Rupes Mille or Flex 3401

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Trevine

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Rupes Mille or Flex 3401




Thinking about adding another tool to the arsenal. So far I have the Rupes LHR15 and the Rupes 75ES. I want to get something that will make shorter work of cutting without going to a rotary. The LHR is decent but I don’t feel it cuts very efficiently. You can get scratches out but I just feel it should be easier. Contrast that with the 75ES and even though it’s small, it seems to remove swirls and such faster or better. Now that they have been out a while, what is everyone’s thoughts on the Mille? For those that have used both, what is your honest review (brand loyalty aside). I need to get something to reduce the amount of time spent cutting and polishing as well as great results.

My gut says buy the Mille since I already have a bunch of pads and I really like the 75ES but I am mostly interested in time and achieving great results most efficiently. Heard great things about the Flex too though.

Which one would you buy again?
pros and cons?
other considerations?
would you use Mille for all or keep the LHR for final polish?
if Flex, 3401 VRG? Or other?
 
I definitely prefer the 3401. The only Rupes I like is the ibrid...but even that has its own issues. It's the best tool of its kind that I know of, but could use some improvements (trigger pinches hand, gets WAY too hot, sometimes finicky to power on/off and would randomly cut power, the DA head is way too sensitive if you ever tilt it even the slightest bit, it stops rotating/correcting efficiently, etc.)

The only complaint I have about the 3401 is they don't make a 5" backing plate to use with 5.5" pads so we custom make our own. Otherwise this tool is bomb proof. Done hundreds if not thousands of heavy corrections with them over the past several years. The only thing we ever needed to change are the brushes several times and cords. We abuse the hell out of them and they never skip a beat.
 
I have both. I always reach for the 3401. It works with just about any pad and any compound/polish.

The Mille is awesome when used as a system with Rupes pads and compounds/polishes.

The 3401 is faster and and corrects better IME.
 
Dr Oldz said:
I have both. I always reach for the 3401. It works with just about any pad and any compound/polish.

The Mille is awesome when used as a system with Rupes pads and compounds/polishes.

The 3401 is faster and and corrects better IME.
Click to expand...

We had several guys come work with us and they all quickly sold their Rupes and bought a Flex instead. The stuff you hear about 3401s "walking on you" and difficult to control is just complete BS. I can honestly buff with my eyes closed after the first 2-3 cars of using it. Just learn to use the tool and it will do EXACTLY what you want it. Don't believe everything you read on the forums. Half these guys are just weekend warriors who had one bad experience, due to lack of practice or experience, and they just go and bash various products endlessly.
 
Dr Oldz said:
Try this....

FLEX XC3401 Mini 4.5 inch Backing Plate, FLEX
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Jim. I actually saw this a few weeks back, but I like my backing plates exactly 5" so it covers pretty much the entire velcro portion of the pad. A 4.5" backing plate creates too much overhang on the pad which I don't like, makes the edges of the pad less effective since you can't apply that much pressure on them with a smaller BP.
 
Kaban said:
We had several guys come work with us and they all quickly sold their Rupes and bought a Flex instead. The stuff you hear about 3401s "walking on you" and difficult to control is just complete BS. I can honestly buff with my eyes closed after the first 2-3 cars of using it. Just learn to use the tool and it will do EXACTLY what you want it. Don't believe everything you read on the forums. Half these guys are just weekend warriors who had one bad experience, due to lack of practice or experience, and they just go and bash various products endlessly.
Click to expand...

Have you tried the Rupes Mille?
 
I have both. :buffing:

I prefer the Flex, I dunno, it just feels like part of me. I have used the Mille a lot & it is a nice tool. It does feel ‘tall’ which I don’t really like & am more comfortable with it when wrapping my leading hand around the shroud of the tool as apposed to on the ‘handle’.

Like Kayan said - the Flex 3401 is ‘bomb proof’, all of my 3401’s have many many hours on them & have never let me down, my oldest one being almost eight years old & still going strong.

Flex for the win, all day every day!

As Dr Oldz mentioned, the 4.5” Flex backing plate is a fantastic option too. :props:


Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:
 
I'll chime in,

Here's what I've seen over the years of working inside and outside the detailing industry.


