RV Gel Coat Oxidation: At Wits End...Any Suggestions

[Hermes1]

I have a travel trailer with a brown gel coat front cap I bought new in March 2014. As with all my valuables, I am striving to keep it looking nice and protect it from the usual hazards.

Somewhere between a month and 2 months after I purchased the TT, after a complete wash, I used Collonite boat/RV cleaner followed by 2-coats of Collonite boat/RV wax to the whole trailer. The whole trailer looked great and even after 4 or so months it was still beading up nicely when washed. At 6-7 months I was getting ready to wax again and I noticed the front cap had some oxidation. I used Shurhold Buff Magic with a Lake Country wool pad on my Griot's Garage RO and it worked very well at removing the oxidation. I then reapplied the 2-step Collonite and within 2-months, some oxidation reappeared. So I repeated the above steps, this time using a Lake Country foam wool pad (purple) with good results.

I have since found out that others are having the same issue on their front cap as well and it seems the front caps are likely not made to the same standards as say truck caps or fiberglass tonneau covers that seem to withstand years of neglect.

I am bringing my TT in to the dealer this weekend to look at it as a warranty issue, but if they are unable or unwilling to correct it, I would love some recommendations on what I might do better or differently. I have already resigned myself to waxing the front cap at least every 3-months, instead of 6 and was hoping to do so with an AIO. I do not mind making the effort to maintain my TT, but I do not want to make a career of it either, which is why I would like to use an AIO.

I was hoping once I removed the oxidation and with a good coat of wax, applied more regularly, say every 3-months that would keep the oxidation from reappearing. Thank you.

 

[Nick McKees37]

My favorite product in the Marine 31 line is Gel Coat Heavy-Cut Cleaner Wax.

It cuts to remove oxidation, polishes to restore a high gloss finish, and waxes/seals the surface for long lasting protection.

If in fact the gel coat on your trailer is of low quality and polishing it every 3 months is inevitable, the least you can do is lessen your work load by using something that cuts, polishes, and protects in one step.

Apply it with a purple foamed wool pad on your Griot's RO and you'll be good to go. :dblthumb2:

 

[tuscarora dave]

Without being there to see exactly what's going on, I'd think that it's possible that when doing your compounding with a wool pad and random orbital polisher, you're likely cleaning off some of the oxidation and the oils, sealants, or waxes in your products are masking the appearance of the remaining oxidation. I work on a lot of front roof caps and know that DA polishers (even the Flex 3401) do very little for removing gel coat oxidation. It's absolutely tough stuff that oxidation....

I'd recommend you get yourself a rotary polisher for those wool pads and start from the beginning once more. Once you get the initial oxidation removal done, use your DA with some Duragloss #501 and really work that in doing several section passes to get as much of the product's sealer worked into the gelcoat as good as possible. Repeat the #501 step every few months afterward.

 

[aim4squirrels]

Ask around on some detailing boat forums and look for a coating that is compatible with gel coat.

You probably wouldn't have to correct it as often if you can find a compatible coating.

 

[Hermes1]

Thank you all for the suggestions, I appreciate the help. To Tuscarora Dave, I wondered whether I was getting all the oxidation, even though it appeared as though I had. I understand and get the rotary polisher would do a more thorough job, but I am not sure I am skilled enough to use one competently and without damaging the surface. In addition there are decals on the cap, I would be concerned with. As I mentioned I will be speaking with the dealer this weekend, so I'll see what they are willing, able to do if anything and then take it from there.

 

[tuscarora dave]

Thank you all for the suggestions, I appreciate the help. To Tuscarora Dave, I wondered whether I was getting all the oxidation, even though it appeared as though I had. I understand and get the rotary polisher would do a more thorough job, but I am not sure I am skilled enough to use one competently and without damaging the surface. In addition there are decals on the cap, I would be concerned with. As I mentioned I will be speaking with the dealer this weekend, so I'll see what they are willing, able to do if anything and then take it from there.

I get ya there.. Other suggestions I might have would involve multiple steps like working some heavy compound for longer periods such as more section passes, higher machine speeds, slower arm speeds, then following that with a polish to clean up any scouring left behind by the heavy compound.

I don't know if you've tried foam cutting pads or not but you might get better results using a foam pad over the wool on a DA just because of the action of the machine just wiggling wool fibers around on the surface. You'll likely get more friction on a DA by using a stiff foam pad with your compound.

