Swirls and Marks after wet-sanding car

[spikepaga]

Hello everyone!!

My dark British racing green Jaguar was stripped to bare metal, repainted and send of for wet-sanding. The day after picking up the car from the detail shop where the car was wet-sanded, I noticed that A) the wet-sanding must have been really light because I can see some orange peel type reflections from some angles and what's worse B) the car was full of buffer holograms and swirls......I took it back and the detailers answer to the problem was to use wax !!! ...,went back home, got my Porter Cable XP out, used a orange pad with Wolfgang swirl remover and followed it with some Zymol carbon and that helped with some of the most glairing and obnoxious swirls, but not all.

My questions are:

1-Should I have the car wet sanded again?........since I lost all confidence in the detailer, I even thought he never had sanded the car at all and had just grinded the orange peel of with his buffer and kept the 1.5k , but I can see some sanding marks here and there....


2-what else can I use with my PC XP to remove more swirls?

(And no I am not going back to this guy to fix his mess. If he thinks its ok to return a car with holograms and then covering it up with wax, I don't want him near my car)

Any help will be greatly appreciated

 

[Davidle1787]

From my basic knowledge of wet sanding and compounding via rotary and da (both pc and gg6), I believe if you are still having problems with an orange pad and wg swirl remover, you might want to step it up with a wg compound or meguiars m105, more aggressive compound same pad, that should help the swirls. Speaking about wet sanding, I would use nothing lower than 1200 grit safely, since I don't know the conditions of the clear coat until you level out the clear coat.

Wet sand first, accomplish the results you want from the clear coat and begin compounding to clear up the sanding and bring back the luster.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

My questions are:

1-Should I have the car wet sanded again?........since I lost all confidence in the detailer, I even thought he never had sanded the car at all and had just grinded the orange peel of with his buffer and kept the 1.5k , but I can see some sanding marks here and there....

I would say "no".

Do you know how much paint the painter sprayed? As in how many coats? Thicker is better if you're going to wetsand. Keep in mind, sanding, compounding, polising and even final polishing all remove a little paint.

If you can still see orange peel you're probably okay as this is a sign they didn't get the paint flat and thus didn't remove too much paint.

If you're going to have someone re-sand though, find out what they use and what their approach is.

2-what else can I use with my PC XP to remove more swirls?

THe most aggressive product I know of that works well with a orbital polisher like the PC is the new Meguiar's M101 Foam Cut Compound. This with either a microfiber pad or a foam cutting pad should remove the swirls.

How difficult it is to reove swirls depends upon,

• Paint hardness
• Depth of swirls

How deep the swirls are depends upon,

• What type of abrasive technology was used in the compound
• How hard the caveman detailer pushed down on the rotary buffer while compounding

Did you see any tracers?

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring

(And no I am not going back to this guy to fix his mess. If he thinks its ok to return a car with holograms and then covering it up with wax, I don't want him near my car)

Any help will be greatly appreciated

Today I'll be wrapping up a complete wetsand, cut and buff that we shot a time-lapse video of, it will be uploaded to YouTube after it's completed. It shows the complete process to correctly sand and buff a new paint job for a swirl-free finish wihtout any sign of sanding marks.


Time-Lapse Video: Wetsand, Cut and Buff 1964 Malibu


Throughout this video I show the complete process also...


Video: Helping in the Heartland - Part 1 The Transformation

 

[spikepaga]

If you can still see orange peel you're probably okay as this is a sign they didn't get the paint flat and thus didn't remove too much paint.

Well, I can only see the orange peel at angles, where before it was really obvious. I would like the same reflection I get when I am staring directly at a panel when I am looking at in from an angle

THe most aggressive product I know of that works well with a orbital polisher like the PC is the new Meguiar's M101 Foam Cut Compound.

Thanks for this, it's always good to have, specially considering both the XJS in question and my E type are both British Racing Green and show swirls if you just look at them

How hard the caveman detailer pushed down on the rotary buffer while compounding..... Did you see any tracers?

Yes. All over. Also, I do know that the painter put extra coats if clear since he knew I was going to wet-sand the car .

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

The next step is up to you...

Remove more orange peel or remove the swirls from the last guy that worked on your car's paint.


Finding people that are up to date with the best and newest tools for wetsanding locally can be a little hard unless they hang out on forums like this one where it's talked about and the tools are shared.

 

[spikepaga]

Mike thanks for your help.

I found a detail shop that does much higher end cars than mine like Rolls and Lambos.

He measured my paint and one panel said "800" on the high end, and the lowest said "230" . He said as long as it does not go below "100" it can be sanded, and he can safely do it again.

Does this all sound right?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike thanks for your help.

I found a detail shop that does much higher end cars than mine like Rolls and Lambos.

He measured my paint and one panel said "800" on the high end, and the lowest said "230" . He said as long as it does not go below "100" it can be sanded, and he can safely do it again.

Does this all sound right?

I do all my readings in mils, that's how I started out and it's kind of stayed with me over the years...

Using a unit converter I get,

230 microns = 9.0 mils
800 microns = 31 mils


And according to these measurements I would agree it's probably safe to re-sand.

