, great gloss and protection.

 

[Bruno Soares]

I'm not sure whoever did your coating is really a pro. Someone that calls him/herself a pro should be able to do it w/o leaving high spots. Even amateurs know to look for those because it's easy to forget and then it looks bad when it cures.

 

[zmcgovern45]

I'm not sure whoever did your coating is really a pro. Someone that calls him/herself a pro should be able to do it w/o leaving high spots. Even amateurs know to look for those because it's easy to forget and then it looks bad when it cures.

^This.

It is so easy to get your hands on "professional coatings" that almost anyone can do it. There are elite brands which hold their installers to an exceptionally high standard... but even then some bad apples make their way through the sorting process.

It seems the OP found a not so detail oriented professional detailer. Don't let the detour you from trying it on your own. There are a bunch of great coating options that are quite easy to use. People get themselves into trouble when they overthink it or oversimplify it... read the instructions and practice with the product a bit before you tackle the entire vehicle.

EDIT: Another important point is that high spots are not easily visible in all types of light. The absolute best environment to inspect a vehicle in right after coating is bright, but diffuse light (outdoors in complete shade works really really really well!!!!). Direct inspection lighting (direct sunlight, spotlights, flashlights, etc) is essentially useless when checking for high spots.

 

[FUNX650]

"Slickness" is not a trait of most nano coatings. For what it's worth, slickness is a rather useless trait altogether. Aside from feeling "good", there is no real benefit to having a slick surface.

IMO:
The above is just your opinion!

If you want to enhance the slickness and protection on top of your coating, use a silica based coating topper like CarPro Reload, GTechniq C2, Gyeon Cure, etc.

Even though you opine that slickness is
a rather useless trait altogether—having
no real benefit—you’re still suggesting
products that you say will not only enhance
slickness, but protection as well!?!?

You even make it sound like slickness,
and protection, comprise a complemen-
tary partnership!


The OP is having enough problems, as
it is, without having to deal with this
type of conflicting advice, IMHO.



Bob

 

[RippyD]

Am I alone in my hesitation to switch to ceramic coatings right now? If even the professionals often can't get it right, it strengthens my belief that these coatings are just way too super finicky to apply.

They're generally not too hard to apply. No question you can get high spots. I would start with one panel on one car and see how it goes. Worst case, you polish it off. I did my wife's Boxster with Cquartz UK and had one high spot on the entire car. I removed it by hand with polish and reapplied coating to that spot. Not a problem at all. You really have to decide what you want.

I can say that for a car that's out in the weather 24x7 and gets rain 50%+ of the year a coating may not be the best option. Certainly some advantages but some issues as well.

 

[Patman22]

If'n you wanna try a coating at a lower cost and is easy to apply, give Gyeon CanCoat a try. Easier to apply than a Quick Detailer, great gloss and protection.

Thanks for the tip! I will put that on my research list I've also heard C-Magic Radiant spray ceramic coating is easy to use as well.

 

[Desertnate]

Am I alone in my hesitation to switch to ceramic coatings right now? If even the professionals often can't get it right, it strengthens my belief that these coatings are just way too super finicky to apply.

They really aren't that finicky or hard to apply. There are pros and enthusiasts here that apply them all the time with no issues. Count me as one of the enthusiasts whose successfully used coatings on multiple occasions.

Coatings on my daily drivers has really changed my detailing routine for the better by making cleaning and maintaining the finish far easier and less time consuming. I'd be hard pressed to go back to sealants or waxes.

 

[zmcgovern45]

IMO:
The above is just your opinion!

Correct

Even though you opine that slickness is
a rather useless trait altogether—having
no real benefit—you’re still suggesting
products that you say will not only enhance
slickness, but protection as well!?!?

You even make it sound like slickness,
and protection, comprise a complemen-
tary partnership!


The OP is having enough problems, as
it is, without having to deal with this
type of conflicting advice, IMHO.

Bob

Can always count on you to read between the lines and put words in other people's mouth...

The fact that a product can both make a surface slick and add protection is just matter of fact. There are plenty of products that add slickness without much, if any protection, and on the flip side, there are products that can add protection without considerable slickness. If the OP wants slickness, I made a suggestion that will satisfy his needs while also providing the benefit of added protection. In my opinion, that was not conflicting, contradictory, or any other word you care to throw at it.