A yellow open cell foam cutting pad, the larger the cells the better, worked with lots of compound, for lots more time than you think you'll need to get it done. Tape off the decals, work the crap out of your work sections. Gel coat is really tough compared to automotive clear coats. You'll never cut through it using a DA polisher, though you can destroy the decals fairly easy if you compound the crap out of them.

Then there's sanding which is lots of work but is quicker than buffing the oxidation off.

 

[tuscarora dave]

I normally recommend Cyclo 4" pads but not for working on oxidized gel coat. The Lake Country yellow foam cutting pad has a much larger open cell, or a low PPI (pours per inch) rating than the Cyclo Pads. The larger the open cells are in a foam cutting pad, the more removed oxidation will have somewhere to go when it's being compounded off the surface. This is the reason you'll want to use lots of compound when removing oxidation from gel coat. The extra fluid will not only scour away more of the oxidation, it will help to move the abraded off oxidation deeper into the cells of the foam and away from the work surface so the aggressiveness of the pad can be maximized.

When you work oxidized gel coat with a closed cell foam pad, you quickly end up with a slurry of compound and abraded off oxidation between the pad and work surface and it actually suspends the pad away from the work surface and you end up just moving compound and oxidation around on the surface and not getting much work done.

Here are the yellow pads I recommend using for removing oxidation from gel coat roof caps.

Spot Buffing 4 inch pads, Lake country 4 inch pads, 4 inch foam pads, 4 inch ccs pads, ccs foam pads

Use with this backing plate (you might want to order 2 backing plates)

3.5" Dual Action Flexible Backing Plate- porter cable 7424XP hook and loop backing plate 3.5 inch.

The 4" pads will spin much faster and allow you to concentrate in smaller work sections which will remove more oxidation quicker.

This technique (working wet with smaller pads) works faster but it can be a double edge sword.

You'll want to be somewhat liberal with the amount of compound you use so the compound works at, and carries the oxidation away from the work surface and into the foam of the pad, but...Working with the required higher speeds to remove the oxidation, combined with using lots of compound to carry away the oxidation into the larger open cells of the pad will cause a lot of heat to occur inside the pad itself. The friction of the build up of liquid inside the pad, and the oscillating action of the machine combined with applied downward pressure will cause a steaming of the compound / oxidation inside the pad just above the velcro backing of the pad. This steaming effect can quickly melt the pad's velcro and the velcro on the backing plate, even though the face of the pad and the work surface will remain mostly cool to the touch.

To get around this problem you simply order more pads and change them out after a few section passes.

When working these roof caps with a DA and 4" pads in the past, I used to keep a 5 gallon bucket close by with some water and APC mixed in it, work a few section passes at speed 5 or maybe even speed 6, constantly monitoring the heat in my pads or looking for any sinking condition in the center of the face of the pad.

I learned to stop before I saw any sinking of the pad, because by then the damage is done. I pull the pad off after a couple of section passes and toss it into the bucket of APC water to soak as I work with another new pad for another few section passes. I repeat this until I'm out of clean pads. By this time I'm usually needing a break from the ladder anyway so I get down and clean all my pads that are soaking in the bucket and dry them the best I can before going back up for the next round of compounding.

 

[Hermes1]

I get ya there.. Other suggestions I might have would involve multiple steps like working some heavy compound for longer periods such as more section passes, higher machine speeds, slower arm speeds, then following that with a polish to clean up any scouring left behind by the heavy compound.

I don't know if you've tried foam cutting pads or not but you might get better results using a foam pad over the wool on a DA just because of the action of the machine just wiggling wool fibers around on the surface. You'll likely get more friction on a DA by using a stiff foam pad with your compound.

A yellow open cell foam cutting pad, the larger the cells the better, worked with lots of compound, for lots more time than you think you'll need to get it done. Tape off the decals, work the crap out of your work sections. Gel coat is really tough compared to automotive clear coats. You'll never cut through it using a DA polisher, though you can destroy the decals fairly easy if you compound the crap out of them.

Then there's sanding which is lots of work but is quicker than buffing the oxidation off.

Thank you again. I do have in my arsenal, foam cutting pads (yellow & orange) perhaps as you suggest along with technique is worth a try. It is also sounding like a compound, followed by polishing, then wax may also be a better option than the Shurhold Buff Magic which is formulated to compound and polish in one step.

 

[davidc]

Without being there to see exactly what's going on, I'd think that it's possible that when doing your compounding with a wool pad and random orbital polisher, you're likely cleaning off some of the oxidation and the oils, sealants, or waxes in your products are masking the appearance of the remaining oxidation. I work on a lot of front roof caps and know that DA polishers (even the Flex 3401) do very little for removing gel coat oxidation. It's absolutely tough stuff that oxidation....

