Should I Use ultimate polish vs paint cleaner every 3months prior to a new sealant???

[jeffreyp]

HELLO from INDONESIA..

This is my 1st post in this forum..
Before this basically the detailing skills that I have was non existant..
I read and learnt so so much from this forum, although its all still pretty the basics stuff.
Special Thanks to Mr. Mike Phillips, with all your do-able and logical theory..that make me love detailing world and make me love my car even more.

To Mr. Mike Phillips, to all detailing enthusiast and experts, I need some insights here..
I've read some posts on this issue, but I cant find the answer I need.

My situation currently:
I have "gloss enchancing P21S paint cleanser" and "Meguiars Ultimate Polish."
My plan is to wax/seal about every 3 months or so.
My car is a 2015 black Honda CRV if that helps, and I'm sure this car's paint is categorize as typical Japanese soft paint, definitely definitely not a hard paint.
I currently only wish to apply by hand with standard foam applicator pads.
I have no rotary/DA skills at all.

So the main topic:
I've read some opinions, many indicating that: if you're going to go through the trouble of applying something before a wax/sealant to cleanse the paint, why not use a fine or ultra fine cut polish as it will also correct very minor defects+cleanse the paint..I definitely can understand their point.

My concern:
1. Wouldn't something essentially zero abrasive such as P21s paint cleanser be ideal? My car's paint current state have only minor minor defects. Any Thoughts on this matter?

2. If I'm using ultimate polish+yellow foam applicator pad + work by hand, can I cause marring or hazing or light swirl into my soft CRV black paint?
Because I dont want to make new defects into my car's paint, but I also understand that ultimate polish contain abrasives..I also note that ultimate polish contain polishing oils.

3. If I choose to use ultimate polish and finally Ultimate wax/NXT...prior to ultimate polish should I use P21S paint cleanser or any paint cleaner, just to strip all the previous waxes/sealants???
or does ultimate polish can also perform well on this "LSP stripping" task?

4. Can i use ultimate polish as a dedicated paint cleaner that can function well to "strip all the wax/sealant" while simultaneously "expecting the rich polishing oil to nourish the paint", but at the same time "not causing a new haze /light scratch/light swirl to the black paint."


Long story short my ultimate goal is this:
*I'm not expecting to correct paint at all, therefore I'm not hoping to create a new defect too in this process.
*I just want to strip all the old layer of wax/sealant before applying a new coat of wax/sealant, but I also want to nourish my paint with polishing oil prior to applying my favourite LSP such as Klasse sealant, Meguiar Ultimate or NXT, etc.

I hope all the friendly experienced guys here, also especially the "Rockstar" Mr. Mike Phillips himself can help to clarify me on this matter..

Thank You All For Your Kind attention

Best Regards

 

[fightnews]

HELLO from INDONESIA..

This is my 1st post in this forum..
Before this basically the detailing skills that I have was non existant..
I read and learnt so so much from this forum, although its all still pretty the basics stuff.
Special Thanks to Mr. Mike Phillips, with all your do-able and logical theory..that make me love detailing world and make me love my car even more.

To Mr. Mike Phillips, to all detailing enthusiast and experts, I need some insights here..
I've read some posts on this issue, but I cant find the answer I need.

My situation currently:
I have "gloss enchancing P21S paint cleanser" and "Meguiars Ultimate Polish."
My plan is to wax/seal about every 3 months or so.
My car is a 2015 black Honda CRV if that helps, and I'm sure this car's paint is categorize as typical Japanese soft paint, definitely definitely not a hard paint.
I currently only wish to apply by hand with standard foam applicator pads.
I have no rotary/DA skills at all.

So the main topic:
I've read some opinions, many indicating that: if you're going to go through the trouble of applying something before a wax/sealant to cleanse the paint, why not use a fine or ultra fine cut polish as it will also correct very minor defects+cleanse the paint..I definitely can understand their point.

My concern:
1. Wouldn't something essentially zero abrasive such as P21s paint cleanser be ideal? My car's paint current state have only minor minor defects. Any Thoughts on this matter?

