removal of old wax, before new wax - required?

[Photecs]

When your coat of wax starts to fade and you need to apply a new coat of wax... is it really required to strip it all completely (dawn wash), or can you just go to town with some new wax on the 'ol PC7424 and put on a new coat?

Pro's / Con's ?

 

[jamesboyy]

Yes it is necessary IMO to remove the old layer of wax that way the new coat of wax can bond to the paintwork , and not the remains of the wax also dawn may strip your lsp but in the near future consider something like Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss or Chemical Guys Citrus Wash and Clear to do your stripping

 

[ThomasonCarCare]

If you are only doing it really quickly for a show or something it's ok, it just won't bond as well so it will mess with the longevity. It will still look good though.

 

[Desertnate]

A dawn wash may not get it all off. The only way to get the old wax off is to hit the car with a mild polish, paint cleaner, or an AIO/cleaner wax.

There is a thread here started by Mike that show why it's good to prep the surface rather than just go over with a new coat of wax. The example is a yellow hot-rod and the difference in the color is surprising. Over time, the old wax will accumulate on the surface and mute the shine/color of the car by clogging the clear coat.

I've seen this first hand with one of my cars. I've kept it pretty swirl free, so I never polished it out over it's four years. However, the last year or so, I've not been happy with the appearance. The color was a little muted and some parts of the car just don't shine like they used to, despite not being swirled out. I'm pretty sure when I hit it with a light polish this spring I'm going to see a visible difference as I clean out all the old sealant that's been applied over time. I don't have the same issue with another car of a similar age that was polished a couple of times to knock out swirls.

 

[FUNX650]

-"Don’t use dish soap to strip your wax! If you’re looking for a product to prep the paint and get it ready for a new coat of wax or sealant, you have a couple of options: non-abrasive polish or spray on wax remover. Leave the dish soap for the dishes and use one of the dozens of products available that will safely remove old waxes and sealants".

-"A spray on wax remover will chemically strip the paint of all previously applied waxes and sealants. These are generally spray on, wipe off products. They will not remove below surface contaminants. If you're the type of person that finds yourself applying a different wax every chance you get, a spray on wax remover is for you".

"Popular spray on wax removers include":
•Griot’s Garage Paint Prep
•CarPro Eraser Intense Oil & Polish Cleanser
•Detailer’s Cleanse-All Exterior Cleaner

Source:
Wax Remover, trim wax stain, white wax, molding, rubber, plastic, black rubber, porous rubber, black plastic, wax residue, remove wax from trim

Bob

 

[swanicyouth]

A general rule is if your applying the same wax - just top it off if it hasn't been there too long. You don't need to clay & strip every time you apply another coat of wax - depending on how long it's been since you did so.

A different wax? Strip off the old wax with a paint cleaner at least.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's my take...

If you're using a finishing wax, or a finishing sealant, the word finishing implies a non-cleaning product.

There's cleaner/waxes and finishing waxes, for the AR among us there are cleaner/sealants and finishing sealants.

Clear as mud?


Okay, if you're using a finishing wax, something that has no ability to clean the paint, if your car is daily driver chances are good you're going to be sealing in dirt in the form of road film.

See my article here,

Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film

Here's what happens over time if you continue to apply a non-cleaning product to daily drivers and even garage queens... (they get "stuff" on them too).

Here's why you need to polish paint...

Make sense?


This is why most consumer type products are cleaner/waxes even if they don't have the words,

Cleaner/Wax

On the label. I explain in detail all of this stuff in this article, a very good article in my own opinion if you're into this whole car detailing thing...


The Difference Between a Cleaner/Wax and a Finishing Wax

Subtitle: How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project


So if the car in question is a daily driver, a good option is to use a light cleaning cleaner/wax or to pre-clean the paint with a paint cleaner or fine cut polish and then apply the wax.

Here's an article on this topic....

High quality production detailing by Mike Phillips




Here's a question for the OP....

What are you working on?
What color is it?
Is it a daily driver?
Is it ever parked inside a cover? Like a garage or carport is it always exposed to the elements?

 

[Photecs]

Fantastic responses... And I was aware of some soaps that had stripping power, but just kept reading thread after thread and the word "dawn" keeps popping up. Ok, dawn is out!

