Steps for Least Aggressive Method

jgg85234

jgg85234

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Hi Mike:

I've tried on a few occasions to ask the "how to" question in other sections of the forum, and have generally received generic copies of your "use the least aggressive method", rather than any specific help.

Don't need to do anything to my cars at the moment, but I'd like to know, and I think it would help a beginner with the right way to select pads and polishes, rather than just buying them all.

Let's assume a Flex 3401.

Most people (me included) start out with a kit that includes LC CCS pads, so we'll stay with those, although I'm sure this conversation will expand to other pads.

If I choose Meguiar's 105/205 combo, I only have a compound and a polish.

So, let's look at the Menzerna products instead.

Assuming that I have a full set of pads and a full set of polishes, how would you move towards more aggressiveness?

Menzerna 4500, 4000, 3000,2500, 1500, 1000, 400.

LC CCS pads yellow, orange, white, green, black. Left out the wax/sealant application pads, as they aren't germane to this question.

If I start with 4500 and a black pad, and I don't get the results I need, where do I go next?

4500 with green, followed by white, orange, yellow?

Or, do I just step up the polish? Stay with the black pad and go to 4000, 3000, 2500, 1500, 1000, 400 until I get the desired result?

Or, is there a certain point in the polishes where I should definitely also step up the pad?

In general, how do I navigate a path through the maze of least to most aggressiveness within a matrix of pads and polishes?

If I were trying to decide which products to purchase, it would help a lot to know which ones to focus on.

Jim
 
Personally, a lot of it comes from experience... Assuming the vehicle in question has typical swirls and scratches, I generally start with a light/medium polish (ie M205) and a polishing pad (ie LC white pad) unless prior knowledge indicates that I might be working with excessively hard or soft paint, in which case I may start with something a little more/less aggressive. If I do not see the results I am hoping for with the polish/polishing pad combo, I adjust accordingly based on "how close" I was to getting it right with my first test. If I removed very little defects and know I need much more cutting power, then I would most likely step it up to a compound and cutting pad... if I removed 80% of the defects and just wanted to take it a bit further, I would probably just step up to a light cutting pad with the original polish (ie LC orange flat pad & M205 or PF2500).

If I see that I have to use a product that is so aggressive that it leaves behind micro marring, I will then proceed to do a test with various finishing combos (ie SF4000/4500 with black/blue/crimson LC flat pads or M205 with a finishing pad) to see what finishes out the best.

It is not an exact science, and you can spend a fair amount of time doing test spots if you are working with finicky paint.

You made it seem like the M105/M205 combo is limiting because you simply have a "compound and a polish", however if you have a complete set of pads, you can achieve all sorts of levels of cut with just these 2 products. They are extremely effective!
 
jgg85234 said:
Hi Mike:

I've tried on a few occasions to ask the "how to" question in other sections of the forum, and have generally received generic copies of your "use the least aggressive method", rather than any specific help.
Click to expand...


The philosophy of using the least aggressive approach is a safe approach but it can be balance with common sense. By this I mean if the defects are serious/deep and everywhere, then no need starting out with a ultra fine, or fine cut polish on a polishing pad.



jgg85234 said:
So, let's look at the Menzerna products instead.

Assuming that I have a full set of pads and a full set of polishes, how would you move towards more aggressiveness?

Menzerna 4500, 4000, 3000,2500, 1500, 1000, 400.

LC CCS pads yellow, orange, white, green, black. Left out the wax/sealant application pads, as they aren't germane to this question.

If I start with 4500 and a black pad, and I don't get the results I need, where do I go next?

4500 with green, followed by white, orange, yellow?

Or, do I just step up the polish? Stay with the black pad and go to 4000, 3000, 2500, 1500, 1000, 400 until I get the desired result?
Click to expand...

The above last option...

Menzerna SI 1500 is what I classify as a Medium Cut Polish that also finishes down very nice, for some people, even LSP ready. Used with a quality foam polishing pad or even foam cutting pad, it will remove all but the deep RIDS.

