Setting up a business/ the hoops to do so

"The Op stated he works full time in management at a body shop. Each week when he gets a paycheck he would have tax withholding taken out of his paycheck. That means uncle SAM would be getting some of his money weekly,he would not then send them more money quarterly."

Bingo. My post mentioned this, and it is in the IRS materials I referred to also. Reduce the number of exemptions claimed on the W-4 at the current full time job by one, and it will probably all net out at year end. Plus you can write off your product purchases at AG!

Entity is probably overkill for a part-timer, and that's part of what the OP, and probably many in his situation, wanted to know. On these facts, rustytruck is making the right calls.
 
G35. Thanks, you stated in a very succinct manner what I hoped the OP would take out of it, specifically trying to get a sense of perspective in relation to the areas he inquired about- entity formation, payroll and the like. My strong suspicion is that he doesn't need a corp, and does not need to deal with payroll; he just needs to know how to deal with quarterlies in preparation for a schedule C attachment to his 1040 at the end of the year.
Unfortunately I can't just tell him that because it could create exposure on my end. I am an attorney (which was probably obvious from the post) but I am not a Maryland attorney so I cannot provide specific advice to him in a professional capacity as I don't have a license to do so in that state. Hopefully the general nature of the advice was helpful.
BTW, I am typing this on phone while I wait for the application of CG Blacklight to cure on my car. Love this product on metallic paint b

Hello Rmd - we have never met but I would like to just say THANKS ALOT from this post I have gained abit more insight on my business, Feels good having some insight from a legal professional even though you cannot go to far into depth but ever bits help. Most starting out really can' t afford legal advice and IMO prepaid legal is not much help and Having someone such as yourself knowing our business (Detailing) is a great benefit.
 
Sorry to Op don't want to thread jack up - For those starting out look into legal advice or tax professional first but there is a thing called HOBBY TAX that may be worth while looking into hopefully Rmd (Legal)or a tax professional from this forum can offer more insight
 
I can't give you specifics of Maryland, but I can offer some general comments based on your original post.

With regard to business entity formation, the typical forms are sole proprietorship, corporation, and limited liability company (LLC). You can operate as a business in sole proprietor mode, it is not necessary to form a distinct entity. There are reasons why people operate as entities though, and whether you should or not is totally dependent on your specific situation.

To operate as a sole proprietor, all the business activity runs under and is reported under your Federal Tax ID Number (which is an SSN for most people citizens). You keep track of revenues, expenses, etc and report it on your year end taxes, IRS schedule "c". It is possible to obtain business insurance, licenses, and the like as a sole proprietor and it is the simplest way to operate. Everything that the business does, is the same as you doing it personally from a tax and liability perspective.

Forming an entity is done primarily to put a barrier between your personal assets and finances, and those of the business operation. Most common forms for a services business are corporation and LLC. Although this is dependent on state law, an LLC is generally more flexible, but also more complicated. Its generally not advantageous to do a "single member LLC," which would be the case if it was just you owning and operating. Corporation is an easier beast to manage and deal with, and would generally be a better move for a small solo operator. Having proper insurance as a sole proprietor is a good way to insulate you from business liability/exposure if the potential risk is minimal.

If you choose to form an entity, either an LLC or a corp can elect to be treated as a "disregarded entity" whereby the business maintains separate income and expense records, files its own tax returns, and any resulting profit or loss is reported by you on your personal return. Tax on profit, or credit for loss, is taxed or credited along with all of your other income. This treatment is what as "S" corp is as opposed to a regular tax treatment of a corp called a "C" corp. Either one is the same corporation, the letters refer to the way that you elect for the Service to tax them and what return forms you use. S would almost always be preferable for a corp with few shareholders (especially if the few is actually one, and it is you). Regular "C" corps report income, and expenses, and have to pay a tax on profit themselves. If there is any profit left over after that, it can be paid down to you as income, and then you pay income taxes on that. You want to avoid the "double taxation" so make the election.

I cannot tell you the mechanics of forming an entity in MD. There are online companies that can do most of it for one, LegalZoom is one. I have had clients use it and it worked well for them. YMMV. Also, they merely create forms at your direction and are not a substitute for advice of counsel or tax professionals to determine what you actually need.

Obviously, the anticipated revenue and scale of your business will bear heavily on which way you go. The smaller the operation, the less likely it is that you need anything complicated or heavily structured. The presence of any employees other than yourself is also of paramount importance.
I'll post a little more later on the employee angle.