Mike, your response was an eye opener, and now it's clear that it's a good rule of thumb to remove old wax before applying a new coat. Those photos really make it clear!

Details:
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.0T
Daily Driver
Black Metallic paint
Always outside, no cover or garage
Do plan on regular washes using Optimum or DG with my power washer and a foam cannon/2 bucket method.... And keep it up with optimum spray wax. I'm planning on doing a wash, nanoskin, wolfgang SR twins, and max wax as a lsp initially.... Will switch to collinite 845 + double coat for the winter months.

Getting those last pieces of info before spending $500 ish on my initial order....
With that said, and since I have a PC, what's a good AIO/polish without correction ability to aid in this step? XMT 360, Menzerna 4500.... Or?

Thanks!

 

[Photecs]

Yes it is necessary IMO to remove the old layer of wax that way the new coat of wax can bond to the paintwork , and not the remains of the wax also dawn may strip your lsp but in the near future consider something like Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss or Chemical Guys Citrus Wash and Clear to do your stripping

Did some quick reading on the CG soaps you mentioned. The citrus clear says it's wax safe, but the wash and gloss says depending on the dilution, it can be a regular soap, or a wax stripper.

When stripping a wax with this soap, can I use a foam cannon to do it, or does it require a mitt/bucket to do it properly? Or both?

 

[crober53]

Very good question... definitely rearranging my approach.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using AG Online

 

[finedetails]

I use the foam gun with CG Citrus wash and gloss. It gives the product more time to dwell on the surface, and more time to strip the wax. I use it for maintenance washes as well...excellent product IMO.

 

[jamesboyy]

Did some quick reading on the CG soaps you mentioned. The citrus clear says it's wax safe, but the wash and gloss says depending on the dilution, it can be a regular soap, or a wax stripper.

When stripping a wax with this soap, can I use a foam cannon to do it, or does it require a mitt/bucket to do it properly? Or both?

You can use either method(foam cannon or two bucket) though if you use a foam cannon it remove more wax faster cause it had time to dwell on the paint

 

[Photecs]

So what's the stripping dilution of CGCWG with the cannon? If my math is right, for a 32oz cannon, that's 1/4 oz of soap?!?
Naaaaaahhhhhhh....
At least 1 oz no? We're talking the need to strip lsp here....

 

[swanicyouth]

So what's the stripping dilution of CGCWG with the cannon? If my math is right, for a 32oz cannon, that's 1/4 oz of soap?!?
Naaaaaahhhhhhh....
At least 1 oz no?

Your not including the water from the pressure washer. You have to see the total volume your set up ejects to empty the bottle. Once you figure that out, that is the total volume of water your trying to dilute your soap in. So, if you spray your bottle into a 5 gallon bucket, and you measure the bucket is full with 3 gallons, you want to use. 3oz of soap in the bottle (1oz/gallon). That is the dilution the soap will hit the car at, or panel impact ration as Bilt Hamber calls it.

Or you could time it, if you know the gallons per minute of the pressure washer. Then, just add the volume of the the bottle.

However, I don't believe CGs Citrus soaps strip much at any dilution.

 

[Photecs]

Your not including the water from the pressure washer. You have to see the total volume your set up ejects to empty the bottle. Once you figure that out, that is the total volume of water your trying to dilute your soap in. So, if you spray your bottle into a 5 gallon bucket, and you measure the bucket is full with 3 gallons, you want to use. 3oz of soap in the bottle (1oz/gallon). That is the dilution the soap will hit the car at, or panel impact ration as Bilt Hamber calls it.

Or you could time it, if you know the gallons per minute of the pressure washer. Then, just add the volume of the the bottle.

However, I don't believe CGs Citrus soaps strip much at any dilution.

What would be your recommendation to remove lsp, if not a soap?

Also, if I'm following correctly, at 1.2 g/minute, if I put in 3.6 oz of soap, that would mean I would have 3 min at a 1-1 ratio, correct? How do I know the dilution is not getting weaker as I go....

 

[wompasaurus]

Alright I have a question on this subject say im to wash the car and clay it would it be acceptable to use a finishing wax or would a cleaner wax be a better choice?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, your response was an eye opener, and now it's clear that it's a good rule of thumb to remove old wax before applying a new coat. Those photos really make it clear!

