Recomendation for shop lighting and buffer trails questions

[Tourmax]

I'm not a pro, I'm just a guy with a 1988 black corvette who likes to keep it looking nice.

I'm in Canada, so my product selection is more limited than what can be had in the USA. Shipping in liquids or aerosols is a major PITA with customs. I've never had much luck with them in that regard and it usually ends up being "denied" or seized for one BS reason or another.

So I use the Meguire's stuff (ultimate compound, polish and wax) because I can buy it locally at a major dept store. For buffers I use a rotary and a 21mm throw orbital. The rotary is the Dewalt XP and the orbital is an ebay special, the one you see in a couple youtube videos with the digital speed display on the handle. They work fine for my limited use. My pads come from a local jobber who deals in car care/body shop supplies.

I've never had issues with buffer trails before (holograms if you prefer), but this year I'm beset by them.It seems like if I even think about buffing the car, trails start to show up. I haven't changed products or techniques, but they seem to just keep coming back. The car looks fantastic in the garage, but out in the sunlight the trails become stupid evident. Same with scratches. I buff them out and the car looks fantastic. Roll it out in the sun and....BAM! Just like that, the scratches are back.

So I'd like to know if there's shop lighting that would make the trails/scratches more obvious to me when buffing. My "shop" is a two car garage and the lighting is four overhead LED lighting fixtures. They're the ones that look like the rectangular florescents, but they're led elements (and bright as hell).

Would one of those "mega shop lights" do the trick? Something along these lines:

View attachment 69676

I've seen the little "pen light" style led's guys use to check paint, but I need something that will show me what's going on in large scale. A flashlight sized item just isn't going to work for that.

Then there's the buffer trails. Like what the heck? As I mentioned, I'm not doing anything differently than I have all along and now....trails. Speed and pressure is what I thought mainly created trails. But I only use the weight of the buffer itself (rotary or DA) and I make sure I'm traveling at a good rate. Speed on the rotary I limit to about 1800 rpm and lower. I usually compound with the rotary and finish with the orbital.

The paint does seem pretty soft this year. It seems like even my bare skin will leave scratches. It wouldn't do that last year. It would buff up nicely and stayed clean until years end. It may (or may not) be original paint. the drivers door has been changed out (before I bought it) and painted to match. I can't be sure if the whole car was painted as I don't see any paint edges or overspray anywhere. Although, it is all in OEM black so there could be overspray and I can't tell if it's OEM or from a respray. I lean towards saying just the door was resprayed when it was changed, although the paint match must be dea on, you can't tell the door has been painted until you pull back a little interior trim and find a purple instead of black.

I just can't figure out why I'm getting buffer trails now when I'm doing the same processes/products that I used sucessfully last year. Could the impression that the paint clear seems softer than it was last year be a clue?

 

[Tourmax]

Well, solved my own issue. At least for shop lighting that is.



Retail options for portable work lights all run in the $75+ range. I'm not "poor", but I don't like spending money if I don't have to. So I gathered up some scrap bits from around the shop to see if I could make something that would get the job done.

Some scrap steel, a couple led fog lights (approx 2400 lumen each), an old laptop power brick and some time with the MIG:

View attachment 69677

View attachment 69678

Works great!

The lights pivot and tilt and the upright is two pieces, one slid inside the other. The lights can be raised up higher so I can point them down on horizontal surfaces. The bolt you see sticking out is the "lock"to hold it where you extend it.

And even though you can't see the buffer trails in the pictures(those are reflections you see in the pic), they show right up when you are standing there. Now I can at least see them inside the garage now so I can work on getting them out.

Gratuitous pic from last year (buffed and polished):

View attachment 69679

 

[Tourmax]

Waitaminute here!

I may have a lead on what caused the trails without changing anything in product and technique.

Well, actually, I did change one product. I was using mothers spray detailer/clay bar kit last year. This year, I bought a bottle of Meguier's spray detailer to use with the clay bar and help remove residue between buffing. I guess it's possible that the formulations might be different enough to cause me some issues.

Now that I've got adequate lighting, I'll give 'er a try without the detailer stuff and see what I get....

 

[Tourmax]

Got it.

Buffed a small area on the door that had trails in it. Meguier's polish, polishing pad and the orbital worked it right out. So it seems that the Meguier's detailer spray just isn't what I want to use to clear off stuborn haze. It must leave a wax or coating of some sort behind when you wipe it off.

Dunno, maybe it was the problem, maybe not. All I know is the trails are gone and it only too a little bit of work. Good enough for me.

