swirls on a white car. pretty hard to remove by hand. need advice

harris24742

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i have a white corolla (thin clear coat and hard to remove cobweb of swirls

here are some pictures
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Gs&usp=sharing

the paint has a cobweb which is prolly pretty hard to remove. i am a noob. i cant use and afford da machine etc. can i use meguiare uc to get rid of the swirls by hand? i have a person who has a rotory. now my clear coat is pretty thin and at some edges, there is no paint due to excessive compounding with low quality compounds. thus, i need to know which compound would help me get rid of the hard cobweb with hand, or would a rotory work without adding holograms and damages. also, do i need to use ultimate polish after the uc? are there some other products which the experts could recommend me? (clear coat safe and hand applicable)

i do have a pinnacle souveran liquid wax to top up aftter i am done with the compound


i will be grateful for your help
 
Since doing it by machine is out of the question, you could try polishing by hand, then use a filling glaze, then a wax.
 
@expdetailing

sir with which product? would meguiar uc work with hand? and do i need ultimate polish after uc? (what does it do 0o)
 
Hi Harris and thank you for taking this from Private Messages to the forum.

I get a lot of people that join the forum and then for whatever reason they send me their questions via a PM when the actual function of a "forum" is to discuss the topics on the forum. So thank you.



i have a white corolla

here are some pictures
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Gs&usp=sharing

the paint has a cobweb which is prolly pretty hard to remove. i am a noob. i cant use and afford da machine etc. can i use meguiare uc to get rid of the swirls by hand?

The answer is "yes".

The technique is as follows.

Besides the normal steps of washing, drying and then removing any surface contamination using detailing clay here's what you want to do...

1. ONLY works a small section at a time. When working by hand, because modern paints tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints, you can really only functionally work a small section and remove the swirls.

How small?

About a foot squared. Yes that's right. A small section. If you try to rub to large of a section you and your hand will simply not have enough power to REMOVE ENOUGH PAINT to level the surface and thus remove the swirls.

Make sense?

You can try to work a larger section by hand but do so and then inspect in good light like overhead bright sunshine and make sure you're getting the swirls out to your satisfaction. If not then shrink your work areas size back down to a smaller size.

I used to teach the techniques for remove swirls by hand when I taught all the Detailing 101 classes for Meguiars. I completely have the technique down and I'm here to tell you it's a lot of work.

When you rub the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound over the paint you rub hard and fast at least to start with and this will be for about a minute.

Then you reduce your firm downward pressure and rub more gently. Why?

Because rubbing out paint is an art form not a grinding process.

So start out firm and fast and then finish that section out with about half as much downward pressure but still a rapid hand movement.

I remove swirls and scratches by hand using a straight line motion just because it's easier to rub hard and fast in two directions than it is to rub hard and fast in circles.

To give the Ultimate Compound more bite use a microfiber applicator pad. Meguiar's sells a large round white one, this will work great. ANY FIBER pad will help you to remove swirls faster than a foam pad. The fibers themselves can leave a type of marring scratch too so be careful.

For people that want to work by hand and reach show car results I usually have them,

Rub the paint first with the UC and a microfiber pad
Rub the paint out a second time using the UC or the UP with a FOAM pad
Seal the paint with a wax

Here's the best picture I have to try to give you and idea of what your hand should look like when trying to remove scratches by hand...

In the below pictures I'm removing wet sanding scratches out of the hood of a 1970 El Camino. My hand is pressing down hard and I'm moving it at the speed of light.

RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand01.jpg


RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand02.jpg



Anyway... that's how you do it. It's a lot harder than most people think and that's why when I wrote my first how-to book the first chapter explain PAINT HISTORY and then then I share the difference between old school paints and modern paints is the HARDNESS factor and that's why everyone now days sooner or later steps up to machine polishing. It's because it's too hard and takes to long to remove swirls and scratches by hand.

Now if you simply want to CLEAN the paint surface before applying a wax that's fast and easy. But cleaning the paint surface and removing swirls OUT of the paint are 2 very different things.

When I taught the hand polishing portion of the Detailing 101 class at Meguiar's I would say,

Watching me work by hand is the best sales tool for getting people to buy a machine.

It was true at Meguiar's and it's just as true today.


And by the way... for a LOT of people, simply cleaning the paint by applying a hand applied paint cleaner is more than enough as their car will look clean and shiny.


i have a person who has a rotary.

My guess is they will burn through the edges and leave holograms in the paint. Just a guess....



now my clear coat is pretty thin and at some edges, there is no paint due to excessive compounding with low quality compounds. thus, i need to know which compound would help me get rid of the hard cobweb with hand, or would a rotary work without adding holograms and damages. also, do i need to use ultimate polish after the uc? are there some other products which the experts could recommend me? (clear coat safe and hand applicable)

Wow! Sounds like your car's paint is a real mess.

