Questions about Clear Coat Failure…Is it inevitable?

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hooked

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The past two cars I’ve owned have suffered clear coat failure. I had each for over 10 years. The first five years of their lives they lived in the garage. My wife and I would take turns getting a new car on a five year loan. After one car was paid for, the other would sell their current car and buy a new one. That way we only had one car payment. The new car would get the coveted spot in the garage and the other was relegated outside in the brutal S. Florida sun and heat. Both had dark paint color. One was black and the other a dark red. Around year 9, the cc failure would start.

Admittedly, I don’t maintain my paint as I should. The cars would get washed maybe 6 times a year with two being a with two-in-one polish/sealant product and the others with a topper product like TW Seal & Shine. When I got my 2005 Black Honda Accord, I caught the detailing bug and got a DA and tried out all sorts of polishes and sealants. Then when I got my 2013 Red Mazda CX-5, my enthusiasm had diminished a bit but still wanted to maintain a nice car. Once the Honda paint started failing, I wondered if I had polished off too much clear coat, so I started being less aggressive with my Mazda. But both cars’ paint issues started around the 9 year mark which was only 4 years of being kept outside.

So after that way too long intro, is cc failure unavoidable if the car is not a garage queen that is not washed and protected twice a week?

Also, is dark paint more prone to ccf? I had a 2001 white Olds van that was before my detailing phase and it did not have issues with the paint.

Thanks in advance for your input and Happy New Year.
 
I think that the Japanese brands tend to suffer from cc failure the most. If you are not notably meticulous about your paint care, it may indeed happen as you are experiencing.

I’m in Florida too and I dread keeping my 2010 Accord outside for any prolonged period of time. I hear Honda in recent years is notorious for cc failure. They just don’t make paint like they used to any more. :(
 
Seems all black, 8th gen Civics have CC failure..but they sure as hell still run

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Let me point out that perhaps being in the garage for 5 years isn't really being in the garage for 5 years if you go to work every day and park it outside at work--that's a lot of hours in that "brutal S. Florida sun".

Darker colors are going to get hotter in the sun...but it's still the same UV going into the clearcoat...I think most people would say that darker colors are more susceptible to clearcoat failure but I can't give you a good technical reason for that. But I think to address your other question, is failure unavoidable...obviously yes...but not necessarily for the time period you will own the car. Certainly any LSP will help absorb some of the UV, and you might want to try something like Optimum Car Wax, which has a UV inhibitor in it (Optimum No-Rinse Wash & Wax has the same inhibitor...but a smaller amount). I think the key would be applying more than 6 times a year. I'd suggest double that, which isn't a big deal for a spray wax. So if you could wash once a month and apply spray wax each time, that might solve your problem...it should only take you 9 years to find out--let me know.
 
Good point about a garage kept car not in there the whole time. Both cars spent time in office parking lots during work hours.

I’m probably going to replace the Mazda in few months. I will definitely report back in 2033. Lol.

My non-detailing wash process is ONR and then some sort of spray sealant. I’ve been using TW Seal N Shine for the past few years as a topper because it’s so slick and the reviews I’ve seen said that it is supposed to be pretty durable. I used to use Optimum products for polishing and sealing but I ran out one time and didn’t have time to order online so I ended up with TW Ceramic Polish and Wax that I got from a local Auto Parts store. It wasn’t my first choice but that’s it was what was on the shelf. The Ceramic claims were a bit dubious but TW has stepped up its game in the past few years.
 
I'm starting to see some clear coat failure on my FJ Cruiser. It's over 12 years old now, and was basically outside most of that time, in 2018-19 I did have undercover parking at work, so undercover during the day and outside at night which is ok. The UV index where I was in Sydney and now Newcastle is basically the same as Florida from what I could find, averaging 11-12 in summer with rare days up to 14. It started on the hood first, then started to appear on the top of the door handles, so the horizontal surfaces are obviously taking the biggest hit from the UV light. Fortunately the white roof on the FJ is not clear coated, just single stage white paint, and really thick too, so no failure going on up there.

I did a home repair job on the hood, peeled all the loose stuff away, cleaned it, then filled it with several layers from one of those clear coat brush on repair thingys, then sanded it back level and polished it shiny again, it was still obvious though, no to worry, I then sprayed the hood with matt black Plastidip, partially to hide it, but also to protect it. The door handles I covered with some black covers off eBay, they match the Plastidip and black wheels. I've fixed and covered what I've seen so far, but I'm sure I'll be seeing more failure appearing soon.



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Big Dave said:
I'm starting to see some clear coat failure on my FJ Cruiser. It's over 12 years old now, and was basically outside most of that time, in 2018-19 I did have undercover parking at work, so undercover during the day and outside at night which is ok. The UV index where I was in Sydney and now Newcastle is basically the same as Florida from what I could find, averaging 11-12 in summer with rare days up to 14. It started on the hood first, then started to appear on the top of the door handles, so the horizontal surfaces are obviously taking the biggest hit from the UV light. Fortunately the white roof on the FJ is not clear coated, just single stage white paint, and really thick too, so no failure going on up there.

I did a home repair job on the hood, peeled all the loose stuff away, cleaned it, then filled it with several layers from one of those clear coat brush on repair thingys, then sanded it back level and polished it shiny again, it was still obvious though, no to worry, I then sprayed the hood with matt black Plastidip, partially to hide it, but also to protect it. The door handles I covered with some black covers off eBay, they match the Plastidip and black wheels. I've fixed and covered what I've seen so far, but I'm sure I'll be seeing more failure appearing soon.



