Soft Black Paint - Removing Polish Oils - Eraser & Prep Causing Towel Marring

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Tim711

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Hi, I have a brand new black car that I'm lightly polishing before applying my lsp of choice. According to the manufacturer of the lsp I have chosen; if the vehicle was compounded and polished than a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol and water must be used for removal of the remaining oils from the polish before application.

I have done extensive testing and I feel that my paint is so soft that during polish removal without the slightest of pressure using a high quality microfiber towel I will cause directional micro-marring.

I want to ensure I remove all the remaining oils from the polish before application of my lsp as required by the manufacturer. I opted to use Eraser or Prep instead of an IPA because of the soft black paint. However, it's difficult enough trying to avoid marring during the dry removal of polish that I have been unable to find a way to use a product such as Eraser or Prep without leaving me with very very very bad directional micro-marring.

I have read posts from members on the AG forums about having great results using OPC for removing polishing oils. Before products like Eraser and Prep existed, when a lsp required an IPA wipedown prior to application -was there a product people used for washing their car after polishing only that would be sufficient for polish oil removal on soft black paint instead of an IPA wipedown?

Q. In my case, since I can't seem to be able to use Eraser or Prep, instead should I now consider washing the car after polishing using P21S TAW, OPC, Dawn dish soap, etc. to remove the remaining oils from the polish before coating? My concerns being that this could cause worse marring or any byproduct that may be left from the wash without a final IPA wipe.

Note: using Menzerna SF3800 (believe it has lots of oils)

Thanks for any help!
Tim
 
Menzerna's 3500 & 3800 finish really well and utilize great abrasive technology and are known for being fantastic on both hard and soft paints. But you are right about them being extremely oily. I know exactly what you're talking about with a polish being difficult to remove with a soft dry microfiber towel so you think it would be beneficial to use IPA or Eraser/paint prep to help provide lubrication to remove the polish but you end up just making everything worse.

The problem is that 3500 and especially 3800 can require so much buffing with a dry microfiber just to remove the polish which causes marring especially on soft paints, then you have to use IPA or a paint prep 1-2 times just to remove all the oils still on the surface that you end up causing so much marring it completely negates the incredible finish these finishing polishes are capable of leaving.

I'm sure guys are tired of hearing me talk about HD Polish+, but it's just so good especially on soft black paint when oily polishes like menzerna are requiring a ton of buffing to remove. The lubricants in HD Polish+ are fantastic because they remove off the paint with very little effort and they never smear or leave behind an oily mess. Your buffing cloths won't get all oily and nasty either.

Onto you're primary question.

I personally use an 11-13% IPA solution in a 32oz bottle with either 1-2oz of N-914 or D114 for additional lubrication. Also, rather than using a high gsm fluffy towel you may have better luck with a lower-pile edgeless 300-365gsm for initially removing the polish and for using with your IPA/paint prep solution.


I definitely wouldn't recommend washing the car with P21s TAW, OPC, or Dawn dish soap. Especially on a car that has just been polished to perfection. Honestly, you'll end up just chasing your tail because even if you manage to wash the car without causing any additional marring, all of them will leave there own surfactants on the paint that will require you to use a paint prep or IPA solution to remove.

Good luck my man
 
I also suffer from the OPs issue. I'm about out of Menzerna 3500, I'll have to give the HD Polish + a try.

For my last coating prep, I used N-914 in the prep-dilution ratio and edgeless towels. It worked pretty well and seemed lubricated.
 
mwoywod said:
Menzerna's 3500 & 3800 finish really well and utilize great abrasive technology and are known for being fantastic on both hard and soft paints. But you are right about them being extremely oily. I know exactly what you're talking about with a polish being difficult to remove with a soft dry microfiber towel so you think it would be beneficial to use IPA or Eraser/paint prep to help provide lubrication to remove the polish but you end up just making everything worse.

The problem is that 3500 and especially 3800 can require so much buffing with a dry microfiber just to remove the polish which causes marring especially on soft paints, then you have to use IPA or a paint prep 1-2 times just to remove all the oils still on the surface that you end up causing so much marring it completely negates the incredible finish these finishing polishes are capable of leaving.

I'm sure guys are tired of hearing me talk about HD Polish+, but it's just so good especially on soft black paint when oily polishes like menzerna are requiring a ton of buffing to remove. The lubricants in HD Polish+ are fantastic because they remove off the paint with very little effort and they never smear or leave behind an oily mess. Your buffing cloths won't get all oily and nasty either.

Onto you're primary question.

I personally use an 11-13% IPA solution in a 32oz bottle with either 1-2oz of N-914 or D114 for additional lubrication. Also, rather than using a high gsm fluffy towel you may have better luck with a lower-pile edgeless 300-365gsm for initially removing the polish and for using with your IPA/paint prep solution.