I'd recommend you get yourself a rotary polisher for those wool pads and start from the beginning once more. Once you get the initial oxidation removal done, use your DA with some Duragloss #501 and really work that in doing several section passes to get as much of the product's sealer worked into the gelcoat as good as possible. Repeat the #501 step every few months afterward.

I found that using the most aggressive wool pad I have ( Edge Black ) and 3M super duty compound works very well on Gel Coat. I then use DG 601/501 then top that with 601/111. When I wash I use DG Rinseless which has Aqua Wax and sometimes do a QD with the same Rinseless mixed for QD. I also use a cover when possible as the AZ. Sun is pure torture. With all of that said I went a little over a year with 601/501 then 601/105. Time will tell with the 111 topper which states UV resistance where 105 does not. For washing I also use a Boars Hair brush as it is much softer than a standard RV Brush which leads to less abrasion on the sealant. For some reason now at 61 buffing a 32' ( approximately 950 square feet ) 5th wheel does not really excite me.

Dave

 

[tuscarora dave]

I found that using the most aggressive wool pad I have ( Edge Black ) and 3M super duty compound works very well on Gel Coat. I then use DG 601/501 then top that with 601/111. When I wash I use DG Rinseless which has Aqua Wax and sometimes do a QD with the same Rinseless mixed for QD. I also use a cover when possible as the AZ. Sun is pure torture. With all of that said I went a little over a year with 601/501 then 601/105. Time will tell with the 111 topper which states UV resistance where 105 does not. For washing I also use a Boars Hair brush as it is much softer than a standard RV Brush which leads to less abrasion on the sealant. For some reason now at 61 buffing a 32' ( approximately 950 square feet ) 5th wheel does not really excite me.

Dave

I hear you on not being so excited about buffing these big rigs.

You using that Edge pad on a rotary right? I love the Edge wool pads!!

 

[tuscarora dave]

It used to take me 10 hours to cut the super rough severe oxidation off of these old traded in shuttle bus roof caps. That was using wool pad, (3M 2+2 Superbuff) 3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound and a rotary on speed setting #5.

When I get these super neglected buses in now, I scuff off the oxidation with 3M purple Schotch Brite pads then hit them with any old heavy compound (the $29 a gallon local stuff) on a twisted wool pad with my trusty Makita rotary. What used to take 10 hours, now takes 3.

In production, that's the name of the game!!

 

[tuscarora dave]

Thank you again. I do have in my arsenal, foam cutting pads (yellow & orange) perhaps as you suggest along with technique is worth a try. It is also sounding like a compound, followed by polishing, then wax may also be a better option than the Shurhold Buff Magic which is formulated to compound and polish in one step.

You're quite welcome Bruce.. Keep on trying different things in smaller test areas until you find the "Magic Bullet" and once you find it, run with it!!

 

[davidc]

I hear you on not being so excited about buffing these big rigs.

You using that Edge pad on a rotary right? I love the Edge wool pads!!

Rotary is the only tool for oxidized Gel Coat. That stuff is down right brutal. Everytime I have to do that RV I look 32' down the side and know it goes 8' across, 32' back up the other side and 8' across to where I started along with being close to 12' off the ground. Just thinking about it wears me out. I had to have at least 40 hrs the last time I did it. Then after the oxidation removal is complete it is two trips around, one with 601/501 then 601/111. It is better now being once a year with the latest routine. It use to be every three months or so. I have a few Edge wool pads, tried the green but it wasn't long before I moved to the black, between the black and the 3M ( Rocks in a Bottle ) it made the chore so much easier. I had to wear goggles with the 3M compound, it was like working in a sand storm.

Dave

 

[tuscarora dave]

Rotary is the only tool for oxidized Gel Coat. That stuff is down right brutal. Everytime I have to do that RV I look 32' down the side and know it goes 8' across, 32' back up the other side and 8' across to where I started along with being close to 12' off the ground. Just thinking about it wears me out. I had to have at least 40 hrs the last time I did it. Then after the oxidation removal is complete it is two trips around, one with 601/501 then 601/111. It is better now being once a year with the latest routine. It use to be every three months or so. I have a few Edge wool pads, tried the green but it wasn't long before I moved to the black, between the black and the 3M ( Rocks in a Bottle ) it made the chore so much easier. I had to wear goggles with the 3M compound, it was like working in a sand storm.