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Sounds like a rescue project. Lol.

On my Mazda, the rear spoiler was the first thing to go. I had watched a few YouTube videos on how to sand the cc failure and respray the clear coat. I figured it would be fairly easy to remove the spoiler to sand and spray but I procrastinated and then spots started showing up on the hood and roof and it was pointless after that.
 
Dr G of Optimum, who used to formulate clearcoats, says the half-life is 5 years, so 9-10 years is about right. I think regular wax/sealant probably delays that.
 
hooked said:
Sounds like a rescue project. Lol.

On my Mazda, the rear spoiler was the first thing to go. I had watched a few YouTube videos on how to sand the cc failure and respray the clear coat. I figured it would be fairly easy to remove the spoiler to sand and spray but I procrastinated and then spots started showing up on the hood and roof and it was pointless after that.
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I've got some other marks on the hood that appear to be getting worse, or more obvious anyway. They're different to the initial cc failure, they look like something got spilt on the surface, but polishing hasn't touched it, so maybe it's under the clear. Maybe I'll just spray the whole thing with some Raptor liner, Desert Tan would look good.
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Setec Astronomy said:
Dr G of Optimum, who used to formulate clearcoats, says the half-life is 5 years, so 9-10 years is about right. I think regular wax/sealant probably delays that.
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Wow. That is depressing. I’m going to be more disciplined with my next car.
 
I traded in a '12 Odyssey with 280K miles with the White Diamond Pearl paint that looked as good as when I drove it out of the dealership 10 years before. It lived thru winters in the midwest and 100+ AZ weather. It was always covered with various sealant/waxes/ceramics etc.
I never had any paint peeling or clear coat issues which is talked about on forums.... the pictures I see show vehicles never cared for!

This picture is the day I traded it in.
View attachment 77117
 
John U said:
I traded in a '12 Odyssey with 280K miles with the White Diamond Pearl paint that looked as good as when I drove it out of the dealership 10 years before. It lived thru winters in the midwest and 100+ AZ weather. It was always covered with various sealant/waxes/ceramics etc.
I never had any paint peeling or clear coat issues which is talked about on forums.... the pictures I see, show vehicles never cared for a day in their life beyond a trip thru a free brush wash.

This picture is the day I traded it in.
View attachment 77117
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Congrats. Both of my cars have never been through automated car washes. I had a 2001 Olds minivan that I didn’t really take care of paint wise (but never been through a car wash) and it did not have cc failure after 12 years.
 
Unfortunately I didn't own the FJ for its first 5 years and 130k, so I had no idea how it was treated, but after a couple of months I could guess. It had never had a transmission service, the tyres were wrong load rating (as in below the legal rating for the FJ), the cabin filter had never been changed, and it was owned by a smoker, and the rear springs had sagged, but I was always going to lift it anyway.

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I think it comes down to a lot of factors: care for the paint, length of exposure, geography, etc.

Our family has had cars well past the 10 year age point and no signs of clear coat failure at all, but I also have a Honda in the family we bought used about 6 years ago which has me a bit worried. I have a feeling the previous owners were not very kind to the car. Every one was a daily driver which sat out all day and saw all manner of weather.

When we lived in Hawaii, I think that was the most brutal conditions from a salt air and sun perspective. Cars only 4~5 years old with total clear coat failure were not uncommon...but at the same time I also saw 20+ year old cars on what looked to be their original paint. Those with failure seemed to be pretty grimy, which pointed to no attempt at all to care for the car.
 
I purchased my black 2000 Frontier new and it was always outside for the 1st 10 years I owned it, getting some protection when I had the bug. I started learning here and on other detailing forums in 2010 (and I was able to park in a garage when at work), and it was properly cared for until it was totaled 2020. The hood had a lot of crazing, embedded bugs, bird droppings, but otherwise the clear coat was good there and the rest of the truck. I initially used a Mother's '3 step' process (by hand - maybe pre-wax cleaner, glaze, and wax?), but started using a paint sealant every 6 months in 2010.

I would say step up to a sealant (or coating) to protect both cars, and continue to use the wash with additives as a 'booster'.
 
Be cool after so many years of ceramic on the market if they had real world stats. Like sunscreen. I do know that a 20 year old car with zero wax or care will resemble an 70-80 babe in her days like a dried up prune.


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DanaDetailingPros said:
Be cool after so many years of ceramic on the market if they had real world stats. Like sunscreen. I do know that an 20 year old car with zero wax or care will resemble an 70-80 babe in her days like a dried up prune.
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Purely anecdotal, but the 2010 Mazda3 my daughter now drives has worn nothing but coatings since at least 2015. It was my car bought new and it wore sealants for a couple years. After I gave it to here, it's worn nothing by coatings. Also of note, since she started driving it, it has exclusively sat outdoors. The paint still looks brand new and not what you'd expect from a 14-year old car.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I think being white helped, as did being regularly "waxed".
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Pretty racist that you think all other races are susceptible to clear coat failure….

I kid…. Agreed I think assists in CC failure is added by heat and white will hold the least…


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Inevitable, yes. Now what the timeframe is varies according to different factors. I've seen pics of show cars stored in climate controlled storage with paint failure.
 
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