Question about removing tar & gravel from chassis and wheels

[VChula]

Hello - New member here!

Question about removing tar & gravel from chassis and wheels.. (sorry for the very long first ever post by me)

On my way to Camaro5 Fest 4 this past July/August, I encountered a stretch of Highway 54 in Oklahoma that was being repaved. Problem was that the road paving crew and warning markers were not located where they should have been. They were actually located about a mile or two further up the road. (By the way, this very same highway was being repaved on my way to the same event the previous year. No issues were encountered on that trip)

After I passed the road crew flag men, they were pointing and gaping at my car.
Once I saw a spray wash place, I pulled in and blasted most of the tar and gravel off of my wheels with the sprayer. At this time, it was about 100 degrees out.

As I continued on my drive through Kansas and into Missouri, I encountered nothing but 60 degree temperatures and heavy rain. Needless to say, all of the remaining tar and gravel had taken a "set" into the wheels and chassis.

When I got to Indianapolis the next day, I called my insurance company and reported the incident. I was told not to touch the car and to wait until I returned home to San Diego County. I was quite taken aback as the whole intent of the first leg of the trip was to participate in the event's car show! Also, I had to drive to Florida to see my Dad and then return home.

My insurance company has determined that my whole car has to be repainted, but left the estimated tar removal from the chassis and wheel damages on the claim as "open, still to be determined"

3 detailers have seen the damage. The first two refused to bid while the third detailer was willing to give it a go but my insurance company would not pay what he was asking.

Well, my car has been on a lift at the paint shop since November 1 with no resolution on the tar removal portion. (this is a paint shop that I highly trust, but they are not chassis detailers)

Base on what you see in the pictures, how would any of you tackle this job?

Pictures of the tar damage (scroll down after the story for the pictures, chassis pictures are on page 2 of the thread):
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312533)

Best Regards,
Vance

 

[cardaddy]

Vance,

Jumped over and looked at your thread. Where to start? WOW!!!!!!!!

My biggest question though is how in the world did you EVER managed to DRIVE THAT FAR with that happening to your car? I'd pulled over in the first 100' and turned around.


The ONLY THING that is going to come even close to cleaning your undercarriage is 210º ) or hotter STEAM. Then after that is done somebody, more like a couple of somebody(s) need about 5 gallons of TarX and go to work with it from there.

The wheels need to go out and be swapped for totally reconditioned units.

You said the "Estimated damage figure comes to $3888.91". IMHO that is waaaaaaaaay too little for a complete paint job on a basically brand new vehicle. Considering you'd want the hood pulled, trunk pulled, doors etc and all the jambs painted.

No matter what they end up doing with the paint, just remember that AFTER it has been repainted it's worth less than it was to begin with. That, in insurance terms is called "diminished value" and they MUST reimburse you for the difference between a 'non' damaged/repainted car and one that HAS been repainted. I know it's a bit harsh, but I'd be hoping they'd just total it out.

 

[VChula]

Tony,

Thanks for the reply.

The damage happened at about the halfway mark of the trip (1000 miles) to Indianapolis. Also, since I was on a 2 lane highway, so there was no place to turn around.

The insurance company wants to try steam cleaning first. I presume that you are agreeing with them only as far as getting the gravel dislodged.

I spot tried Tarminator in certain chassis areas and on one of the wheel faces.
The result is that Tarminator works quite well on the smooth surfaces that were spotted but not those that had the rocks stuck on.

About the paint shop, I had my 1996 Camaro SS painted there 10 years ago at a cost of about 15,000 dollars (PPG 9300 without clear coat).
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/802745/1996-chevrolet-camaro/photo-gallery/

Based on the money I spent there then and with all the referrals I sent over, I am not at all worried about the upcoming paint job. I am sure it will be exactly how I want it as I will be involved in every step of the process, which is the way this paint shop prefers it!

I know for a fact that all of the glass will be pulled, as well as the bumpers, rocker panels, hood and trunk. This is already stated on the preliminary claim estimate.

The nice thing about this car design is that it has areas that can be masked and easily blended in (I don't want the door jamb and under hood labels removed).

It is also common knowledge amongst 2010-up Camaro owners is that the factory original water based paint is not at all durable. My painter will be using solvent based paint.

As for the wheels, getting reconditioned ones, or refinishing the originals (polished with a clear powder coat) makes no difference. The wheel shop that evaluated the damage recommends complete replacement of the wheels (about $750.00 each retail). My contact at GM also said the same. My insurance company most not likely agree with the above. We'll see.

