question about sealant and wax

[wssviper]

Hi Mike,

I'm very new to detailing and tried my first shot at detailing my 2011 VW Gti. I washed, clayed and polished the car. For polishing I used a porter cable 7424 XP with orange pads in Optimum hyper compound and white pad on optimum hyper polish. Detailing alone took me 2 days in the garage, and while I watched some videos and read guides, Im sure I was ineffective in my process. After the two polishing steps mentioned above, I couldn't leave my Car in the garage anymore and had to drive it. My plan was to do a sealant and eax afterwards, but I ran out of time. I'm not too pleased with the results, and although it seems I removed every swirl mark on the Car, I ended up seeing straight line scratches after polishing. Foolishly, I didn't use the test spot method and just continued to do the entire car. My question is, how do I proceed mike? I don't mind the scratches so much , it doesnt bother Me all that much as my main goal was to protect the paint from the upcoming harsh Canadian winter.

1. If the paint surface is smooth to the touch, can I follow up with a sealant and wax 2 weeks after the original polish work? Or do I have to redo the work to remove the scratches before I apply a sealant and wax? If not, is it enough to just wash the car again, then simply proceed with a sealant and wax without claying and repolishing?

2. If an orange pad wasn't sufficient to remove the scratches I discovered afterward, would you recommend going to a more aggressive pad, or retry with an orange pad and same optimum compound I used the first time around to see if I can make it better? Do I try new compound maybe?

3. I did a test in mid air to spin a used up ( but clean and try) white pad 5.5 "LC CCS and it seems the buffer is much more hesitant to spin smoothly than an orange clean pad. I put the two pads on my hand and the white one feels heavier. Is it possible that the material has baked in so much into the pad that it is affecting the rotation? I tried another brand new red pad , same size and it also spins freely. I noticed as a result, as I was polishing with the white pad after while, the buffer was wobbling on the surface and wasn't polishing very flat, and the motor felt bogged down. Does the weight of the pad have any impact on rotation?

Thank you very much Mike

 

[hernandez.art13]

Here are my thoughts

Hi Mike,

I'm very new to detailing and tried my first shot at detailing my 2011 VW Gti. I washed, clayed and polished the car. For polishing I used a porter cable 7424 XP with orange pads in Optimum hyper compound and white pad on optimum hyper polish. Detailing alone took me 2 days in the garage, and while I watched some videos and read guides, Im sure I was ineffective in my process. After the two polishing steps mentioned above, I couldn't leave my Car in the garage anymore and had to drive it. My plan was to do a sealant and eax afterwards, but I ran out of time. I'm not too pleased with the results, and although it seems I removed every swirl mark on the Car, I ended up seeing straight line scratches after polishing. Foolishly, I didn't use the test spot method and just continued to do the entire car. My question is, how do I proceed mike? I don't mind the scratches so much , it doesnt bother Me all that much as my main goal was to protect the paint from the upcoming harsh Canadian winter.

1. If the paint surface is smooth to the touch, can I follow up with a sealant and wax 2 weeks after the original polish work? Or do I have to redo the work to remove the scratches before I apply a sealant and wax? If not, is it enough to just wash the car again, then simply proceed with a sealant and wax without claying and repolishing?

you should not have to polish again if there are no scratches, once you removed them. They should have not come back, 2 weeks is not to long without applying an LSP IMO. Especially because there were other factors of why you didn't apply an LSP. It would have been a better choice to do it right after, but sometimes there are reasons why one can't.

I would say wash the car and apply your LSP. You could check if it needs to be clayed again before applying your LSP.

2. If an orange pad wasn't sufficient to remove the scratches I discovered afterward, would you recommend going to a more aggressive pad, or retry with an orange pad and same optimum compound I used the first time around to see if I can make it better? Do I try new compound maybe?

The straight lines scratches your seeing are common and they are called RIDS. I'm sure Mike has an article on it, so I'll try and find it for you. You could attempt to remove these as well and no you shouldn't really have to change compound. I would say changing pad and size pad would be more ideal.

3. I did a test in mid air to spin a used up ( but clean and try) white pad 5.5 "LC CCS and it seems the buffer is much more hesitant to spin smoothly than an orange clean pad. I put the two pads on my hand and the white one feels heavier. Is it possible that the material has baked in so much into the pad that it is affecting the rotation? I tried another brand new red pad , same size and it also spins freely. I noticed as a result, as I was polishing with the white pad after while, the buffer was wobbling on the surface and wasn't polishing very flat, and the motor felt bogged down. Does the weight of the pad have any impact on rotation?