Just re-read your post and you say you will be the only employee. Good, that is much easier to deal with. No workers comp insurance premiums, payroll taxes for others etc.

It is not a requirement that you set up a payroll and give yourself paychecks. In fact, it probably makes no sense in your situation. Writing paychecks involves determining how much you want to pay yourself and then you have to determine how much should be withheld from your own check for taxes, and set that aside. In addition, you have to pay over additional tax withholdings to the Service as the employer. (Employers also pay taxes on their employee's salaries). Computing all this is a PITA for a small operation. I believe quickbooks or other accounting software can do it, but then Quickbooks is a PITA itself.

you can certainly just write yourself checks out of the business profits, but you have to keep track of the financials. Cannot emphasize that enough; do not just "wing it" with money. If you are not actively payrolling yourself, then every quarter you prepare an IRS form where you list an estimate of revenues and expenses, and you pay the IRS a quarterly payment based on what you believe the profits will be. At the end of the year its reconciled on your returns and if you overpaid, you get a refund, or underpaid you owe. Just like regular W-2 employee. Your tax liability as determined by the tax return will include sums that are equivalent to the employer matching for income tax, social security disability etc that happens when you are working for someone else, and I don't remember the exact percentage at the moment.

Payroll is something that you will have to do if you hire employees, but that is down the line when your business starts rolling.

After you decide to form an entity or not, you will need to get the business licensed by the governmental agency applicable, be that city, county, whatever in MD. If your business name is anything other than your name, or the name of a corp you form, most states require a "fictitious name statement" that is filed with city or county or state. Its not a big deal, but must be done if required in your state.

Then, once you deal with all that, you can concentrate on trying to make money!

Lastly with regard to this and my prior lengthy post, these are general comments and not specific to your individual situation. I can't give you specific advice because I don't know the rules in MD and am not a lawyer there. These comments are also not intended to be a substitute for your discussing your specific situation with a lawyer or tax professional in your area, if you decide that you would feel more comfortable after talking to one about starting a business. The earlier post by PureShine is a helpful perspective from someone in the detailing business, but I can't definitely say that you don't need a lawyer, its up to you and your comfort level. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, though.

Hope it all goes well for you, and wish you success making money doing something you love.

-Ryan

Ryan....:applause:
:)

No seriously, this should be a sticky!

I was raised by parents that always worked for themselves. Dad was a Dry Cleaner with his own plant and multiple locations after WWII through the late 60's, then they opened a string of Beauty Salons (that they wanted me to take over and I just couldn't bring myself to be a part of). :doh:

That however had made its mark on my future as I ended up leaving a union job in my mid 20's and opening a Towing Service that I ran for 18 years. Even started a home theater consulting/design/sales/installation company that I moved into towards the end as my background in architecture back in HS/college brought me back to what I 'know'. ;) Adding to that, even my wife operated a business on the side (of her regular job) for a number of years.

With the exception of the salon(s) none of our businesses were C-corps. Just too much paperwork involved, (not with the filing but as you know; with the day to day, month to month, quarterlys, etc.)

You mentioned Quickbooks, and I agree it is a PITA, although perhaps a necessary evil. Much better IMHO than Quicken to keep up with a business. I would suspect it is much easier these days than when I opened it the first time over 20 years ago. The hard part is actually setting it up, deciding on catagories, naming each and every darned thing you touch and the like. :rolleyes: Then of course the drudgery of all that data input to keep it all up-to-date. I've built and setup databases to keep up with all that before QB ever came along (back in the Win 3.1 days) and quickly tired of the data input. Remembering a computer is nothing other than an IO device. (Input Output, and if you don't put anything in, you never get anything out.)