As for diminished value, that claim can only be filed after the the repairs are "completed" in the eyes of the insurance company, and provided that I am unsatisfied with the results.

Also, there is also no way this car will be totaled.
Even repainted, this car holds a bit of desirability with new Camaro enthusiasts because of the exterior color (Aqua Blue Metallic), which was dropped midway through the 2010 model year due to poor sales. The poor sales were a result of horribly inaccurate color chip samples of this color in the splash posters and sales brochures. What also makes this car unusual is that it has a beige interior. Only 160 2010 were built with this exterior/interior color combination - V6 and V8 models combined.

 

[BillE]

WOW!

I have no idea on what to do, but just wanted to tell you that your pictures and documentation is spot on. Good thinking there.

Good luck...

Bill

 

[VP Mark]

Hmm maybe just because I'm viewing this on a cell phone but I Dont see that damage at that horrible or epic.

I would foam then 2bw the car, remove the wheels, then starting with the body thoroughly soak the affected areas with body Sol( a tar/adhesive remover a local company sells), rinse, dry, and repeat until noticeable deposits were not visible to the naked eye.

Medium grade nano skin towel, polish, LSP, and done.

I have done cars here locally with similar issues with much success.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online

 

[VChula]

Hmm maybe just because I'm viewing this on a cell phone but I Dont see that damage at that horrible or epic.

I would foam then 2bw the car, remove the wheels, then starting with the body thoroughly soak the affected areas with body Sol( a tar/adhesive remover a local company sells), rinse, dry, and repeat until noticeable deposits were not visible to the naked eye.

Medium grade nano skin towel, polish, LSP, and done.

I have done cars here locally with similar issues with much success.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online

You are correct VP Mark. It isn't really that horrible or epic as some of the replies to the post on Camaro5 make it out to be.

The tar damage is not nearly as bad as the paint damage I sustained on the sides and top of the car.

The tar removal on the exterior body surfaces will take care of itself by the repaint.
The gravel hits went all the way down to the primer coat thus requiring the repaint (a determination already made by my insurance company). Also, the clear protective film on the rocker panels and door edges did not really survive the ordeal either.

I am just looking for advice on what would be the best method to remove the tar and gravel from the chassis and wheels only. Whatever is said here will be forwared off to my paint shop.

 

[BillE]

I'm thinking purely old school here, but once upon a time a LOT of 'garages' had steam cleaners. Not little hand held critters, but a BIG monster that actually produced high pressure steam. We'd use them to remove all sort of 'grease and oil' from any and everything.

As my mind is still remembering, you also could run kerosene thruogh those things.

Just a thought...

Bill

 

[cardaddy]

Tony,

Thanks for the reply.

The damage happened at about the halfway mark of the trip (1000 miles) to Indianapolis. Also, since I was on a 2 lane highway, so there was no place to turn around.

The insurance company wants to try steam cleaning first. I presume that you are agreeing with them only as far as getting the gravel dislodged.

I spot tried Tarminator in certain chassis areas and on one of the wheel faces.
The result is that Tarminator works quite well on the smooth surfaces that were spotted but not those that had the rocks stuck on.

About the paint shop, I had my 1996 Camaro SS painted there 10 years ago at a cost of about 15,000 dollars (PPG 9300 without clear coat).
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/802745/1996-chevrolet-camaro/photo-gallery/

Based on the money I spent there then and with all the referrals I sent over, I am not at all worried about the upcoming paint job. I am sure it will be exactly how I want it as I will be involved in every step of the process, which is the way this paint shop prefers it!

I know for a fact that all of the glass will be pulled, as well as the bumpers, rocker panels, hood and trunk. This is already stated on the preliminary claim estimate.

The nice thing about this car design is that it has areas that can be masked and easily blended in (I don't want the door jamb and under hood labels removed).

It is also common knowledge amongst 2010-up Camaro owners is that the factory original water based paint is not at all durable. My painter will be using solvent based paint.

As for the wheels, getting reconditioned ones, or refinishing the originals (polished with a clear powder coat) makes no difference. The wheel shop that evaluated the damage recommends complete replacement of the wheels (about $750.00 each retail). My contact at GM also said the same. My insurance company most not likely agree with the above. We'll see.

As for diminished value, that claim can only be filed after the the repairs are "completed" in the eyes of the insurance company, and provided that I am unsatisfied with the results.

Also, there is also no way this car will be totaled.
Even repainted, this car holds a bit of desirability with new Camaro enthusiasts because of the exterior color (Aqua Blue Metallic), which was dropped midway through the 2010 model year due to poor sales. The poor sales were a result of horribly inaccurate color chip samples of this color in the splash posters and sales brochures. What also makes this car unusual is that it has a beige interior. Only 160 2010 were built with this exterior/interior color combination - V6 and V8 models combined.