I don't know the exact mechanics of it or how to explain them, but spinning the pad and backing plate in mid air is not a good idea. Something goes on during that scenario that is not good for the machine. What's good to have is a nylon brush or air. I don't have air, so what I do is use my nylon brush and from time to time I get a towel and press it on the pad and then turn on the machine. The towel absorbs up a lot of the spent product from the pad and the pad is not so saturated anymore.

Thank you very much Mike

I might have been off on somethings or might have missed some things, so I'll let others chime in and have them help you out as well.

Good luck and "Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy." - Michael Stoops

Happy Detailing :xyxthumbs:
Art

 

[hernandez.art13]

Here is the RIDS article for you to check out

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...5-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html

 

[hernandez.art13]

Also, next time you could attempt to use a spray wax so your car doesn't go so long without any protection.

 

[wssviper]

Art, first of all, thanks so much about all the detailed info. I feel much better about the RIDS now, and I can live with them

sorry I wasn't clear enough about the white pad situation. I thoroughly cleaned and rinsed (and then dried) it with snappy clean solution after being done polishing , and still notice that it is causing a wobble with the polisher , while the orange pad (after being heavily used and also then cleaned and rinsed) does not cause any wobble to the porter cable, and the same goes for a brand new red CCS pad.

Regarding me letting it spin in the air, is this something I need to be concerned about that I have done that , or should I continue to use the porter cable as usual?

Also , do you have a recommendation for a spray wax?

 

[hernandez.art13]

Art, first of all, thanks so much about all the detailed info. I feel much better about the RIDS now, and I can live with them

sorry I wasn't clear enough about the white pad situation. I thoroughly cleaned and rinsed (and then dried) it with snappy clean solution after being done polishing , and still notice that it is causing a wobble with the polisher , while the orange pad (after being heavily used and also then cleaned and rinsed) does not cause any wobble to the porter cable, and the same goes for a brand new red CCS pad.

Regarding me letting it spin in the air, is this something I need to be concerned about that I have done that , or should I continue to use the porter cable as usual?

Also , do you have a recommendation for a spray wax?

as for the why it's still wobbling, I'll let others chime in on that, because I am not sure why it's doing that.

I don't think it will something that you need to be concerned about for future use of the Porter Cable. As far as, if you have or haven't done damage to the PC, I am not a tech that could answer that, but I think you should be fine.

For spray wax, I really like Meguiar's D156, they only have it in a gallon though, so don't know if you want to go buy a whole gallon of it.

Meguiar's Ultimate Quik Wax is on sale right now for $10.50 so you could go with that if you don't want a gallon's worth. I think it's sold at your local auto parts store too.

Meguiars Ultimate Quik Wax, spray wax, synthetic spray wax, quick wax, meguiars quick spray wax, paint protectant, liquid wax, meguires, meguiars car

and NP, happy to help as best as I could.

 

[wssviper]

Hey Art,

I can get the Meguiars quick wax at Canadian Tire, so thats good! Should I apply it now, and then have that protect my paint before I do a full on Wax and sealant job in a week from today? Thhank you!

 

[allenk4]

Your PC is supposed to "wobble"

It oscillates 8mm

Not sure why it would be more perceptible with a certain pad

Are you following Mike Phillips guidelines for polishing with a PC? He has a great thread that details how to get great results with that machine

 

[hernandez.art13]

Glad to hear!

I would apply the spray wax in the meantime.

When and if you do and are ready to apply the LSP. It will all depend up to level you want to take it. I would just at least make sure the paint is clean.

You could do an APC bath, do IPA wipe down, do a fine clay pass again.

Or just regular car soap and 2BM. Or even just a simple waterless wash, but will be up to you.

I will say that I would prefer having my paint protected during that time. Than not having it protected.

Your not going yo be applying a coating, so I would not stress to much about it.

Just make sure your paint is clean.

 

[TurboToys]

Your PC is supposed to "wobble"

It oscillates 8mm

Not sure why it would be more perceptible with a certain pad

Are you following Mike Phillips guidelines for polishing with a PC? He has a great thread that details how to get great results with that machine

if you have no pad on it at all, it should be close to balanced for weight. the more weight you add onto it, the less the offset weight will help it stay balanced. a heavier pad or "wetter" pad, will make it shake more, because you aren't changing your counterbalance weight, it is still trying to compensate for the same weight difference all the time.

thats why having even a little bit of pad hanging off one side more than another can cause more vibrations than normal

 

[cardaddy]

OK, so my thoughts.