2. If I'm using ultimate polish+yellow foam applicator pad + work by hand, can I cause marring or hazing or light swirl into my soft CRV black paint?
Because I dont want to make new defects into my car's paint, but I also understand that ultimate polish contain abrasives..I also note that ultimate polish contain polishing oils.

3. If I choose to use ultimate polish and finally Ultimate wax/NXT...prior to ultimate polish should I use P21S paint cleanser or any paint cleaner, just to strip all the previous waxes/sealants???
or does ultimate polish can also perform well on this "LSP stripping" task?

4. Can i use ultimate polish as a dedicated paint cleaner that can function well to "strip all the wax/sealant" while simultaneously "expecting the rich polishing oil to nourish the paint", but at the same time "not causing a new haze /light scratch/light swirl to the black paint."


Long story short my ultimate goal is this:
*I'm not expecting to correct paint at all, therefore I'm not hoping to create a new defect too in this process.
*I just want to strip all the old layer of wax/sealant before applying a new coat of wax/sealant, but I also want to nourish my paint with polishing oil prior to applying my favourite LSP such as Klasse sealant, Meguiar Ultimate or NXT, etc.

I hope all the friendly experienced guys here, also especially the "Rockstar" Mr. Mike Phillips himself can help to clarify me on this matter..

Thank You All For Your Kind attention

Best Regards

well i just ordered the griots garage paint prep. seems like this would be perfect for you its a spray on pre wax cleaner. also i think that using ultimate polish by hand will not have much if any correction ability but im not a hundred percent sure on that. it will definitely clean and nourish the paint without causing any damage. at least on my car not sure about the softer paints.

i think that when you work by hand the pressure your putting down on the applicator and how aggressive you are using it all come into effect. i like the machine a lot better you can do way more work then by hand you should get one.

 

[Eldorado2k]

1. I've never used P21s Paint Cleanser, but from the sounds of it, sure why not.

2. Can you cause swirls by using Ultimate Polish by hand with a foam applicator? It's possible, based on how soft your paint is, your technique [working by hand can is very hard to generalize, because 1 persons version of gentle could be aggressive in the opinion of another], another factor is the applicator and towels you use to apply/remove.


3. If you're going to use Ultimate Polish, there's no need to use a paint cleanser for the purpose of removing lsp, as the Ultimate Polish will take care of that.

4. Yes, if all things go well, it can do exactly that for you.


That being said, instead of worrying about removing lsp, I think you should think about whether or not the paint needs to be clayed prior to applying a fresh coat of lsp. You're selling yourself short if you're applying a fresh coat of protection over rough, contaminated paint.

If it was me I wouldn't even worry about removing lsp prior to applying a new layer of it. I never do. [unless it's about to be a drastic change from the norm] But if it's just going to be more of the same stuff, I aint removing nothing.

Just think of it this way... If for whatever reason you felt like applying a fresh layer of sealant after a couple of weeks and 2 bucket washes, would you deem it critical to remove the layer of sealant you just applied 2 weeks prior? Of course not...

As far as using Ultimate Polish every 3 months mainly for the sake of removing lsp prior to applying a fresh layer? I wouldn't be doing that... Not saying that it's going to put your paint in certain danger of thining out prematurely, but depending on all the possible factors, you never know.

Would I use the paint cleanser every 3 months? I wouldn't bother doing that either... Once again, I'd be more concerned on whether my paint is passing the baggy test or not [claying]

If your paint is getting a fresh coat of sealant and being washed and kept clean in between, then your paint should remain in good enough condition to not require a "polish" or "cleaning" more than maybe once a year, twice at the most.

If you do decide to go ahead with hand polishing your paint that frequently, do yourself a favor and use brand new foam applicators everytime. And pray you were born with good technique. Lol. Good luck!





Sent from my iPhone

 

[FUNX650]

•Meguiar's has two types of polishes:
-Cleaner polishes = have abrasives
-Pure polishes = have no abrasives

•IMO:
-Since Meguiar's Ultimate Polish has
abrasives...it will clean the paint.
(Can't forget about its T.S.-Oils)
-Using an additional "Paint Cleaner"
product would be inessential.