Everyone's different


I know that's kind of a generic, fluff statement but that's what I've seen first hand after teaching HUNDREDS if not thousands of classes with people attending from all walks of life, very diverse backgrounds and just as diverse experience.

When it comes down to which type of tool YOU will really like to stand behind for HOURS and buff out car paint, you really need to spend some time with the tools you're interested in to get a feel for the tool, your buffing style and even the type of pads and products you use.

Some tools are pad specific, but most will work with any product that already uses great abrasive technology.


The classes I teach here at Autogeek are unique in that you get to use so many different tools as well as pads and products. This is true for all three of the classes, the 3-day, the 2-day roadshow class and even the boat class lets you use all the different and popular tools on the market.

Heck at my last boat class the students were using the RUPES TA50 side-by-side with the RUPES Nano and the Griot's Garage 3" Mini. How's that for getting to see and use a diverse set of tools.


Anyway, here's what I've seen... people "think" they're going to like one type of tool but after using it on a real car, not a hood or a cookie sheet defiantly not after only "watching" the instructor use the tool, and then they use all the other different types of tools and brands of tools, they are able to hone in on which tool or tools they really like and which tools they simply don't care for.

But it's only after working on multiple cars, with multiple tools sets so they are getting real world hands-on experience are they able to come to such definitive conclusions.

Everything else is just guessing and hoping.


:)
 
Thanks Mike for the reply. Doesn’t really help much though. The point of this is to try and narrow things down rather than “guessing and hoping” I am trying not to order $600 worth of stuff only to be disappointed and have to try again. Although I am sure AG would like that. No doubt there is a lot of personal preference aspects as well. Just looking for input from those that have used both. Would love to also hear pad and compound/polish choices with preferred machine too.
 
Trevine said:
Thanks Mike for the reply. Doesn’t really help much though.

The point of this is to try and narrow things down rather than “guessing and hoping” I am trying not to order $600 worth of stuff only to be disappointed and have to try again. Although I am sure AG would like that. No doubt there is a lot of personal preference aspects as well. Just looking for input from those that have used both. Would love to also hear pad and compound/polish choices with preferred machine too.
Click to expand...


Sorry about that, wasn't that I wasn't trying to help, just pointing out what I've seen is there is no simple answer simply because we're also different.

I meet guys that their primary focus is a low vibration, smooth running tool. Then there's guys like me that just want to go fast and I don't care how the tool feels as long as the job gets done and looks great.


In the REALLY BIG PICTURE - I believe it's more about using the right tool for the job and I'll share just a small sample of what I mean down below.

As for which tool I most commonly use, well here at Autogeek we pretty much have all the tools that are commonly talked about in the cyber-world of detailing and while I could use any of them to detail a car I almost always grab the BEAST and now the CBEAST. In my opinion and experience, 8mm gear-driven trumps 5mm gear-driven, (5mm gear-driven includes both Makita and RUPES polishers).

The CBEAST is a tick slower overall compared to the corded version for reasons I share in my review and battery test write-up in the below link, but the ease of use without having to hassle with a cord is nice and convenient.


How long does the battery last? 40 minutes - Cordless FLEX XC 3401 aka the CBEAST

CBEAST_Mike_Phillips_05.JPG




I'm not sure why other companies went with 5mm over 8mm but I think it's to create a smoother operating tool. But I find they both grab the paint and jerk the tool around a little when buffing out non-flat panels so it's moot point to me. I just want the speed and the power of the FLEX 3401. Sometimes I will use a long-stroke orbital polisher



About the only time I use a free spinning polisher is on soft paint or delicate paint or even glossy graphics like I did here,

COPO Camaro - Flex vs Rupes - Carbon Fiber Hood Extreme Makeover

watermark.php


watermark.php






And I chose the free spinning 8mm Griot's random orbital polisher for the original paint on the survivor 1965 Buick Skylark Grand Sport

Jay Leno BIG DOG Award to 1965 Buick Skylark Grand Sport - Pinnacle Jeweling Wax

1965_Buick_027.JPG





Not sure if that helped you out either but seeing that you already have a number of free spinning tools, at some point you'll just have to make a choice and either go RUPES, Makita or FLEX for a gear-driven orbital.