 

[spazzz]

I would say the interior lighting is the magic ingredient.

You can never have enough lights. I can't have the garage door open because the glare washes everything out.

 

[Tourmax]

I would say the interior lighting is the magic ingredient.

You can never have enough lights. I can't have the garage door open because the glare washes everything out.

Maybe, maybe not.

Sure made it easier to pick up all those little "micro-scratches" that I couldn't see before.

The trails I never really got to see again after the first round of product went on, including while I was buffing. So I'm leaning more towards it being the new product that was introduced.

I don't really care anyways, it's the final result that matters. However I get there....

 

[WillSports3]

I'm in Canada as well, there's a few places up here where you can get all of the same products. I believe that Eshine.ca is an autogeek reseller in Ontario.

 

[Tourmax]

I'm in Canada as well, there's a few places up here where you can get all of the same products. I believe that Eshine.ca is an autogeek reseller in Ontario.

Yessir. But I’m in Atlantic Canada. As you probably know, mail order inside Canada is usually quite expensive. Mostly because of 15% tax (hst) and shipping costs in Canada are just crazy. A $20 bottle can easily be $35-40 once you get it in your hands.

I can get more “professional” style products here, but again, the prices are just through the roof.

Meguiers products from crappy tire get it done, its just a matter of technique for me.

Pads I spend a bit more for, mostly so I can get decent stiff to work with. Cheap pad = bad finish in my books. Mostly because the pad is whats in contact with the paint and doing the important work. Tool and compound/polish are also part of that equation, but to me the pad is one of (if not the most) the most important products to have good quality in.

If I was doing this as a form of income, I would probably have a different outlook on most of that above. But I’m not, I’m just a guy who likes his cars neat and clean.

Of course, if I was looking to make an income out of cleaning cars, I’d also have a lot more money invested in higher end products. Time is money and all that jazz....

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'm not a pro, I'm just a guy with a 1988 black corvette who likes to keep it looking nice.

Cool car. I've probably buffed out a half doze or more Vettes from this year in my life for other people.

So I use the Meguire's stuff (ultimate compound, polish and wax) because I can buy it locally at a major dept store.

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound is good stuff, I have an article on this product.

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound History


Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and SwirlX

For buffers I use a rotary and a 21mm throw orbital. The rotary is the Dewalt XP and the orbital is an ebay special, the one you see in a couple youtube videos with the digital speed display on the handle. They work fine for my limited use. My pads come from a local jobber who deals in car care/body shop supplies.

I've never had issues with buffer trails before (holograms if you prefer), but this year I'm beset by them.It seems like if I even think about buffing the car, trails start to show up. I haven't changed products or techniques, but they seem to just keep coming back. The car looks fantastic in the garage, but out in the sunlight the trails become stupid evident. Same with scratches. I buff them out and the car looks fantastic. Roll it out in the sun and....BAM! Just like that, the scratches are back.

So I'd like to know if there's shop lighting that would make the trails/scratches more obvious to me when buffing.

While lighting is good, I wouldn't say it's the most important thing.

The MOST important thing is to dial-in your process via the Test Spot. And yes, to inspect the results from your Test Spot you need good lighting.

BUT - after you PROVE your system to one section of paint, as long as the rest of the car has the same paint - if you simply duplicate the same successful "Test Spot" process to the rest of the car you should get the same exact results over the rest of the car.

And theoretically - once you dial-in a proven and successful process in your Test Spot - you should be able to blind-fold yourself, turn off the lights and buff out the car and again - get the same results.

So lighting is really only important for your Test Spot. At least in my opinion and experience. We actually have fairly crappy lighting in the " Show Car Garage", we have florescent tube lights, nothing special in the ceiling that is about 20' high.

I find our garage to be dark. When it was originally built, no one asked me for any input for lighting because I certainly would have shared my input.

Then there's the buffer trails. Like what the heck? As I mentioned, I'm not doing anything differently than I have all along and now....trails. Speed and pressure is what I thought mainly created trails. But I only use the weight of the buffer itself (rotary or DA) and I make sure I'm traveling at a good rate. Speed on the rotary I limit to about 1800 rpm and lower. I usually compound with the rotary and finish with the orbital.

Rotary buffers impart holograms into a surface. I like to be specific and call them Hologram Scratches because that's exactly what they are. The DEPTH of the hologram scratches is determined by,


1: Pad type - a fiber or wool pad of anytime will tend to leave deeper holograms scratches in a surface as compared to a foam pad with a uniform surface texture.