The wheels are not a big problem as they'll just go to Keystone or LKQ and get them for something crazy like $100 bucks each. For instance, my daughter drives a G6 GTP which is also a fairly rare car all things considered and had wheel damaged when she was T-boned. They refinished it during the repair thinking it was just scuffed on the outside, and at the time it was rotated from the LF to the RR. Months later when rotating her tires again it made it's way back to the front and she had an instant wobble. Long story short Discount Tire told her she had a bent wheel. Thinking maybe she'd hit a pothole and bent an edge she told them to show it to her, but it wasn't a bent edge.... the SPOKES were bent! Causing the wheel to just wobble. The OEM wheel is over $450, the Keystone wheel (body shop cost) was $60.

The problem with steam cleaning, and it will take something else along the way such as kerosene you'll likely end up with smearing. The insurance company has no interest what-so-ever with that. Heck dude, it's the underside of the car, and as far as anyone is concerned it's a daily driver, it's supposed to get dirty. Now YOU know the difference and I know the difference, but THEY don't know the difference. (I imagine you lift it up and hand wipe whatever you can reach on the suspension, (I know I do)! :laughing:

My concern Vance is where you said the estimated figure was $3881.00 (or there about). I'm aware that the color is somewhat rare, and imho one of my very favorites! :dblthumb2: But as you already are aware, a decent and comprehensive paint job is easily 4 or 5 times that.

When I first started my towing business in Jan 85 insurance companies would total a car when the repairs hit the 50% or so mark of RETAIL value. Not MSRP, but current retail value. As the market changed, prices went up, repair procedures became both better and cheaper companies started spending more on repairs. That however depends on what make and model, and how old the vehicle is. Some vehicles these days they'll spend pretty close to 70% of retail value. Yet they'll total a brand new one before they'll spend that because they know the salvage value is good, and the owner will likely gripe forever about having a $26,000 repair on a $37,000 vehicle. (I know I would!) FWIW, they can get an average salvage value easily around 19%~23% on most late model vehicles. (That are not balled up into a ball or burnt to a crisp.)

At the end of the day, collectability on that car hasn't hit a bellwether mark yet, and may not for 10, 15, or more years. It just doesn't figure into what they are going to spend to repair it. I'm taking it your car is a 2010, and even with very few miles on it it's still a $24K~$29 car (give or take depending on mileage). Getting them to spend $18~$20K repairing it is going to be hard, if not impossible.

And diminished value has nothing to do with whether or not you are happy with the repair. That is a set price depending on the factors involved. How much the vehicle is worth, how big the repair was, (was it cosmetic, structural, flood, etc. and any combination of them all) and of course how much did the repair cost relative to the value of the vehicle. In other words, when you run a CARFAX on a car and it shows it's been wrecked and repaired, the value of that car will be less than the exact same vehicle that HAS NOT been wrecked and repaired. It has nothing to do with the QUALITY of the repair, just that it was repaired at all. Because when you go to sell the car you have to disclose the fact that its been repaired. THAT is diminished value.

I do wish you luck with the claim though. It's going to be a hard one (as I figure you already are aware, being as it's been sitting in the shop for a month now). Best case is you get everything you want. Next best is tell them that you've found one just like it, and THAT is what you want in payment (enough to cover that cost and whatever transportation cost it'll take to get it to you). There may be only 160 built in that color combo, but there are PLENTY with that exterior color. Best case would be buy another one, low miles, and do an interior swap. In fact, that'd cost them less than fixing yours by doing all the cleaning and repainting. PLUS.... the end result is you wouldn't have to have a car that HAS been repainted. Nothing in the VIN that tells what the interior color was from the factory so pulling that up wouldn't tell if it was changed or not. (Of course your window sticker tells, no getting around that.)

Same thing for my G35 actually. Mine is a 6MT, aero package, 4 wheel steer, sport handling package, 19's, red with wheat interior. It is impossible to buy a new one with the sport handling package, red, 6MT, and wheat interior since then. Gray interior, black interior, sure. Automatic, yup. But not with my option package. And I am NOT driving one with a black interior.... just not gonna' happen. But you think they care if it's been in the rain 7 times since new, (hard rain twice and only because we were on vacation) and that it only has 31K on it? No sir they don't. And you think your paint is thin? You should see how easy this thing chips!!!!!!!

Oh well.... keep us abreast of how it's going. Good luck!rops: