Teflon as an ingredient

[primo spaghetti]

I have the opportunity to get some paint sealant in bulk, and i remember a time when teflon was making a break into detailing products (sealants and dressings), but i havent really heard of it lately.

my question is has anyone had any recent experience with teflon in detailing products...paint sealant especially.

here is the product description; "fortified with Teflon and high quality polymers for longterm protection against road salt and other environmental damage such as oxidation,acid rain, and bird droppings"

 

[2old2change]

Everything I have ever read on any detailing forum claims Teflon products for detailing are "snake oil". Something about the temp that would be required to adhere the teflon to a surface would melt the paint etc. Try a search on any detailing forum and I think you will come to the same conclusionhttp://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/43123-teflon-coating-brand-new-car.html

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Personally I like the taste of teflon...

...but seriously. People like to talk about how if you want teflon to adhere to your surface you have to heat it to 600 degrees or something (like how they put it on frying pans), and how DuPont themselves stated some years ago that teflon was of no value in car waxes. Of course, Optimum Instant Detailer uses fluoropolymers (which teflon is). So, clear as mud, right?

 

[primo spaghetti]

Personally I like the taste of teflon...

...but seriously. People like to talk about how if you want teflon to adhere to your surface you have to heat it to 600 degrees or something (like how they put it on frying pans), and how DuPont themselves stated some years ago that teflon was of no value in car waxes. Of course, Optimum Instant Detailer uses fluoropolymers (which teflon is). So, clear as mud, right?

well that is exactly why i asked to be honest....fluoropolymers are pretty common...at least it think they are in detailing products...

so i guess im wondering if teflon getting a bad rap, or if fluoropolymers are simply related to or very close make up to teflon....and there is actually a difference between them both...

 

[Setec Astronomy]

well that is exactly why i asked to be honest....fluoropolymers are pretty common...at least it think they are in detailing products...

I think you are thinking of silicones. Fluoropolymers are very expensive, generally speaking.

 

[ihaveacamaro]

Everything I have ever read on any detailing forum claims Teflon products for detailing are "snake oil". Something about the temp that would be required to adhere the teflon to a surface would melt the paint etc. Try a search on any detailing forum and I think you will come to the same conclusionhttp://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/43123-teflon-coating-brand-new-car.html

Personally I like the taste of teflon...

...but seriously. People like to talk about how if you want teflon to adhere to your surface you have to heat it to 600 degrees or something (like how they put it on frying pans), and how DuPont themselves stated some years ago that teflon was of no value in car waxes. Of course, Optimum Instant Detailer uses fluoropolymers (which teflon is). So, clear as mud, right?

Unrelated but now I know why I always got you two guys confused. It's your avatars! They're like two sides of the same coin... didn't notice it until you posted one after another.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Unrelated but now I know why I always got you two guys confused. It's your avatars! They're like two sides of the same coin... didn't notice it until you posted one after another.

It was a thread where people were posting vintage car products, and Mike Phillps took the pictures of that can and made avatars and offered them up to the forum.

 

[RMM]

There are, at least, two waxes on the market that have PTFE (Teflon): Swissvax Shield and Raceglaze 4x4.

 

[PiPUK]

This is a recurring topic. First I would put across my understanding on Teflon as a word. 'Teflon' is a registered trademark. To use the term in marketing literature, an individual or company requires the permission of the Dupont company. Dupont do not tend to permit this, as a general rule. In fact, as a general rule, Dupont tend to initiate legal action against those using the term. Were you to communicate with Dupont, I suspect it would be a very short time until the majority of those claiming to use 'Teflon' would cease. I cannot be absolutely certain but this very likely includes Swissvax and Raceglaze - They probably are just not big enough to have hit the legal radar at Dupont. In practice, the term to use is 'PTFE' - the technical name.

Now, ignoring that, what is the science. Can you have PTFE in automotive products?

Yes!


How can this be when PTFE needs high temperatures to be applied?

PTFE isn't applied from a block of PTFE. It tends to be pre-processed to make it usable. PTFE is very common in printing applications, flexographics and the likes - by the same argument, these would melt as well and hence you get dispersions of PTFE particles (micron sized) which are used and do not require heat.


What about fluoropolymers?

PTFE is a fluoropolymer. Fluoropolymers are not necessarily PTFE. It is a bit like washing up liquid and detergent - washing up liquid is a detergent but all detergents are not washing up liquids. Fluoropolymers as a general group are extremely common. Several products marketed to the automotive sector as high end sealants are fluoropolymer based, glass sealants in particular are extremely easy to formulate with fluoro polymers hybridised to silicon centred molecules. Easy clean, chemical, coatings, likewise tend to be fluoropolymers.

Like PTFE, most fluoropolymers pertinent to coatings would need high temperatures for application. This is why a lot of fluoropolymer coatings are formed through intermediates - they do not start life as fluoropolymers, rather sub units which subsequently react, crosslink and yield the polymer. It is just clever chemistry!

Hope that helps a little bit.

 

[primo spaghetti]

This is a recurring topic. First I would put across my understanding on Teflon as a word. 'Teflon' is a registered trademark. To use the term in marketing literature, an individual or company requires the permission of the Dupont company. Dupont do not tend to permit this, as a general rule. In fact, as a general rule, Dupont tend to initiate legal action against those using the term. Were you to communicate with Dupont, I suspect it would be a very short time until the majority of those claiming to use 'Teflon' would cease. I cannot be absolutely certain but this very likely includes Swissvax and Raceglaze - They probably are just not big enough to have hit the legal radar at Dupont. In practice, the term to use is 'PTFE' - the technical name.

Now, ignoring that, what is the science. Can you have PTFE in automotive products?

Yes!


How can this be when PTFE needs high temperatures to be applied?

PTFE isn't applied from a block of PTFE. It tends to be pre-processed to make it usable. PTFE is very common in printing applications, flexographics and the likes - by the same argument, these would melt as well and hence you get dispersions of PTFE particles (micron sized) which are used and do not require heat.


What about fluoropolymers?

PTFE is a fluoropolymer. Fluoropolymers are not necessarily PTFE. It is a bit like washing up liquid and detergent - washing up liquid is a detergent but all detergents are not washing up liquids. Fluoropolymers as a general group are extremely common. Several products marketed to the automotive sector as high end sealants are fluoropolymer based, glass sealants in particular are extremely easy to formulate with fluoro polymers hybridised to silicon centred molecules. Easy clean, chemical, coatings, likewise tend to be fluoropolymers.

Like PTFE, most fluoropolymers pertinent to coatings would need high temperatures for application. This is why a lot of fluoropolymer coatings are formed through intermediates - they do not start life as fluoropolymers, rather sub units which subsequently react, crosslink and yield the polymer. It is just clever chemistry!

Hope that helps a little bit.

well said mr megane...

i appreciate all the help everyone has given me.

 

[Dogfather]

Gliptone sells a paint sealant containing Dupont's Zonyl, formerly known as Teflon.(sort of like Prince)