I definitely wouldn't recommend washing the car with P21s TAW, OPC, or Dawn dish soap. Especially on a car that has just been polished to perfection. Honestly, you'll end up just chasing your tail because even if you manage to wash the car without causing any additional marring, all of them will leave there own surfactants on the paint that will require you to use a paint prep or IPA solution to remove.

Good luck my man
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I didn't actually need to heavily dry buff the residue from Menzerna 3800 because I had worked it just long enough for it to not even be visible on the paint (no visible haze) and then just dry buffed any remaining oils I couldn't visually see. This could totally be the incorrect way to use this product as I don't know how long I should be working it but this didn't leave any visible marring. It's only when I introduce Eraser or Prep to remove any remaining oils from the polish that are hidden prior to coating that I cause excessive marring. I have also tried high and low edgeless gsm towels to no avail.

I will look into HD Polish+ and N-194 as you suggested, thanks.
 
Love Menzerna 3800 waorks great! Gyeon Prep is what I use for cleaning off anything for the final stage of LSP
 
What about IPA or reset in a bucket applied with a plush MF? No pressure, just kind of mop it on, rinse it, and then blow it off. Follow with application of LSP. Keep everything super wet. Maybe add a little N-914 like mwoywod said.
 
Scholls S40 works nicely on soft, black paint. Very little product usage, nice wipe off.
 
Reflect is another polish that removes extremely easily. I've never used it on really soft paint, but it has definitely worked great and wiped right off of everything I've used it on. May wipe off even easier than HD which I also use and really like.
 
Well if your paint is that soft then my suggestion is two ounces of N914 and an ounce of IPA (70% USP) in a 22 ounce bottle of water. That should do a decent job at removing polishing oils. Both my cars have very soft paint but I've never had an issue with Eraser before. I have used the above combo when I work on a car and it is indeed just that soft.
 
Tim711 said:
AMMO Reflex
Click to expand...

I could not find anything about using IPA prior to application other than the video where Larry mentions stripping any previous waxes or sealants with IPA wipes. Other than that the other info from other members will help you out.
 
Reflex is AMMO's version of a coating. It's not bad, but it's not really at the same level as the usual offerings. One year durability, suggested re-apply at the 6 month mark. Polishing oil does need to be removed before application. Recommended you apply Reflex, and then Ammo Skin as the regime and use Ammo Hydrate after washes.
 
The Guz said:
I could not find anything about using IPA prior to application other than the video where Larry mentions stripping any previous waxes or sealants with IPA wipes. Other than that the other info from other members will help you out.
Click to expand...

He mentions it in this video at 11:47; https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANy...UMTR7CB6yIzcldRLRmBfxcjRTDNJe_g&v=wh39s4q38nY
"Keep in mind if you did in fact need to compound and polish your car, you'll now need to use a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol and water to remove the remaining oils from the polish before applying Reflex."
 
WillSports3 said:
Reflex is AMMO's version of a coating. It's not bad, but it's not really at the same level as the usual offerings. One year durability, suggested re-apply at the 6 month mark. Polishing oil does need to be removed before application. Recommended you apply Reflex, and then Ammo Skin as the regime and use Ammo Hydrate after washes.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this information. I do in fact plan to use Ammo Skin as the regime and use Ammo Hydrate after washes. I am good with the durability of Ammo Reflex as you explained and I feel it's the best option for me because of the ease of use and the fairly long durability when paired with Ammo Skin. I am not interested in using other traditional coatings. Just having a hard time trying to find a way to avoid marring while trying to prep for Reflex.
 
Update:

I tried a test spot using Menzerna Control Cleaner instead of Eraser or Prep to remove any residual oils. It appeared as though I was able to apply it the same way as the others while avoiding marring. I will have to do more extensive testing to definitely determine if it's not causing marring the same way the others had.

Something that was interesting and I would like to know if others who have used this product had the same results. It applied just like Eraser or Prep while wet but once a dry side of the towel was used it would start to haze on the paint -is it suppose to do this? The haze actually had me concerned at first as if I may have damaged the paint, looked dull. I was able to remove the haze fairly easily with light circular buffing with a microfiber towel. It almost seemed as though it may have been trying to encapsulate any residual oils, allowing for a dry removal rather than wet. This may be the reason Control Cleaner is possibly not be marring the paint as I was able to dry buff the paint very lightly during polish removal, it is only when I used Eraser or Prep that marring occurred.

If my further testing proves that Control Cleaner can be used without marring my paint, would this be a suitable substitute to using a 50/50 mixture of IPA and water which is required after polishing before applying Reflex?
 
Any kind of paint prep spray will be fine. I know some coating installers who are retentive enough will use a body shop prep solution.
 
Keep in mind that N914 had NO lube in it

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
I find n914 to be quite lubricating? What do you mean by it has no lube in it?
 
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