Hope I got this right, but are YOU also a "Mike"?
(Seeing the last line, "Thank you very much Mike".) Although you may just have been thanking Mike Phillips in advance. :dunno:

Any-who.....
What you are seeing (as Art said) are RIDS, Random Isolated Deep Scratches. Now whether they were there before, (and just hidden by all the swirls) or the fact that they may have been put there by your wiping of a freshly polished surface. Hard to say without knowing your process AND what towels you use. I *CAN* *NOT* stress enough that you need to use a LOT of clean SOFT towels when doing paint correction. They can all be a decent 360GSM~365GSM but you need separate towels for the compounding process and polishing process. It isn't uncommon to use AT LEAST 6~8 for each process. Then use 2~3 for the LSP removal.

Another place that RIDS come into play (although not in your instance) is when applying an LSP with a foam applicator by hand. Just keep that in mind. :xyxthumbs:

I would not however drive the vehicle for 2~3 weeks without putting at least SOME sort of LSP on it. Heck, I'd not drive it 2 days! Remember that there is ZERO protection on the paint after you've polished it and water spots, dust from the drive home then morning dew, anything that hits it will quickly become embedded. Then you're going to have to (at the very least) do a complete light polishing step just to get it ready for your LSP.

I like Meguiar's 156 as well, but honestly.... I like Duragloss 951 Aqua Wax better. That stuff is seriously glossy, seriously slick, AND you can find it locally in both spray bottles and gallons. Also, Aqua Wax will easily last for 2~3 months even on vehicles not garaged. :dblthumb2:

Duragloss also has a product called Fast Clean & Shine that you can use as a QD spray that is very good. Aqua Wax can be used as a QD spray, but needs to be diluted with distilled water sprayed on the surface to help with excessive buildup. Because it's so durable it will tend to build up. (Just throwing that out there.)

Want the best of both worlds, without having to worry so much about build up? Mix FC&S with AW 3:1 (75/25). Dr. Bill @ Duragloss told me about this trick and it REALLY WORKS! :dblthumb2::iagree::dblthumb2:
(The only downside I've ran across is because both are scented (sort of like coconut or fruit) is that when you mix them you end up with just too much scent in the air, at least in an enclosed garage. But they DO smell better (as in not like chemicals) than any Meguiar's spray product!)

Just get half a dozen spray bottles here on AG, (the Mequiar's bottles are really good and less than three bucks) and fill them up. Then get a gallon of both Aqua Wax and Fast Clean & Shine, you will not regret it. (FWIW, I've used several gallons of AW the last year and way less than a gallon of Megs 156 if that tells ya' anything.)

But the main thing is that you put SOMETHING.... ANYTHING on that freshly polished paint.

As for your pad balance situation, no telling about what's causing that. Being as it's a random orbit, and you could be off by even a millimeter when sticking one onto your buffer the same pad can (and will) do totally different things from one use to another.

 

[wssviper]

OK, so my thoughts.

Hope I got this right, but are YOU also a "Mike"?
(Seeing the last line, "Thank you very much Mike".) Although you may just have been thanking Mike Phillips in advance. :dunno:

Any-who.....
What you are seeing (as Art said) are RIDS, Random Isolated Deep Scratches. Now whether they were there before, (and just hidden by all the swirls) or the fact that they may have been put there by your wiping of a freshly polished surface. Hard to say without knowing your process AND what towels you use. I *CAN* *NOT* stress enough that you need to use a LOT of clean SOFT towels when doing paint correction. They can all be a decent 360GSM~365GSM but you need separate towels for the compounding process and polishing process. It isn't uncommon to use AT LEAST 6~8 for each process. Then use 2~3 for the LSP removal.

Another place that RIDS come into play (although not in your instance) is when applying an LSP with a foam applicator by hand. Just keep that in mind. :xyxthumbs:

I would not however drive the vehicle for 2~3 weeks without putting at least SOME sort of LSP on it. Heck, I'd not drive it 2 days! Remember that there is ZERO protection on the paint after you've polished it and water spots, dust from the drive home then morning dew, anything that hits it will quickly become embedded. Then you're going to have to (at the very least) do a complete light polishing step just to get it ready for your LSP.

I like Meguiar's 156 as well, but honestly.... I like Duragloss 951 Aqua Wax better. That stuff is seriously glossy, seriously slick, AND you can find it locally in both spray bottles and gallons. Also, Aqua Wax will easily last for 2~3 months even on vehicles not garaged. :dblthumb2:

Duragloss also has a product called Fast Clean & Shine that you can use as a QD spray that is very good. Aqua Wax can be used as a QD spray, but needs to be diluted with distilled water sprayed on the surface to help with excessive buildup. Because it's so durable it will tend to build up. (Just throwing that out there.)