I'm very careful about wetsanding and compounding other people's paint and I'd rather error on the side of caution than make a mistake. For this reason I like to machine sand over hand sanding wherever I can and I do tend to tape off any edge or raised body line at least for the sanding and compounding step.

If you look real closely at any show car that's been sanded flat you can usually see the orange peel show up as you get closer to a raised body line or edge.

It's not that the paint cannot be sanded right up to the raised body line or edge as it certainly can, it just takes more t-i-m-e to sand, compound and polish close to edges and time costs money. (your money )


If you look at this picture of the car I have out in the studio right now, you'll see I've used 3M Blue Vinyl tape to cover all the edges and raised body lines.

This is called being careful with other people's paint jobs...

I'll have to leave it up to you as to whether or not to let this other company give your car a second try, it sounds like they know what they're doing.

I use both 3M and Meguiar's sanding discs for machine sanding and for the above project I'm finishing out at #5000 grit and then compounding with Meguiar's M100, followed by M205, followed by Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish followed by Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax. (The paint is over 30 days air cure).


The color red pixelates on computer monitors, (at least my monitors), but I think you see what I mean...

One thing for sure, wetsanding and then all the steps that follow it are a lot of work and take time to do right. But when done right the results are worth it for the right cars.

 

[spikepaga]

Mike, your help has been tremendous. The car is getting redone, just the upper half of the sides from the crease up:

So basically the upper 1/2 of both sides. While I am scared that the clear will be thinned out too much, I do think these guys know what they are doing, so hopefully I won't be back here complaining that my clear burned of any time soon

Thanks

 

[spikepaga]

Well here I am, 2 times wet-sanded, lots of $ later still unhappy. Either they where super generous with the clear at the painters or something else is wrong

 

[ShaunD]

If it were me I would be getting some some money back from both detail shops. Where are you located?
What are you not satisfied with this time around?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online

 

[spikepaga]

If it were me I would be getting some some money back from both detail shops. Where are you located?
What are you not satisfied with this time around?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online

Thanks for your reply.

Problem is that THERE IS STILL a lot of orange peel from different angles. I think that the problem is that there is a lot of clear. I will be meeting with the detailed again next week to see what can be done.

 

[ShaunD]

Find out what sanding media and grit he is starting with and what grit he is finishing with. If you start too light you obviously will not remove the orange peel but instead will be more so polishing it. Also, IME this makes it more difficult to cut the orange peel as now you aren't trying to remove the peaks of the hills/orange peel but instead the sides of the hills/orange peel. If the detailer can't name the products that he is using or they aren't in the top tier of abrasive technology/companies then you should request a refund and keep searching for a professional and not rush those process and keep spending money and not being satisfied.
Where are you located?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online

 

[spikepaga]

Find out what sanding media and grit he is starting with and what grit he is finishing with. If you start too light you obviously will not remove the orange peel but instead will be more so polishing it. Also, IME this makes it more difficult to cut the orange peel as now you aren't trying to remove the peaks of the hills/orange peel but instead the sides of the hills/orange peel. If the detailer can't name the products that he is using or they aren't in the top tier of abrasive technology/companies then you should request a refund and keep searching for a professional and not rush those process and keep spending money and not being satisfied.
Where are you located?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online

Thanks for your suggestions. I am in Houston TX

Ill find out next week what he is using

 

[newbdetailer]

The base may have had some texture before the clear was sprayed. Some texture is ok.
How much did this paint job cost?

 

[spikepaga]

The base may have had some texture before the clear was sprayed. Some texture is ok.
How much did this paint job cost?

The paint job cost close to 7k. I have never been so disappointed of anything as much as this paint job. I don't know if I need to keep on paying money to keep on sanding the clear or just have the sides of the car repainted. The car looks terrible to me. How do I know if the problem is the clear or the base?

 

[newbdetailer]

Wow! 7k on paint. I would hope for that amount you should be happy with the outcome. From the picture you posted, it does look great to me. I'm not an expert, but I think if you were to sand the clear and it sands smooth and flat, but you can still see texture after you buff, then it is in the base. Even the most expensive cars have factory texture, its just the nature of the base coat curing that gives it texture.
Also, don't confuse texture with orange peel.

 

[spikepaga]

Well the next step will be to get the sides repainted because I won't keep paying people money something to fix that is not fixable. I wish there was a way to know if my problem is in the clear. Until now I thought orange peel was always in the clear and never in the base. Looking at the car from an angle just makes me want to vomit.

 

[ShaunD]

I would talk this all over with the painter that did the job. If he says it can be fixed then let him fix it or pay to have done at the shop of your choice.
If it has been sanded twice now and still show orange peel/texture then it most likely under the clear.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online

 

[Evan.J]

I'm going to have to say that the texture you are still seeing is from the color coat below the clear. As stated before I would speak to the places that did the wet sanding. Ask what the process was what all was used (sanding media's 1500 grit 2000 grit ect., compounds, poilshes)

 

[spikepaga]

Well, the problem is definitely the texture underneath the clear. The only solution is to repaint the car. Most places thought the car looked "great" . The only place that immediately realized the problem is a custom body shop. They can repaint the sided like I want them for a lot of $. If anyone can recommend a painter in the Houston area please do. Thanks!!