 

[Audios S6]

You can and should reapply a nano coating to any area that has been polished.

Nano coatings are exceptionally thin, so any sort of abrasive (polish, compound, etc) has the chance of degrading or completely removing the coating. Water beading is not a sign of protection, so do not be fooled by beading or lack of beading... just apply more product in the areas that have been polished

"Slickness" is not a trait of most nano coatings. For what it's worth, slickness is a rather useless trait altogether. Aside from feeling "good", there is no real benefit to having a slick surface. A hydrophobic surface will resist dirt and grime while making cleaning much easier, regardless of if the surface is slick to the touch or not (note: I am not referring to a rough surface that is covered in contaminates). If you want to enhance the slickness and protection on top of your coating, use a silica based coating topper like CarPro Reload, GTechniq C2, Gyeon Cure, etc.

Zach, are you suggesting a spot repair of the coating, or recoating the whole panel? Just curious as it's not clear to me from your statement.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the benefits of slickness. In my testing observations I found that PBLv2 was more resistant to scratching than a particular 9H coating and several other ceramics all things being as equal as one can make them in their garage. There was certainly a correlation across the board between the (highly subjective assessment of the) slickness and (slightly less subjective assessment of the) scratch resistance.

 

[zmcgovern45]

Zach, are you suggesting a spot repair of the coating, or recoating the whole panel? Just curious as it's not clear to me from your statement.

Spot repairs are fine IMO as long as the proper prep is done... and I tend to apply past the area that was spot corrected to ensure full coverage.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the benefits of slickness. In my testing observations I found that PBLv2 was more resistant to scratching than a particular 9H coating and several other ceramics all things being as equal as one can make them in their garage. There was certainly a correlation across the board between the (highly subjective assessment of the) slickness and (slightly less subjective assessment of the) scratch resistance.

My statement on slickness stems from my own testing as well... and the results of my testing have always been that initial slickness of a product on a surface is a property that fades, and fades quickly... therefore I never (personally) put much weight in the fact that a surface may or may not be slick to the touch after using a product as it will not last.

For instance, I tend to believe that Crystal Serum Light is quite slick once applied. I had done some testing side-by-side on a trunk lid with CSL | CQuartz. Initially CSL was way slicker than CQuartz. As you wipe a towel across the panel it would feel like you were hitting the brakes when you transitioned from CSL to CQuartz, however after just a couple of months the 2 sides felt identical. Hydrophobic properties had not been altered, resistance to dirt was unchanged, ease of cleaning was the same, but slickness had vanished... yet the coating still performed the exact same.

 

[Audios S6]

Spot repairs are fine IMO as long as the proper prep is done... and I tend to apply past the area that was spot corrected to ensure full coverage.


My statement on slickness stems from my own testing as well... and the results of my testing have always been that initial slickness of a product on a surface is a property that fades, and fades quickly... therefore I never (personally) put much weight in the fact that a surface may or may not be slick to the touch after using a product as it will not last.

For instance, I tend to believe that Crystal Serum Light is quite slick once applied. I had done some testing side-by-side on a trunk lid with CSL | CQuartz. Initially CSL was way slicker than CQuartz. As you wipe a towel across the panel it would feel like you were hitting the brakes when you transitioned from CSL to CQuartz, however after just a couple of months the 2 sides felt identical. Hydrophobic properties had not been altered, resistance to dirt was unchanged, ease of cleaning was the same, but slickness had vanished... yet the coating still performed the exact same.

That is a fair point and one that should be considered. I tend to over-maintain my paint with toppers to ensure that slickness remains; not everyone does that, and that certainly can't be expected of all clients. But I will continue to espouse the benefits of slickness .

 

[zmcgovern45]

That is a fair point and one that should be considered. I tend to over-maintain my paint with toppers to ensure that slickness remains; not everyone does that, and that certainly can't be expected of all clients. But I will continue to espouse the benefits of slickness .

Don't get me wrong... I love a slick feeling paint surface just as much as the next guy... I just don't think it has any major benefit other than it gives me the warm fuzzy feeling knowing my car is clean and slick

... now back to the original discussion...