How did it get so bad?


i do have a pinnacle Souveran liquid wax to top up after i am done with the compound

Just do the best you can and then apply the wax.



:)
 
@Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

Thankyou very much for such a detailed response and my apologies for not posting this question in the forum section.

Wow! Sounds like your car's paint is a real mess.

How did it get so bad?

actually i live in Pakistan and we do not have educated professionals to maintain and take good care of the car. this is a 10 years old car and has been in the "care" of office drivers who used to get it compounded pretty often which is why the clear coat has become very thin. also, the compounds used were conventional and low in quality.

anyways, so now i should buy uc. i have that wax applicator (red). do you suggest that i should use that to apply uc or should it be the fiber one? (i am worried about the scratches it might put on). also, the micro marring or maybe scratches/swirls caused by the uc due to the hand applications would need removal? what product should i use for that? is meguair ultimate polish suitable? what is it anyway?

i did clay my car today. fortunately it had no contaminants (or maybe i just didn't clay it as it should have been)
 
attn all:

I now own the following products:

a) dodo juice detailers spray
b) clay bar
c) Meguiars Ultimate Compound
d) Meguiars ultimate polish
e) pinnacle souveran liquid wax
f) two hands/arms (with tiny muscles)
g) Microfiber towels
h) foam pad for wax (hands)

Question 1:

With only these things, could one achieve a cobweb/swirl free white car?

question 2:

can the ultimate compound be applied with a microfiber towel instead of a microfiber foam pad?

question 3:

I have tried a small patch (smaller than 1sq foot) with ultimate compound. apparently the cobweb still exists. A very minor difference though. technique adopted was applying a very small quantity of UC and rubbing it with a microfiber towel (much downward pressure and back/forth motion with speed) to produce heat so that abrasives could break down. anyways, it still has swirls. yes i do need a lot of patience and energy.

Help from experts is requested. Please note that I can't use a rotory or a DA. hence, would be only using my hands.

Thankyou
 
attn all:

I now own the following products:

a) dodo juice detailers spray
b) clay bar
c) Meguiars Ultimate Compound
d) Meguiars ultimate polish
e) pinnacle souveran liquid wax
f) two hands/arms (with tiny muscles)
g) Microfiber towels
h) foam pad for wax (hands)

Question 1:

With only these things, could one achieve a cobweb/swirl free white car?

question 2:

can the ultimate compound be applied with a microfiber towel instead of a microfiber foam pad?

question 3:

I have tried a small patch (smaller than 1sq foot) with ultimate compound. apparently the cobweb still exists. A very minor difference though. technique adopted was applying a very small quantity of UC and rubbing it with a microfiber towel (much downward pressure and back/forth motion with speed) to produce heat so that abrasives could break down. anyways, it still has swirls. yes i do need a lot of patience and energy.

Help from experts is requested. Please note that I can't use a rotory or a DA. hence, would be only using my hands.

Thankyou
Harris, since you have done a test section and did not get the required results, it is safe to presume that you will not get a swirl free finish by hand.

So my suggestion is, don't bother with swirl removal. Get a glaze. Poor boys white Diamond would be good since you have a white car. Apply a couple a coats and layer a couple of coats of the wax you have.

You will get good results with minimum effort. Don't forget to clay before you start though.

In short, it is almost impossible to get a swirl free finish with hand polishing. So don't waste your energy over there. The payoff will be very little
 
Did you get any white residue on your applicator when doing your test section? A lot of white Toyotas, especially 10 year old ones were single stage white paint, no clear coat. Not saying yours is, just wondering... If it is single stage (chalky white) you'll be working with titanium dioxide white paint which is so hard I'd think you'd never correct it by hand. Make it look clean and shiny...sure.
 
I was trying to locate a article before that says some cars painted white do not have clear coat due to the pigmentation, can't find but came across this
A MASTER DETAILER DISCUSSES CLEARCOAT FINISHES

here is one: No Clear Coat On Toyota's Painted White? - Appearance - Corolland Forums

thankyou for your response sir.

apparently the hardner is added into the paint and a probably a separate layer of clear coat is not applied. i can confirm this from manufacturer in a couple of days. also, this is a solid paint. i dont know whether solid paints are categorized in the multiple stage paints or not.
 
Did you get any white residue on your applicator when doing your test section? A lot of white Toyotas, especially 10 year old ones were single stage white paint, no clear coat. Not saying yours is, just wondering... If it is single stage (chalky white) you'll be working with titanium dioxide white paint which is so hard I'd think you'd never correct it by hand. Make it look clean and shiny...sure.

thankyou for your response

no sir. no residue as such
 
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