single stage on Aston Martin

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Rastaral39

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Working on a 68 Aston Martin with original paint. 40+ years of deep scratches, waterspotting etc. I have read Mike's 7 page article on restoring single stage and applied the technique. I did a test panel with various compounds [mostly menzerna] and can only diminish the scratches slightly. Mostly what I am doing is taking off an oxidized top layer of dead paint wherein I can achieve a good shine and it looks pretty good [from 10 feet] but virtually no defect removal. I have good paint measurements but knowing what I know i am extremely leery of getting too aggressive with the compond/polish. You know, you get 1 chance and if you screw it up it's game over as they say. Do I/the owner have to live with the defects? and is this normally acceptable for an unrestored vintage automobile?
 
restoring single stage to the highest shine takes alot of time and patience

u can go ahead and wetsand , cut and buff the car

but as u said that was 40 years old paint

so u can do it using meguiars #7 glaze with many many applications by hand

or u can do it with a machine

try doing the same technique but with a microfiber pad or cool wool pad
 
I guess my question was regarding defect removal. I have done the #7 technique, what i am wondering, is this out of the detailers paint correction realm or does it need to go to the bodyshop? i am not willing to risk an error on my part on this car by going too aggressive on the paint which SEEMS to be beyond what polishes and compounding can achieve.
 
Rastaral39 said:
Working on a 68 Aston Martin with original paint. 40+ years of deep scratches, waterspotting etc. I have read Mike's 7 page article on restoring single stage and applied the technique.
Click to expand...

Two questions...

1. Did the #7 treatment bring color and life back to the paint?

2. What color is the paint?




Rastaral39 said:
I did a test panel with various compounds [mostly Menzerna] and can only diminish the scratches slightly. Mostly what I am doing is taking off an oxidized top layer of dead paint wherein I can achieve a good shine and it looks pretty good [from 10 feet] but virtually no defect removal.
Click to expand...

The #7 treatment is to bring old, antique, brittle paint back to life by making it more workable. Once you saturate the paint with the oils found in the #7 then you are good to go to "work" the paint. You can also re-apply the #7 after you've worked the defects out of the paint because as you remove dead paint you'll uncover a new base of good but old paint and it will benefit from the oils too...


Rastaral39 said:
I have good paint measurements but knowing what I know i am extremely leery of getting too aggressive with the compound/polish.

You know, you get 1 chance and if you screw it up it's game over as they say.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and that is one of the points I make in my article,

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

Mike Phillips said:
but because the paint on an old car is thin, dry and fragile, you usually only get one shot at restoring it
Click to expand...


Rastaral39 said:
Do I/the owner have to live with the defects? and is this normally acceptable for an un-restored vintage automobile?
Click to expand...

The defects currently in the paint built-up over the years are called patina.

If the owner wants to preserve the original paint then use your best judgment, be aware of how much risk you yourself are willing to take and go with your instincts.

I think from experience that the paint on this types of cars is actually pretty thick and you could probably do a little compounding and remove at a minimum the shallow defects and then re-polish the paint to a high gloss.

These old paints like a foam pad on a rotary buffer with a product like #3 Machine Glaze which has also been out since around the time of the Model T and if not the Model T then the Model A.

I wish I could be there to lend a hand as my favorite part of the art of polishing paint is restoring antique, original single stage paints.

I would also consider hand rubbing it with a safe compound like the Megs Ultimate Compound and a terry cloth or microfiber applicator pad.


Don't forget to answer the first two questions...


Pictures?


:)
 
the #7 treatment helped as far as bringing out some gloss but that is not my main problem. The defects are numerous as in like some parts [figureatively speaking], like somebody dragged steel wool across it. They are not uniform, all directions. You are correct as far as paint thickness goes, I get measurements of 17 mil and even thicker. I used a tangerine LC 4in. pad with PC DA on #5 and took off a layer of the original DARK GREEN paint. Shine is not a problem, it's defect removal. So how much can I take off? Experimentation makes me really nervous as this is a very high dollar car.

I will get some pic's tonite and post them.
Thanks for the reply's I greatly appreciate them.
 
Also tried Meguiars speed glaze after #7 with DA. Menzerna produced better results without hazing.
 
From what Mike posted in another thread I'm not sure if he'll be back soon to answer, but if it were me I'd stop and leave the defects, if you've got the shine.

If Mike doesn't get back to this thread he is going to be out for a couple of weeks...Todd Helme has done cars like this as well, you might try to get his input over at AutopiaForums.com
 
That looks terrible! You should polish that, LOL. So the only thing you used was #7? Seems like some M205 might be in order, you said you measured plenty of paint.
 