Bob

 

[jeffreyp]

i think that using ultimate polish by hand will not have much if any correction ability but im not a hundred percent sure on that.
it will definitely clean and nourish the paint without causing any damage. at least on my car not sure about the softer paints.

Thanx for the info.

i think that when you work by hand the pressure your putting down on the applicator and how aggressive you are using it all come into effect. i like the machine a lot better you can do way more work then by hand you should get one.

Yeah..definitely one day I'm getting a DA.

 

[jeffreyp]

2. Can you cause swirls by using Ultimate Polish by hand with a foam applicator? It's possible, based on how soft your paint is, your technique [working by hand can is very hard to generalize, because 1 persons version of gentle could be aggressive in the opinion of another], another factor is the applicator and towels you use to apply/remove.

Nah for the technique part, I always try to follow MP(Mr. Mike Phillips) tips, I dont put pressure on my finger tips, instead i spread the pressure to the palm of my hand.
THe applicator I use is Meguiars standar yellow foam applicator.

As far as using Ultimate Polish every 3 months mainly for the sake of removing lsp prior to applying a fresh layer? I wouldn't be doing that... Not saying that it's going to put your paint in certain danger of thining out prematurely, but depending on all the possible factors, you never know.

Would I use the paint cleanser every 3 months? I wouldn't bother doing that either... Once again, I'd be more concerned on whether my paint is passing the baggy test or not [claying]

If your paint is getting a fresh coat of sealant and being washed and kept clean in between, then your paint should remain in good enough condition to not require a "polish" or "cleaning" more than maybe once a year, twice at the most.

If you do decide to go ahead with hand polishing your paint that frequently, do yourself a favor and use brand new foam applicators everytime. And pray you were born with good technique. Lol. Good luck!

The reason I use paint cleaner all this time is because i dont use clay bar, so for me paint cleaner is replacing clay bar.

Hmm..it seems like for you ultimate polish is too much? too abrasive?

Yes..I have quit few collections of LSPs, so every 3months or so, i'm changing my LSP, example if on January i use Meg Ultimate, on april i can be thinking of switching to Wolfgang sealant, then July maybe back to Meg Ultimate..and the reason i apply sealant in 3months cycle is because the car is a daily driver with a lot of UV exposure and rain, long story short, I have no garage, just a non sheltered driveway.
And that's why every 3months im thinking of cleaning the old LSP.

To sum up based on your concerns about ultimate polish...i think i should just do 2 step..
Using paint cleaner just to remove all the old LSP,
then the second, using ultimate polish as a glaze(the darkening wet look effect), before sealing..

 

[jeffreyp]

•Meguiar's has two types of polishes:
-Cleaner polishes = have abrasives
-Pure polishes = have no abrasives

•IMO:
-Since Meguiar's Ultimate Polish has
abrasives...it will clean the paint.
(Can't forget about its T.S.-Oils)
-Using an additional "Paint Cleaner"
product would be inessential.


Bob

Mr Bob,
Thanks for your input and your attention.
WOW sir you have a history of 20K+ postings on this forum, definitely you are someone i should learn something from

So..from now on, you are suggesting the 3monthly routine will be: wash-> ultimate polish with foam applicator-> LSP.
Please guide me if you think i miss something.

Also, do u think that i can damage my paint by using ultimate polish every 3months?

I havent starting to use ultimate polish on my car..but in the future, if im going to use it, the technique im doing will be to gently massage the polish into my paint with almost no pressure with a foam applicator maybe 2section pass per panel? is that enough to work the polishing oil into the paint?

PS:
Im sorry if you find that some of my vocabulary and grammar are weird...
Im an Indonesian, English is not the first language here..

 

[Eldorado2k]

I don't think Ultimate Polish is too aggressive as long as you play it smart and know what you're doing.. And based on your recent post you should be alright. However I still don't think it's ultra critical to remove a 3 month old layer of sealant, even if a different 1 is being applied.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Eldorado2k]

Why aren't you using clay? I don't think a paint cleanser replaces clay. Does your paint pass the baggie test?


Sent from my iPhone

 

[jeffreyp]

I don't think Ultimate Polish is too aggressive as long as you play it smart and know what you're doing.. And based on your recent post you should be alright. However I still don't think it's ultra critical to remove a 3 month old layer of sealant, even if a different 1 is being applied.