This is a good approach for a daily driver and figure that any scratches that are not removed are the kind that you might want to just learn to live with if the car in question is in fact a "Daily Driver".

If the car's finish is more important to you to try to remove more of the deeper defects, then break out the FG 400 and either the yellow or orange cutting pads and go to town on her...



jgg85234 said:
In general, how do I navigate a path through the maze of least to most aggressiveness within a matrix of pads and polishes?

If I were trying to decide which products to purchase, it would help a lot to know which ones to focus on.

Jim
Click to expand...


Great questions Jim and important questions too because there are a lot of choices and you need to balance your choices with both your budget and your car care goals.


I would start by deciding what your goal for the paint is? Do you want as close to a show car finish as possible AND are you then going to take care of the results. That is washing carefully, regular maintenance, etc.


If the above describes you, then a good list would look like this,

FG 400
SI 1500
SF 4000

With the above three products you can tackle pretty much anything in your driveway.

For others that will read this into the future, here's the actual product part numbers, names and links to the AG store...

Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers


Menzerna has introduced all new labels and product names for identifying their products. I know it's easy to stick with what you know and change can be hard but the new product names and identifying numbers are here to stay so might as well make the switch when talking and typing about them..



NewMenzernaLabels001.jpg




No label change at this time for,
 
Just to note...

One of the chapters at the beginning of my how-to book talks about determining your goals for your car's finish because it's the end-result or goal for your car's finish that determines,

1. How many steps you do.

2. Which types of pads and products you use.
​

I go over this in all my detailing classes too... always have...


:)
 
zmcgovern45 said:
Personally, a lot of it comes from experience... Assuming the vehicle in question has typical swirls and scratches, I generally start with a light/medium polish (ie M205) and a polishing pad (ie LC white pad) unless prior knowledge indicates that I might be working with excessively hard or soft paint, in which case I may start with something a little more/less aggressive. If I do not see the results I am hoping for with the polish/polishing pad combo, I adjust accordingly based on "how close" I was to getting it right with my first test. If I removed very little defects and know I need much more cutting power, then I would most likely step it up to a compound and cutting pad... if I removed 80% of the defects and just wanted to take it a bit further, I would probably just step up to a light cutting pad with the original polish (ie LC orange flat pad & M205 or PF2500).

If I see that I have to use a product that is so aggressive that it leaves behind micro marring, I will then proceed to do a test with various finishing combos (ie SF4000/4500 with black/blue/crimson LC flat pads or M205 with a finishing pad) to see what finishes out the best.

It is not an exact science, and you can spend a fair amount of time doing test spots if you are working with finicky paint.

You made it seem like the M105/M205 combo is limiting because you simply have a "compound and a polish", however if you have a complete set of pads, you can achieve all sorts of levels of cut with just these 2 products. They are extremely effective!
Click to expand...

This answered a lot of my un-asked questions. Thanks a lot!
 
zmcgovern45 said:
You made it seem like the M105/M205 combo is limiting because you simply have a "compound and a polish", however if you have a complete set of pads, you can achieve all sorts of levels of cut with just these 2 products. They are extremely effective!
Click to expand...

I understand that. I was just trying to make the question a little more complex :xyxthumbs:

If I have the Meguiar's twosome, I would definitely buy more (different) pads.

Likewise, if I only had 1 or 2 pads, I'd want to have all of the polishes to ramp the aggressivenes up and down.

Someone just starting out is overwhelmed by the choices.

Should I buy 3 different pads, 2 different polishes/compounds? Or 5 pads and 5 polishes/compounds? Or, 1 pad and all of the polishes? Or, all the pads and 1 or 2 different polishes?

Personally, after reading everything I could find earlier in the year, I selected SI500 (Super Intensive Polish) with a white pad, and used an orange pad in a few areas. Then, I used SF4500 with black pads to finish up.

I'm just trying to figure out if we could help a newcomer with a pattern such as
Try SF4500 with black. If that's not enough, try the SF4500 with a white pad.

Or, stick to the black pads, and kick up the polishes.

If I had a limited budget, it would help me with what choices to make in my purchases.