I'd say the best thing of a sole proprietorship (besides working for oneself) is the freedom to do whatever you want, and as far as expenses, almost everything is a tax writeoff. Heck, you can go on vacation, do a detailing class while visiting Mickey Mouse, just mention your business to someone, and write all that off (within reason of course). :laughing:

Paying taxes on any and all business income then trying to write yourself a check, which is taxed yet again just doesn't cut it. OTOH as a sole proprietor you're only tax liability is based on your 'joint' income (if married), 'after deductions'. Paying quarterly estimated taxes need not be painful if you know what your deductions / itemizations are on your Sch C. For that matter it's possible to lose money as a business while paying yourself and still end up with a Tax Refund. (Again, this is TOTALLY based on a couples or individuals tax liability and should be discussed with your accountant.) I do know it to be true however, that actually you can do this for several years as a business and be fine. Although should someone take that route there will be a time if you're not making any money (or at least not showing it to the IRS) to declare your 'business' as a 'hobby' and the IRS puts an end to it. ;)

The one thing I might add as far as insulating of liability is put anything of value in your wife's name. Really not an issue with a detailing business as a proper insurance policy can cover even the most expensive vehicles. In my Towing Business however, with our litigious society, the risk of a crash involving one of my trucks was far too great to risk losing my home, even with multi-million dollar policies in place. (If you don't own anything, they can't take it from ya'.) ;)

I'm sure you've seen it all along the way. Being creative witth your accounting, having a GOOD tax accountant, and keeping receipts on EVERYTHING are tantamount to success as a sole proprietor. It is very rewarding, yet beyond frustrating at times. Even though now retired, I wouldn't trade my years doing it for anything.

Just my 2¢ worth....
 
The Op stated he works full time in management at a body shop. Each week when he gets a paycheck he would have tax withholding taken out of his paycheck. That means uncle SAM would be getting some of his money weekly,he would not then send them more money quarterly. At the end of the year he would file taxes and claim "other income" from detailing. If he makes 50k at the body shop and grosses 12k detailing but has 7k in expenses the he would pay taxes on 55k.

I think it starts to get more complex the bigger you get. As long as it is a part time gig for extra money/hobby then you can keep it simple.

"The Op stated he works full time in management at a body shop. Each week when he gets a paycheck he would have tax withholding taken out of his paycheck. That means uncle SAM would be getting some of his money weekly,he would not then send them more money quarterly."

Bingo. My post mentioned this, and it is in the IRS materials I referred to also. Reduce the number of exemptions claimed on the W-4 at the current full time job by one, and it will probably all net out at year end. Plus you can write off your product purchases at AG!

Entity is probably overkill for a part-timer, and that's part of what the OP, and probably many in his situation, wanted to know. On these facts, rustytruck is making the right calls.

Sorry guys... didn't read these earlier.

This is a similar boat to what I was in for almost 20 years. While I didn't have another income, my *wife* did. We filed a joint return and our tax liability was based only on the total from her W-2 and our 3 Sch C's (less deductions) IE total profit. Given enough withholding on her part, we didn't have to pay any other "estimated" taxes during the year. On the years I purchased new equipment, and took a maximum 179 deduction (for instance) we could show a loss and get substantial refunds. (The 179 deduction is however only good for depreciable equipment that you intend to keep for the life of the deduction/depreciation.)

I'd say to look at any liability as it relates to SS income and make sure you are up to date there. Not getting into the topic as to whether or not SS will actually be here 30 ~ 40 years from now, just the fact that it must be paid now. As long as we keep up with "consecutive quarters" of payments as to our future eligibility we're fine. (As I found out when having to file for disability and postponing it for 5 years after I actually stopped working.) Were I not to have kept up, I could have lost 'elegibility'.

That being said, it is easy enough to run numbers as to the first year of income / expense and plug those into say Turbo Tax to figure out where you would stand. If it says you'll owe you have choices. Either 1: pay more estimated taxes, 2: change witholdings, 3: come up with more itemized deductions to offset any possible income. (IE spend more at AG!) :)

Remembering EVERYTHING you spend is a deduction, tools, rags, supplies, cell phone bills, vehicle expenses/mileage, work clothes (including shoes), even a portion of your home if it's set aside as a dedicated office and isn't used as 'family space'. That portion of all utilities can also be deducted....(especially as you would use your own AC, heat and electric), and the list goes on. ;)

On the business license thing, checking with city / county regs would be a good idea. Some will be fine with only the municipality where you reside license, others will require city and county. IOW's as an example.... Here you have to have one where you have 1; your main office, 2; where you have a brance office, and 3; where you do 51% or more of your business. So if say you live in the county you have a license there, but if you have a large account that represents 51% or more of your income at a dealership in another city (even if that city is in another county or STATE) you'd need a license there as well.
 