Sent from my iPhone

Thanks Sir..
I appreciate the insights and the quick response you gave me..

 

[jeffreyp]

Why aren't you using clay? I don't think a paint cleanser replaces clay. Does your paint pass the baggie test?


Sent from my iPhone

Haha..i dont quite like the whole process of claying, plus the claybar always soft marr the car, well maybe i did it the wrong way? (meguiar standard clay bar+meg standard qd).

Yes, after i did the paint cleaner, the car PASS the baggie test..smooth like a baby's

 

[Eldorado2k]

Haha..i dont quite like the whole process of claying, plus the claybar always soft marr the car, well maybe i did it the wrong way? (meguiar standard clay bar+meg standard qd).

Yes, after i did the paint cleaner, the car PASS the baggie test..smooth like a baby's

How did the marring from the claybar look? Like little cheetah marks? How did you remove the marring from the claybar? Reason I'm asking is because you say you haven't used the Ultimate Polish yet.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[jeffreyp]

How did the marring from the claybar look? Like little cheetah marks? How did you remove the marring from the claybar? Reason I'm asking is because you say you haven't used the Ultimate Polish yet.


Sent from my iPhone

No, not cheetah..but like a soft hairline scratches..
My car just got detailed by a professional 2months ago, so the claybar marr and scratches are gone, now the defect is still minimum.

 

[shadwell]

No, not cheetah..but like a soft hairline scratches..
My car just got detailed by a professional 2months ago, so the claybar marr and scratches are gone, now the defect is still minimum.

May I offer a simplification?

Pick which sealant you like most..
Continue to use this each 2-3 months after regular washing until used up..
Switch LSP amd diagnose decontamination requirements at that time (polish or Chem only).
start with the newer one and continue etc...

as mike says find what you like and use it often...

All the best

 

[jeffreyp]

Mr. Mike Phillips, can you offer some of your experiences and insights on this matter please?

Best Regards
Jeff.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

HELLO from INDONESIA..

This is my 1st post in this forum.

Before this basically the detailing skills that I have was non existent. I read and learnt so so much from this forum, although its all still pretty the basics stuff.

Special Thanks to Mr. Mike Phillips, with all your do-able and logical theory..that make me love detailing world and make me love my car even more.

Thank you for the kind words, they are much appreciated.

1. Wouldn't something essentially zero abrasive such as P21s paint cleanser be ideal? My car's paint current state have only minor minor defects. Any Thoughts on this matter?

P21S is a great non-abrasive paint cleaner. It will do a great job to prep the paint before application of a wax or sealant.

2. If I'm using ultimate polish+yellow foam applicator pad + work by hand, can I cause marring or hazing or light swirl into my soft CRV black paint?

Because I dont want to make new defects into my car's paint, but I also understand that ultimate polish contain abrasives..I also note that ultimate polish contain polishing oils.

Meguiar's Ultimate Polish is a very safe fine cut abrasive polish. The word abrasive can invoke the idea of a product with GRIT in it but that's not the case with Meguiar's Ultimate Polish or a lot of high quality compounds and polishes on the market. If you feel some between your fingers it will feel like a hand lotion.

As long as the paint is clean and your applicator is clean you should not see any marring, hazing or scratching when working with Meguiar's UP by hand.

3. If I choose to use ultimate polish and finally Ultimate wax/NXT...prior to ultimate polish should I use P21S paint cleanser or any paint cleaner, just to strip all the previous waxes/sealants???
or does ultimate polish can also perform well on this "LSP stripping" task?

No.

Paint cleaners and polishes are EITHER/OR products.

This means you either use one or the other but not both. Using both would be redundant.

4. Can i use ultimate polish as a dedicated paint cleaner that can function well to "strip all the wax/sealant" while simultaneously "expecting the rich polishing oil to nourish the paint", but at the same time "not causing a new haze /light scratch/light swirl to the black paint."

Yes.

Long story short my ultimate goal is this:
*I'm not expecting to correct paint at all, therefore I'm not hoping to create a new defect too in this process.
*I just want to strip all the old layer of wax/sealant before applying a new coat of wax/sealant, but I also want to nourish my paint with polishing oil prior to applying my favorite LSP such as Klasse sealant, Meguiar Ultimate or NXT, etc.