Me? When I'm using gear-driven orbital I'm using the 3401


That's my take.


:)
 
Thanks mike. That does help. I had originally thought Mille only to save pads. However, like you, I can handle some vibration in exchange for speed. Thinking Flex at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Trevine said:
Thanks mike. That does help. I had originally thought Mille only to save pads.

However, like you, I can handle some vibration in exchange for speed. Thinking Flex at this point.
Click to expand...


Here's something I recently wrote on Mille pads and BigFoot pads


Rupes Mille with standard pads?


Also - in my boat detailing class we use RUPES 7" pads on the BEAST for machine polishing. I show my class how to get show car results on gel-coat boats.


Here's the test spot on the 24' Edgewater

26_Searay_057.JPG




And here's the results from the Test Spot

EdgeWaterTestSpot.JPG



And here's the FINAL RESULTS from the class!

2019_Boat_Class_028.JPG



More pics here,

Pictures & Comments 2019 Boat Detailing Class at Autogeek with Mike Phillips



RUPES makes great pads, products and tools. Each person just needs to figure out what works best for them and their style of detailing.


:dblthumb2:
 
Lets just put it this way, when I met Mike for a brief second a couple years back at SEMA....guess what tool he was using to buff a red 458? A Flex 3401. I know Mike like his Flex! I do also.

I have not tried the Millie. I have tried all their Bigfoots and while they are smooth machines, I can't see switching to them over a Flex. Maybe I am old school, been using a Flex for so long I am just used to it by now. It does everything I want it to and if there's a real tight spot to polish, I just get the Rupes ibrid.
 
I guess I’m one of the few that would go Mille. I’ve got back problems and Thea Mille is definitely less strain. That and I never did get used to the counter clockwise rotation. I have had bot machines. Sold the Flex, keeping the Mille.
 
Kaban said:
Lets just put it this way, when I met Mike for a brief second a couple years back at SEMA....guess what tool he was using to buff a red 458? A Flex 3401. I know Mike like his Flex! I do also.
Click to expand...


I remember that Ferrari. What a pain in the butt to buff out a car in a booth. Actually a really dumb idea when a hood will accomplish everything needed. Having a car in your booth just takes up valuable real-estate. :laughing:


Just to share in this thread, when working at SEMA I play the part of the Equal Opportunity Exploiter - that is, if the tool, pad or product works - I'll use it and show it. If it doesn't then I'm the wrong guy. Luckily everything we take to Autogeek for our booth works and thus I'm always comfortable showing anything on black paint under excruciating lights. Been doing this for 17 years now at SEMA.

Love this article I wrote back in 2014 - kind of shows my normal thing at SEMA. I still reference this thread and share how COARSE this pad is to anyone and everyone when I'm teaching the "Way of RUPES".


Mind Blowing - Rupes Blue Foam Cutting Pad and Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound


Something that was absolutely mind blowing at SEMA was demonstrating the Rupes Duetto with the Rupes COARSE blue foam cutting pad on a BLACK demonstration panel.

The paint was flawless and looked like we just removed a show car wax.

Did this over and over and over and over again for 4 day in a row, thousands of eyeballs watching under incredibly bright lights.

Here's a picture or the Rupes Duetto with their coarse, blue foam cutting pad and our black demo panel.

Mike_Phillips_Demonstrating_Rupes-Duetto_at_SEMA.jpg



Anyone watching we would first have them FEEL a clean, blue Rupes foam cutting pad.

They would always say,

WOW!



Because it feels so aggressive and scratchy. Then do the demo, wipe off the residue and voilà --> almost a show car finish.


Can I get a witness? We had plenty of forum members stop by the booth and watch the demo.


smile.gif
 
gspam1 said:
Do you think the CBEAST will ship in 2019 Mike?
Click to expand...