Sometimes I think I spend too much time documenting paint condition with my trusty dusty Canon but as long as I keep remembering where all the articles and pictures are then the more forum time that goes by the more valuable they become.

Details:
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.0T
Daily Driver
Black Metallic paint
Always outside, no cover or garage

That's a lot more extra information about your car... the fact that it's black means you would never see the staining effect of road film but it's still happening since this is a daily driver always parked outside.

You have the worst of all options.

And keep it up with optimum spray wax.

I'm planning on doing a wash, nanoskin, wolfgang SR twins, and max wax as a lsp initially.... Will switch to collinite 845 + double coat for the winter months.

Getting those last pieces of info before spending $500 ish on my initial order....

All good stuff above...

With that said, and since I have a PC,

what's a good AIO/polish without correction ability to aid in this step?

XMT 360, Menzerna 4500.... Or?

Both XMT 360 and Menzerna SF 4500 have the ability to abrade the paint, i.e. they offer correction ability.

The SF 4500 is an Ultra Fine Cut Polish and would actually be a great option to maintain your BLACK car's finish.

1. Wash
2. Clay if needed (Nanoskin)
3. Machine polish with the SF 4500
4. Seal with something

Done. Practice this each time you want to restore that "just detailed look", at least to the hood and tops of fenders, (things people look at), maintain with the Optimum Car Wax in-between this process after washing or wiping clean.

Also, anytime a person clays or uses products like the Nanoskin products they should really already plan on doing at least one machine polishing step to remove any marring left by the claying or other mechanical decontamination step. Especially on black paint. I do.

 

[Photecs]

Both XMT 360 and Menzerna SF 4500 have the ability to abrade the paint, i.e. they offer correction ability.

The SF 4500 is an Ultra Fine Cut Polish and would actually be a great option to maintain your BLACK car's finish.

1. Wash
2. Clay if needed (Nanoskin)
3. Machine polish with the SF 4500
4. Seal with something

Done. Practice this each time you want to restore that "just detailed look", at least to the hood and tops of fenders, (things people look at), maintain with the Optimum Car Wax in-between this process after washing or wiping clean.

Also, anytime a person clays or uses products like the Nanoskin products they should really already plan on doing at least one machine polishing step to remove any marring left by the claying or other mechanical decontamination step. Especially on black paint. I do.

Mike... again I really appreciate the help on this. I know from your detailing experience, and large amount of videos i'm getting good advice.

I only tossed up the thought of 360/ Menzerna 4500 as examples (from what i've been reading). I don't really want to be effecting that clear coat 3-4 times a year... i'm hoping to really only have to do a correction once every two years if I can get away with it. I thought 4500 as it was the least aggressive, and thought it was more of a "gloss enhancing" product. Are there better products that I could use without the correcting ability? Would a glaze do it?
Any specific examples would be great. The reason I was thinking more towards the soap doing the work of stripping the lsp, is that the pads on the PC would get "gummed up" with lsp product as i'm removing it. I guess a 1-2 punch would be the best for this.

 

[KBsToy]

Mike... again I really appreciate the help on this. I know from your detailing experience, and large amount of videos i'm getting good advice.

I only tossed up the thought of 360/ Menzerna 4500 as examples (from what i've been reading). I don't really want to be effecting that clear coat 3-4 times a year... i'm hoping to really only have to do a correction once every two years if I can get away with it. I thought 4500 as it was the least aggressive, and thought it was more of a "gloss enhancing" product. Are there better products that I could use without the correcting ability? Would a glaze do it?
Any specific examples would be great. The reason I was thinking more towards the soap doing the work of stripping the lsp, is that the pads on the PC would get "gummed up" with lsp product as i'm removing it. I guess a 1-2 punch would be the best for this.

Thanks for asking these questions about getting off old LSP. I am waiting for warmer weather to get my SS out and go threw the same process.

I have the Pro Eraser to use after washing, Iron X, Clay. The AIO to use is a good question , I asked the same thing and the people who where kind enough to answer said XMT 360. Blackfire Polish and Seal and Optimum GPS. I have a white car so hopefully my process well abit easier

 

[rouxster]

You mentioned XMT 360 and 4500, but my truck has no swirls. Do you think KAIO would work well for stripping old wax off?