I hope all the friendly experienced guys here, also especially the "Rockstar" Mr. Mike Phillips himself can help to clarify me on this matter..

Thank You All For Your Kind attention

Best Regards

You have the right idea and plan of action.

1. Wash and dry car.
2. Clay if needed.
3. Apply Ultimate Polish.
4. Apply wax.
5. Admire the results.

 

[jeffreyp]

Meguiar's Ultimate Polish is a very safe fine cut abrasive polish. The word abrasive can invoke the idea of a product with GRIT in it but that's not the case with Meguiar's Ultimate Polish or a lot of high quality compounds and polishes on the market. If you feel some between your fingers it will feel like a hand lotion.

As long as the paint is clean and your applicator is clean you should not see any marring, hazing or scratching when working with Meguiar's UP by hand.

So, Mr. Mike..if im going to work UltimatePolish with a foam applicator(i dont hv rotary or DA), how many scrub/section pass that i have to make to remove a defect on a single panel?? because i know you have alot of experiences with removal defect by hand, but me?..i really have no idea the cutting ability of UP, i dont want to scrub too much..it is a soft black paint

The defect i was talking about is lite defect, such as "haze like scratches", i'm sorry I didnt provide u photos, i dont know if this is best to describe them, but the defect looks like what detailers like to say "compounding haze", the scratches are so soft yet dense and cant felt by hand, at first you thought it is finger smudge and then with the right angle and lightings, wow it really stand out like a sore thumb (I'm sure you understand the frustations of taking care a daily driver black SUV)

1. Wash and dry car.
2. Clay if needed.
3. Apply Ultimate Polish.
4. Apply wax.
5. Admire the results.

Mr. Mike..
I read it somewhere else that said "paint cleaner can replace clay bar"?
Im sure what the article meant is about the task of removing dirt and contamination and debris that regular car wash cant do.
What are your thoughts about this?

Im thinking that..Especially on soft black paint like my car, clay bar tends to cause marring, if I own a DA maybe that marr wont be issue, because i will follow up with machine polish the marring caused by claybar ing..
But reality is I dont own any polisher, so can paint cleaner perform well to replace a claybar?

Thanks Mr. Mike..

 

[jeffreyp]

Mr. Mike..

Need your additional answers regarding UP sir?

Thanks

 

[TTQ B4U]

Long story short my ultimate goal is this:
*I'm not expecting to correct paint at all, therefore I'm not hoping to create a new defect too in this process.
*I just want to strip all the old layer of wax/sealant before applying a new coat of wax/sealant, but I also want to nourish my paint with polishing oil prior to applying my favourite LSP such as Klasse sealant, Meguiar Ultimate or NXT, etc.

I will throw you a curve ball and admit I didn't read all the replies but....

I assume your ulitmate goal given an every three month mention is simply to have a a beautiful car year-round. I can relate as I own two black-beauties that I keep nice year-round and we get plenty of snow and muck too.

The curve ball is this; buy a nice entry level polisher like a Griot's Unit or even a porter cable, 3-4 white pads and begin to learn the craft of detailing as you go. In your case, I understand you're not out to "correct" or give a full detail and that's okay. White or black pads along with your Meg's Ulitmate Wax or NXT will work fine. NXT has very light cleaners in it that combined with the buffer will accomplish what you are looking to do and save you time, all while helping you become more comfortable handling a buffer.

Unless you're vehicle is exposed to tons of elements/muck I'm not sure you need to do it every 3 months, but I'll let the baggies test and your observation of the paint condition determine that. I polish my vehicles twice per year, once in the spring after harsh winter and once in very late summer before the fall weather changes. Other than that maybe a random polishing where needed should I see a scratch or something that warrants the buffer.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Paul A.]

With regard to forgoing the claying step i would say inspect your polishing pad after every section, especially on soft paint. The last thing you want is a dislodged bit of grit on your pad causing marring. Same thing goes for your towels. As Mike has often said...work CLEAN.

Good luck shining and protecting that beauty up!