For instance, if I had Meg's 105 and 205 (or 101 and 205), and I only had white and yellow pads, going from 205 to 105 is a major upgrade in cutting ability on either pad. But, it might be far more than I actually needed to do. Since preserving the CC for the service life of the vehicle is important, the least aggressiveness I can apply will give me the longest life for the clear coat. Pads and polishes are inexpensive compared to having to repaint a car.

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I would start by deciding what your goal for the paint is? Do you want as close to a show car finish as possible AND are you then going to take care of the results. That is washing carefully, regular maintenance, etc.


If the above describes you, then a good list would look like this,

FG 400
SI 1500
SF 4000

With the above three products you can tackle pretty much anything in your driveway.
Click to expand...

Ok, which pads to go with each of them?

Jim

PS - buying the book/DVD is a perfectly acceptable answer. So is attend one of my detailing classes. I just see so many posters starting from the same fog that I did, and perhaps your publications are the best answer, and we should all point newcomers in that direction more frequently than we do.
 
Last edited:
jgg85234 said:
Ok, which pads to go with each of them?

Jim
Click to expand...

Good question and you can vary your choice of pad to affect the total aggressiveness or non-aggressiveness of the product/process, as I explain in this article,

Factors that affect how aggressive or non-aggressive a product is


FG 400 --> Cutting or polishing pad.
SI 1500 --> Cutting or polishing pad.
SF 4000 --> Soft foam finishing, waxing, or even jewelling pad.



This info is also in my how-to book... lots of good info in the how-to book.
Factors that affect how aggressive or non-aggressive a product is


Actually have never seen a detailing how-to book with more information. Not bragging, just stating my experience after years of being in this industry.

Have this article too...

"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up." -Dizzy Dean


:D




jgg85234 said:
PS - buying the book/DVD is a perfectly acceptable answer. So is attend one of my detailing classes.

I just see so many posters starting from the same fog that I did, and perhaps your publications are the best answer, and we should all point newcomers in that direction more frequently than we do.
Click to expand...


All your questions are great Jim...

I started posting how-to detail car information as far back as 1994 on Usenet Newsgroups, long before the forum software you're typing on was ever invented. I never had a book to sell back then and answered questions to the best of my ability back then as I do today regardless of whether someone buys my book or attends my class. It's my nature to do two things...

  1. Make cars shiny
  2. Show others how to make cars shiny
I've always walked the walk... makes it real easy to type "how-to" information when you've actually done the thing you're talking about... a lot....

It's all good buddy...


:dblthumb2:
 
oooooooooo I'm glad I stumbled on this thread :xyxthumbs:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I started posting how-to detail car information as far back as 1994 on Usenet Newsgroups, long before the forum software you're typing on was ever invented. I never had a book to sell back then and answered questions to the best of my ability back then as I do today regardless of whether someone buys my book or attends my class. It's my nature to do two things...

  1. Make cars shiny
  2. Show others how to make cars shiny
I've always walked the walk... makes it real easy to type "how-to" information when you've actually done the thing you're talking about... a lot....

It's all good buddy...


:dblthumb2:
Click to expand...


Usenet? We could have lost everyone and everything on Earth in alt.*

My time was mostly in alt.comp. And, I used Archie, Gopher and WAIS to search among the pickings on the Internet.

Compuserve was the easiest place to actually find things, as most vendors had a presence there or on Delphi.

Then, the www software got published, and the world hasn't ever been the same.

At least, I really like this forum because it has a lot of people who actually perform a task (detailing) rather than surfing the web.

In the "good old days" people actually worked at their craft. Now, no matter where I go, everyone is staring at a computer screen.

I guess it's always been that way. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s people who were active were out doing things. Those who didn't do, stayed home and watched TV.

Now, everyone is surrounded by technology, no matter what they are doing. I have a hard time believing that the overall result is an increase in productivity.

Even my wife bitches about all the technology, and then remembers that I had a hand in creating some of it. Then she either gets quiet, or blames me for the mess the world is in:laughing:

Jim
 
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