2: Abrasive technology - "yes" there are still crappy compounds, polishes and all-in-one type products on the market. Any of these when applied with a rotary buffer are going to leave their own scratch in the paint PLUS whatever the pad is putting into the paint.

3: Pressure - This one is simple. The harder you press a rotary against a surface the deeper your pad and abrasive technology is going to CUT into the surface.

4: Dirty on contaminated pads - This one is simple to buy I think some people don't factor in that the dirtier a pad is the deeper the holograms scratches and overall scouring of the surface will be. Plus in the case of a traditional wool pad, the fibers mat together and become more aggressive, not less aggressive.

The paint does seem pretty soft this year. It seems like even my bare skin will leave scratches. It wouldn't do that last year. It would buff up nicely and stayed clean until years end. It may (or may not) be original paint. the drivers door has been changed out (before I bought it) and painted to match. I can't be sure if the whole car was painted as I don't see any paint edges or overspray anywhere. Although, it is all in OEM black so there could be overspray and I can't tell if it's OEM or from a respray. I lean towards saying just the door was resprayed when it was changed, although the paint match must be dea on, you can't tell the door has been painted until you pull back a little interior trim and find a purple instead of black.

Well - as my friend Jason Rose is famous for saying,

Paint hardness is an unknown factor

Or as I would say,

Paint hardness or softness is an unknown factor


Of course, this is what a Test Spot is for, to determine a number of things, one being the hardness or softness of the paint.

I just can't figure out why I'm getting buffer trails now when I'm doing the same processes/products that I used successfully last year.

Could the impression that the paint clear seems softer than it was last year be a clue?

Could it be possible it's simply time for some new foam pads?


How old are your pads?

How do you wash them?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

On the topic of good lighting, I share a story here,

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101-a/20007-new-detailing-2.html#post250123


I hand sanded and then did all the paint correction and sealing of the paint in the 3rd floor of a 4 story parking garage for what I would consider a very cool car. As I share in this "reply" to a guy on our forum back in 2009, I did this work in the year 2000

The lighting was poor to say the least. Look at the top of this picture, see the florescent tube lights? See how dark it is?

And here's my TEST SPOT from the year 2000

I dialed-in my process on the passenger side fender and then simply repeated that process over the rest of the car.

I worked non-stop through the night an finished around noon the next day. All I remember having for food and water was an apple, a peanut butter sandwich and a single bottle of water.

After I was done, the moved the car outside to a car show. They had been saving the exact MIDDLE of the car show to park this car, in full sun for all to see and to showcase it before the Blackhawk Auction. I walked out their cringing that the paint might not be "perfect". I'm happy to say it was perfect and by this I mean no Tracers or Holograms in the paint. I had my trusty dusty Makita rotary to remove the sanding marks and a first generation Porter Cable to remove the holograms. Back then I would have been using Meguiar's M95 Diamond Cut Compound and M09 Swirl Remover. My LSP would have been M16 Professional Paste Wax.


I didn't need good lighting back than and don't need it today and I'm not bragging, what I mean is no one really needs it as long as they dial-in their Test Spot and then simply repeat the Test Spot over the rest of the car. The only exception to this rule is if the paint changes, for example a panel or portion of the car was re-painted. But even then, if you're using great stuff chance are good you're still going to get great results.

This is why I don't see the need for "black walls" or any color of walls for a detail shop. What is really important is a great hand-held light to inspect your Test Spot and then it's time to get to work.


Just one guys take on lighting and the color of your garage or shop walls.

 

[Tourmax]

4: Dirty on contaminated pads - This one is simple to buy I think some people don't factor in that the dirtier a pad is the deeper the holograms scratches and overall scouring of the surface will be. Plus in the case of a traditional wool pad, the fibers mat together and become more aggressive, not less aggressive....

...Could it be possible it's simply time for some new foam pads?


How old are your pads?

How do you wash them?

Pads are not even a year old and I only use them on my own cars. So they’ve done probably about 6 cars worth of buffing.

cleaning them: I soak them to wet, then I use my hands to work/squeeze the product out until I get clean water out of the pad. Then its a little “whipping” to get excess water out and left to dry overnight in a closed cabinet. Once dry, they get a quick blast of air to remove any dust or contaminants that may have settled in them overnight and directly into zip lock bags. Of the bags fog up, they cone out to dry more and back into the bag again. They sit in the bag until I need them again. I use zip lock bags because they would sit around too long in open air.