Dave

I could only imagine....:doh::surrender:

The difference between 3M Super Duty and the El Cheapo dealership supply house rocks in a bottle is quite a bit in price and also in effectiveness. I love using the 3M SD but often end up buying the El Cheapo gallon for around $30 and putting in a few more hours worth of work. I think next time I have to do one I'll buy the 3M stuff.

 

[davidc]

I could only imagine....:doh::surrender:

The difference between 3M Super Duty and the El Cheapo dealership supply house rocks in a bottle is quite a bit in price and also in effectiveness. I love using the 3M SD but often end up buying the El Cheapo gallon for around $30 and putting in a few more hours worth of work. I think next time I have to do one I'll buy the 3M stuff.

Be sure to have your goggles, not safety glasses. That sand in the eyeballs can hurt and it just seems to float around you, don't ask me how I know.

Dave

 

[Hermes1]

Rotary is the only tool for oxidized Gel Coat. That stuff is down right brutal. Everytime I have to do that RV I look 32' down the side and know it goes 8' across, 32' back up the other side and 8' across to where I started along with being close to 12' off the ground. Just thinking about it wears me out. I had to have at least 40 hrs the last time I did it. Then after the oxidation removal is complete it is two trips around, one with 601/501 then 601/111. It is better now being once a year with the latest routine. It use to be every three months or so. I have a few Edge wool pads, tried the green but it wasn't long before I moved to the black, between the black and the 3M ( Rocks in a Bottle ) it made the chore so much easier. I had to wear goggles with the 3M compound, it was like working in a sand storm.

Dave

Luckily for me the oxidation problem is only on the front cap, which represents a surface area in the neighborhood of 4x8'. The lower section is painted with a bed liner product to ward off damage from road debris.

 

[Paul A.]

I tackle almost every gelcoat approach with 100% woolpads and my rotary. That stuff is tough and responds well to a very aggressive approach, depending on condition. The GG RO, cranked all the way up and maybe some thin MF cutting pads and a good, stout compound might prove similar to a rotary approach. Then, maybe several section passes to get you some results.

 

[Hermes1]

Thank you Puckman. So this prompts another question. Considering gel coat is so tough and a rotary seems to be the best tool for the job, how much danger of damage would my inexperienced hands be in on gel coat with a rotary machine? Because of my lack of experience with rotary machines, I would not get within 10 feet of my cars with one, considering the less forgiving and more delicate clear coat, but with my TT and gel coat, is there room for me to learn? I am hoping the dealer/mfg will take care of it for me, but if not I will try using my Griot's Garage RO with the suggestions Tuscora Dave & others made, especially since it is not a large area to do. If those fail, I might then look at getting a rotary, although I would do so as a last resort as I do not see me using it a lot.

 

[davidc]

With a R O I doubt you could harm anything but decals if your running high speed. You may not even make any head way with the R O as it may not even spin on the oxidation. If you use a rotary keep it on low speed until you get a feel for it, with wool pads of course. Under no circumstances cross or get close to decals at high speed unless you want to remove them. I am sure your dealer can fix your problem for a nominal charge. There is this for Gel Coat, I do not have any experience with it but the editor of Trailer life had a write up saying he uses on his motor home.
Poliglow Products, Inc.| Manufacturer of Poli Glow, A New Concept in Boat Polish

Dave

Dave

 

[Hoytman]

Should this thing really be oxidizing that bad being bought on March of 2014? I wouldn't think so, but then again...

Should you be using heavy compounds on it? See above.

I don't doubt Dave's comments or his experience, but I think he may understand what I'm getting at here and I know he won't take offense to my caution.

I can tell you from my own experience on a 1976 Boston Whaler that, after being told by the manufacture that I'd have to sand the gel-coat to get it to shine, your Buff Magic is more than capable, even with wool on a DA, of removing the type of oxidation that a 2014 model should have. BM pink is a quality product capable of removing many, many years of oxidation with wool and a rotary. It may take a while, in that case use BM white or another similar products, of which there are a few. I'm saying that BM should have fixed this already.


I'm wondering if something isn't going on with the gel-coat.

1. Be sure with the dealer that it IS, indeed, gel-coat.

2. Call and tell the dealer what's going on and ask them what they recommend using on it.

3. For gosh sake's don't tell them what you've already used on it. I've heard of a few instances where folks were told they used the wrong product, didn't ask what to use and got their warranty voided...though I'm almost certain the wool got pulled over their eyes.

Something about this being a 2014 model and already oxidizing to the point of needing wool, compounds and a rotary sends of a red flag in the air with me. Perhaps I need to reread the posts.