Want the best of both worlds, without having to worry so much about build up? Mix FC&S with AW 3:1 (75/25). Dr. Bill @ Duragloss told me about this trick and it REALLY WORKS! :dblthumb2::iagree::dblthumb2:
(The only downside I've ran across is because both are scented (sort of like coconut or fruit) is that when you mix them you end up with just too much scent in the air, at least in an enclosed garage. But they DO smell better (as in not like chemicals) than any Meguiar's spray product!)

Just get half a dozen spray bottles here on AG, (the Mequiar's bottles are really good and less than three bucks) and fill them up. Then get a gallon of both Aqua Wax and Fast Clean & Shine, you will not regret it. (FWIW, I've used several gallons of AW the last year and way less than a gallon of Megs 156 if that tells ya' anything.)

But the main thing is that you put SOMETHING.... ANYTHING on that freshly polished paint.

As for your pad balance situation, no telling about what's causing that. Being as it's a random orbit, and you could be off by even a millimeter when sticking one onto your buffer the same pad can (and will) do totally different things from one use to another.

####... Well i've gone about 3-5 days now without any protection after polish... so that ship has sailed... in that case are you saying I would have to do at least one more polish (White pad, Optimum Hyper Polish) and then Sealant and Wax next time I do anything to the car?

And funny enough, I did Intend for the message to go to Mike, but my name so happens to be Mike as well

 

[cardaddy]

####... Well i've gone about 3-5 days now without any protection after polish... so that ship has sailed... in that case are you saying I would have to do at least one more polish (White pad, Optimum Hyper Polish) and then Sealant and Wax next time I do anything to the car?

And funny enough, I did Intend for the message to go to Mike, but my name so happens to be Mike as well

In any event Mike.... you NEED TO GET at least SOME sort of LSP on that paint. Just stop by your local retailer and get a bottle of Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Wax and that'll serve you well.

Keep in mind that the term "wax" is used rather loosely these last 10+ years. Spray "waxes" as they may be called are generally more of a polymer based "coating" of sorts. Few, VERY FEW have any percentage of what us old timers would consider "wax", (meaning carnauba). Some are better than others, some are more Quick Detail sprays, and of course some are really strong contenders. It's very easy to (with regular washing) solidly maintain a vehicle with "spry wax/sealant" products.

(The ones I already mentioned are pretty darned good!) rops: And as I mentioned, it'll actually build-up and in doing so provide quite a bit of protection.

One I REALLY DON'T LIKE is Poorboys World QW+ spray wax (although it actually DOES have carnauba in it).

Whether or not you do a quick buff later (before your permanent LSP) is up to you. At the very least you'll need to do a really good wash (or THREE). Maybe a mild clay, or better yet a quick once over with a Nanoskin pad. You don't even need to use a dedicated "lube" if you've washed it once, just use some soapy water as your lube.

 

[wssviper]

In any event Mike.... you NEED TO GET at least SOME sort of LSP on that paint. Just stop by your local retailer and get a bottle of Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Wax and that'll serve you well.

Keep in mind that the term "wax" is used rather loosely these last 10+ years. Spray "waxes" as they may be called are generally more of a polymer based "coating" of sorts. Few, VERY FEW have any percentage of what us old timers would consider "wax", (meaning carnauba). Some are better than others, some are more Quick Detail sprays, and of course some are really strong contenders. It's very easy to (with regular washing) solidly maintain a vehicle with "spry wax/sealant" products.

(The ones I already mentioned are pretty darned good!) rops: And as I mentioned, it'll actually build-up and in doing so provide quite a bit of protection.

One I REALLY DON'T LIKE is Poorboys World QW+ spray wax (although it actually DOES have carnauba in it).

Whether or not you do a quick buff later (before your permanent LSP) is up to you. At the very least you'll need to do a really good wash (or THREE). Maybe a mild clay, or better yet a quick once over with a Nanoskin pad. You don't even need to use a dedicated "lube" if you've washed it once, just use some soapy water as your lube.

hey cardaddy,

As it's getting cold and I won't have time to do a full buff (Polish ) over the next 2 weeks , and after that point it will start snowing here in Canada. I will however have access to an indoor heated car wash , where I can do a wash, clay and even wax. Right now i'm leaning toward going with Meguiars Quik Wax for some temporary protection on a regular basis until possibly next spring as it warms up and I redo the polish, followed by a complete Sealant and proper wax. Would this be a reasonable plan?