I am afraid, very afraid. It is like that all over really bad just don't want to get too aggressive for fear of cutting through
 
Rastaral39 said:
Also tried Meguiars speed glaze after #7 with DA. Menzerna produced better results without hazing.
Click to expand...


Like I posted above, if it were me, I would probably go ahead and try some compound, either by hand if you want to be uber safe, or by machine. Meguiar's Ultimate Compound works really well by hand and you can modify how aggressive it is by,

  • Your application material
  • Your downward force
  • The number of passes you make

I've buffed out an original Aston Martin DB7 for for BCP, that is the British Car People, in Corvallis, Oregon some years ago, I think the paint was original and it came out perfect. Somewhere on my old laptop I have the pictures.



Here's your picture inserted instead of attached, makes it easier for everyone to see...

British_Racing_Green.jpg




Sometimes what I would do is place a tape line down and then just work on one side of it with you compound or a medium cut polish. This will make it easy to see you're results and if you're removing the defects and making the paint look better or having a negative effect.

Once you dial in a process that shows it's working, remove the tape and then carefully, and methodically work your way around the car panel by panel.

Also be very cautious around any edges or raised body lines and also any of the high points on any raised curved panels where someone else in the past would have found it easy to buff for too long. Paint will be thinnest in these areas and I can tell you from experience when you go through the single stage paint on a car like this and expose the primer you're going to get a sinking feeling in your heart.

Just to note, Meguiar's Ultimate Compound is a SMAT product not a DAT product and this is why I'm recommending it over a traditional DAT or coarse abrasive compound. The abrasive particles are super microscopic in size so it won't scour the paint like an old school compound. I'm always very specific with my "words" when writing on a forum but I don't always give each and every detail for each word, but there you have it, the reason I'm recommending the UC or the M105, by hand or machine.


:)
 
Mike I get readings of 13 mil to infinite on my gauge so I assume the paint is thick as you suggested. What is a reasonable guess as to how much machine compounding with 105 I can do as hard as it is to say for where you are. Can I hammer on this? I have been taking the delicate approach as the norm but it really badly scratched. Thanks so much for your help as well!!!!
 
I just tried some 105 by hand with a 3" tangerine pad. Not much really happened. Sorry to keep bothering you, also the customer is not that picky but it gets to me that I am having a tough time with it, maybe it is just not correctable ( did I say that? )
 
Rastaral39 said:
I just tried some 105 by hand with a 3" tangerine pad. Not much really happened.
Click to expand...



Time to get out the wool pad and start chopping! Or hammering...


I think the paint on this Mercury was either original or a very old and antique repaint, thinking back on it I think it was original. In the thread I link to below I state that I think it was repainted but thinking back on it now, I'm actually thinking it was original. It only had 4,500 miles on the Odometer.


I cut this paint HARD as in real hard because it was FULL of someone else's compounding scratches from a caveman compound. I used Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover on it which is a Medium Cut Polish, I needed a true compound...



1951 Mercury - Black Lacquer Paint - Extreme Makeover


100% Swirled-Out Finish
Here's my Brinkmann Swirl Finder Light revealing the true condition of the paint. Every panel had swirls like you see here and all the horizontal panels had these round crater defects.

1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.003.jpg



Removing Trim
The paint looked so awful on the hood and under the hood ornament. The only way to get under and around the hood ornament was to remove it.
1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.009.jpg


1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.010.jpg



This is the cropped out section of the swirls in the above picture...
1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.010c.jpg







1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.015.jpg


1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.016.jpg


1951_Mercury_Extreme_Detail_by_Mike_Phillips.017.jpg





After reading about your test with the tangerine pad, I whip out the wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer and go to town on her...


:)
 
Yikes! Ok I will try a test spot in a less conspicuous area and see. Thanks a million sincerely for your help and time. I will post some results.
 
I do several older Aston martins, 1 of every series, they tend to have filler from the factory, and a lot of paint. Also because of all the aluminum the paint tend to crack. So make sure you are actually working on defects.
 
I have both. Judging from the picture would you say those are something other than scratches? I was able to get maybe 30-40% correction after hammering on it with a wool pad and 105 but also noticed the paint to be brittle after 2 small paint chips popped revealing primer after the beating I gave it. Shine is there but from 5 feet. Hate to say it but I think the risk vs reward is too great.
 
So how much can I take off? Experimentation makes me really nervous as this is a very high dollar car.
 
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