For sure. :xyxthumbs:


The first container of "Production" units arrived last week. I don't know the count, could be 20 could be 50? I don't think it's a lot though. When I spoke with Bob Eichelberg on Tuesday, he had just returned from a meeting at FLEX in Stuttgart, Germany and he told me his shipment was still stuck in Customs. He expected it to be released quickly.

Once it's released he has some key detailers in the industry that will get these first units. I'm happy and grateful to say I'm getting one. He's asked me to test and compare it to the current unit I have, which is the Number #1 Production Unit.

Just to note, to date the production unit I have has performed flawlessly. I've shared 2-3 FULL car details I've used it for and I already detailed more cars and the write-ups are coming.


But "yes" the new CBEAST will be here in the USA Bob said in June, that's a liquid date, could be sooner, could be later.


Cool tool. No pad stalling and that means you can buff out ANY shaped or curved panel as fast as humanly possible.

1971Char_RT_000.JPG




Nothing wrong with free-spinning oribitals because for some paints they naturally finish out better more consistently. But for speed and swirl-free quality, you cannot beat a gear-driven orbital.

This is why when someone asks me this common question,


Mike, which polisher should I buy?



I say let me re-phrase the question....


Which tool should I buy first?




:)
 
Hey Mike. Thanks again for the constructive help. After lots of debate and reading, I think i will give the Flex a try. The only thing I am cautious of is getting used to the rotation direction after using Rupes but I suspect thats not too big of an issue. However your post about the CBEAST got me thinking about that.

I have LOTS of power tools and for me personally, I am not a usually a fan of cordless in a tool that requires a lot of power and torque. An extreme example of this might be a cordless weed eater or lawn mower....WHY? Sure they work, but not well if grass if very thick or not for very long.

Now with that said, and in my quest for getting things done faster, I pose these questions to you since you have used the CBEAST:

Do you feel the cordless does the job equally in time and quality as the corded 3401?

If not, what are some of the differences to consider when comparing the two versions?

What run time can we expect on the C?



Thanks

Mike Phillips said:
For sure. :xyxthumbs:


The first container of "Production" units arrived last week. I don't know the count, could be 20 could be 50? I don't think it's a lot though. When I spoke with Bob Eichelberg on Tuesday, he had just returned from a meeting at FLEX in Stuttgart, Germany and he told me his shipment was still stuck in Customs. He expected it to be released quickly.

Once it's released he has some key detailers in the industry that will get these first units. I'm happy and grateful to say I'm getting one. He's asked me to test and compare it to the current unit I have, which is the Number #1 Production Unit.

Just to note, to date the production unit I have has performed flawlessly. I've shared 2-3 FULL car details I've used it for and I already detailed more cars and the write-ups are coming.


But "yes" the new CBEAST will be here in the USA Bob said in June, that's a liquid date, could be sooner, could be later.


Cool tool. No pad stalling and that means you can buff out ANY shaped or curved panel as fast as humanly possible.

1971Char_RT_000.JPG




Nothing wrong with free-spinning oribitals because for some paints they naturally finish out better more consistently. But for speed and swirl-free quality, you cannot beat a gear-driven orbital.

This is why when someone asks me this common question,


Mike, which polisher should I buy?



I say let me re-phrase the question....


Which tool should I buy first?




:)
Click to expand...
 
Trevine said:
Hey Mike. Thanks again for the constructive help. After lots of debate and reading, I think i will give the Flex a try. The only thing I am cautious of is getting used to the rotation direction after using Rupes but I suspect thats not too big of an issue. However your post about the CBEAST got me thinking about that.

I have LOTS of power tools and for me personally, I am not a usually a fan of cordless in a tool that requires a lot of power and torque. An extreme example of this might be a cordless weed eater or lawn mower....WHY? Sure they work, but not well if grass if very thick or not for very long.

Now with that said, and in my quest for getting things done faster, I pose these questions to you since you have used the CBEAST:

Do you feel the cordless does the job equally in time and quality as the corded 3401?

If not, what are some of the differences to consider when comparing the two versions?

What run time can we expect on the C?



Thanks
Click to expand...

The new 3401 is dropping soon. Wait for that if you decide to go for the corded version.

XCE 10-8 125 - Random orbital polisher with positive-action drive
 
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