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[hernandez.art13]

hey cardaddy,

As it's getting cold and I won't have time to do a full buff (Polish ) over the next 2 weeks , and after that point it will start snowing here in Canada. I will however have access to an indoor heated car wash , where I can do a wash, clay and even wax. Right now i'm leaning toward going with Meguiars Quik Wax for some temporary protection on a regular basis until possibly next spring as it warms up and I redo the polish, followed by a complete Sealant and proper wax. Would this be a reasonable plan?

Thanks again,

Mike

Here is what I was told. I was told that Meguiars D156 (synthetic express spray wax) could be used to top a synthetic sealant like Meguiars Ultimate Paste Wax on a weekly bases.

Meaning if you wash your car every week and it has UPW. Then there would be nothing wrong with topping UPW every week with D156. Since it does not layer and build up.

So not sure if Meguiars Quik Ultimate Spray Wax would act the same. You can just give Meguiars customer service a call.

I would imagine, but not 100% sure, if your paint has a sealant wax Or not. It should not matter if you would use D156 the same. Meaning, giving it a quick spray wax every week.

But at the same time, that might be overkill. You should call customer service and see Wha they recommend.

Hope that helps some.

 

[RobRabbit2.5]

As far an LSP, like contraception, anything is better than nothing. Try to use the best protection you can at whatever time.

As far as the scratches, need pictures to tell ya what's up man.

 

[allenk4]

As far an LSP, like contraception, anything is better than nothing. Try to use the best protection you can at whatever time.

As far as the scratches, need pictures to tell ya what's up man.

LSP is NOT like contraception...

The best way to not get pregnant is Abstinence

Never shall I abstain from using an LSP

 

[cardaddy]

.... So not sure if Meguiars Quik Ultimate Spray Wax would act the same. You can just give Meguiars customer service a call.

....

As I'm sure you already know Art, 156 is just the 'pro' version of UQW. They are both a "topper", and both are synthetic sealants so to speak. (Then again... isn't everything?)

Using ANYTHING is preferable to using NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Funny enough though......
M26 is often used to "top" M21 2.0 but if you pull up some old threads on MOL you'll see Meguiar's say that M26 is a "sealant" and is very durable all by itself. Personally, I've always used M21 2.0 (M20 before that) as the preferred sealant of the two.

(And have more times than I can remember..... topped the "sealant" with M26.):dblthumb2:

 

[wssviper]

Here is what I was told. I was told that Meguiars D156 (synthetic express spray wax) could be used to top a synthetic sealant like Meguiars Ultimate Paste Wax on a weekly bases.

Meaning if you wash your car every week and it has UPW. Then there would be nothing wrong with topping UPW every week with D156. Since it does not layer and build up.

So not sure if Meguiars Quik Ultimate Spray Wax would act the same. You can just give Meguiars customer service a call.

I would imagine, but not 100% sure, if your paint has a sealant wax Or not. It should not matter if you would use D156 the same. Meaning, giving it a quick spray wax every week.

But at the same time, that might be overkill. You should call customer service and see Wha they recommend.

Hope that helps some.

Ok, i'm sorry but I'm getting a little confused. Let me start all over again if that's ok and add some more info. My paint has no sealant what so ever, as I just bough this 4 year old car that has never received any polishing, waxing or sealing. So, I wanted to do a full detail from start to finish and started with a wash, clay, and polish (Compound with Orange, then Polish with white pad). At that point, I ran out of time and had to drive the car out. I already have Meguiars gold class Caranuba Wax and Blackfire Wet Diamond all finish paint protection as a sealant. Now, I have been working in my parent's garage do to all the above work but won't have access to this anymore, and am forced to leave my car in the cold until next spring. This also means I don't quite have the indoor space to do a full polish job. However, having said that, there is an indoor heated bay wash in the city that I can take my car to and will have the ability to do a hand sealant and/or wax application. Until next spring comes around and I can redo a complete polish job, after having run out of time after my latest polish, would taking my car and doing a hand wash, clay bar, and then HAND apply a sealant/wax in the heated indoor bay a decent way to protect my paint from now on until next spring? I know you mentioned D156 to top off the paste wax, but I have never even gotten a chance to apply UPW yet. I was hoping not to buy any additional product , is the Liquid Meguiars Caranuba Wax and Diamond All Finish protection products insufficient going forward?


http://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-wet-diamond-sealant.html