Wow, thank you all so much for all of the help, I never thought about forming a sole proprietorship. Just throwing this out there, but is that the way most people go? I would be a little worried with lawsuit happy people and how well insurance covers a sp. My grandfather owned a mechanical shop for 30+ years, and his dentist came to him for an oil change and tire rotation before he went on vacation to Florida for a few weeks, after driving four thousand miles, a tire exploded. He sued my grandfather and the court sided with him that he must have over tightened the wheel and that's what caused the tire to explode.
 
I have an LLC with me as the only employee makes taxes very simple.
 
Wow, thank you all so much for all of the help, I never thought about forming a sole proprietorship. Just throwing this out there, but is that the way most people go? I would be a little worried with lawsuit happy people and how well insurance covers a sp. My grandfather owned a mechanical shop for 30+ years, and his dentist came to him for an oil change and tire rotation before he went on vacation to Florida for a few weeks, after driving four thousand miles, a tire exploded. He sued my grandfather and the court sided with him that he must have over tightened the wheel and that's what caused the tire to explode.

What happened to your grandfather was unfortunate, yet likely avoidable albeit expensive to do so (by different representation). I would not let that dissuade me from a sole proprietorship. However if you are seriously considering going with a corporation, it would be well advised to either do your research and/or speak with an attorney as to Sub Corp C vs LLC. Different benefits between them are worth exploring.

I once had a customer, an investigator for a very high end law firm. He had warehouses all around the 7 county metro Atlanta area with undamaged, slightly wrecked, all the way to total loss vehicles in them. (Crashed, undamaged, even burnt to a crisp.) He would call to have me meet him at a location, load up the vehicle, and meet yet another investigator, or scientist even, sometimes 50 miles away to go over the vehicle in an attempt to work towards a settlement on the case.

Their big thing was product liability and boy did they get serious about it! They would go after anything that they thought would end up with a multi-million dollar settlement, up to and including tens of millions.

Having access to deep pockets will end up giving one results sometimes that provides a means to an end. It isn't uncommon for not just guys like this but your insurance company as well (if it helps them avoid a costly settlement). I've taken cars more times that I can remember to a lab full of forensic scientists to not only tear them apart bolt by bolt, but even do full metallurgical analysis on parts and wiring to perhaps show that it was a manufacturer defect or MORE LIKELY that you burned your car up to keep from making payments! (It happens more than you know!!!!!) ;)

Back in the day, if you bought two tires, they alway put them on the steering axle. Just made sense if you maintained steering control you were safer. Those guys filed, and won a $9 million dollar settlement, where a woman in her late 20's driving a Ford Probe (front wheel drive) had TWO tires installed, on the front, and ended up losing control in a rainstorm resulting in her losing her life. That was filed against a large tire store chain and they didn't even have a chance!

The argument was that she was driving beyond her limits due to confidence that was inspired by the grip of her new front tires (where the rears were worn). Even though witnesses and the police investigators had accounted that she was speeding.

As for your grandfather, overtighting the lug nuts would never have caused a tire explosion. Tires need air to cool, too little air and the tire will blow and too much air just doesn't cause tire failure (in my experience, and I've got 1.5 million accident free miles in a commercial vehicle). If the tire exploded it was likely low. Other than that, the lug nuts could have been loose, causing the wheel to wobble which will break off the lugs long before the tire fails. What will happen when wheels have been rotated and retorqued is they will FALL OFF. Owners manuals will even tell you to pull over and stop after 100 miles on a newly installed wheel and re-torque lug nuts. Don't do it, and you are asking for trouble, especially if hauling any heavy weights or driving long distances.

This HAS HAPPENED to me!!!!! On a rollback with a Dodge mini-van on the bed and a Caprice wagon on the wheel lift both at the time! :( Felt a wobble and all of a sudden my outside left rear PASSED me on I-16! Broke 5 of 8 studs like they were made of ice. Stuck me on the side of the road for 6 hours while my wife and partner rounded up new parts, new wheels and tires, and delivered them to me 150 miles from home. And YES the Ford dealership had just put the back wheels back on it the day before. (yet I didn't stop to re-torque them.) :dunno:

The point is.... if someone *really* wants to come after you, and they have the means (deep pockets and/or connections) then by george THEY WILL! And no LLC will ever protect you from that. The only real protection is insurance, lots and lots of insurance.
 
Thanks Tony. This forum has great people who are willing to share their knowledge and experience. Glad I could contribute.
 
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