The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare! Sticky Paint

J Z06

J Z06

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The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare! Sticky Paint



It just so happens that this is My Mom's car. It's a dark charcoal 2014 Subaru Forester. It came home from the dealer(bought used, pretty sure a few panels had re-paints) LOADED with holograms, swirls and scratches. It's been a while since I'd done it.2017 was the last time,it was horrific! so labor intensive!
I remember the last time I did it, TSR, or whatever I used was brutal to remove. Only IPA/Panel wipe removed what I was correcting cleanly. The car did receive a complete de-con with iron x...so that end is covered.

Fast forward to the present day. Doing a job on the outside(My Nephews are very tough and have added some new scratches to the paint). I washed and clayed the car along with using iron x on the paint. It's clean and de-con'd. I tried a test on the hood (2'X2') with:

Cyclo/Green Pad using M205(this thing needs some serious cutting...though I figured I would try the least aggressive method first) Didn't do a whole lot....VERY challenging removing the product. I primed the pad, did six passes and used a quick detail spray to the pad prior to buffing with a little pressure. Unsatisfactory results....didn't do very much to remove the defects(water spotting/oxidation)

FLEX 3401 orange ccs 6.5" pad with TSR. Primed pad, spritzed one time with quick detailer. 6 section passes. Not all that impressed with what that did.

M105 old school makita rotary(absolutely murder to remove without panel wipe/ipa) decent result, LOTS of trailing marks/swirls/haze. I used a wool pad for this test.

I figured, to get rid of the haze/holograms, why not use the cyclo again? Orange pads, TSR, primed pad, one shot of detail spray on the pad....six section passes. The product was like cement to remove. Only IPA/panel wipe cleans it off.

WTH is with this paint?

I've detailed so many cars and have never experienced this. The garage has two, eight foot LED lights(just installed yesterday morning) I also use two LED husky lights (10,000 lumens) and there is still some sort of hologram/haze on the paint when these lights shine on it. I've never had such a time doing this...it's discouraging. I am hoping to find out what is going on and get the paint to shine as it should.

Thanks for any help/tips You can give Me. I honestly wish I lived in Florida so I could have You see this car. I've been watching YouTube vids like mad and ordered a LOT of stuff not only to solve this issue, to try a few things next time with different cars.

Thank You!

Jay



:)
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

So the reason it's super hard to wipe anything off is because the clearcoat is heavily damaged, a lot of the clear have become very old. I don't know if you have microfiber cutting pads, but load that up (I mean like.. do two circles around the pad) with your D/A with M105 and then just mow down the paint bit by bit. Removing the old clear is all you're trying to do, not to correct. Unfortunately, after each section you cut, you need to find a way to clean up that pad. Compressed air or pad brush, something to make the fibers stick up again. Then, repeat. The issue here is basically the clearcoat is old and gumming up your pad. You may need to mow down each panel a few times unfortunately.
My suggestion on the steps. Feel free to use your rotary for this with your wool pad if you can keep your wool pad clean.

Load up the pad with M105, then do one pass, then see if you can wipe off the M105 easier. If not, do another pass, then see if you can wipe it off easier at that point. Don't add anymore product. You may have to clean your pad after each pass just because it's getting gummed up with old clear and product. Instead of detail spray, spray some water onto the panel with the polish residue still on there, and do another pass. The water will re-emulsify the polishing lubricants and the abrasives. This is the only thing I can think of.
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

So,that's what is going on? this has been making Me insane! Never experienced anything like this! Thanks for the reply! Sounds like there is a ton of work to do!! I placed an order for some mf pads. I haven't tried them yet...should be fun to try them out!
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Basically, what is going on is that the first section of clearcoat that you would be removing has dried up and when you polish/compound, it's mixing in with the leveling liquid on your pad and gumming it up. So then when you're trying to finish the paint off, you're scouring the paint with microscopic levels of clearcoat. This is one of the worst things I've ever encountered. Kevin Brown (look up Buffdaddy) is an expert on residue control and this is the worst of residue control needed. At this point, you're trying to remove the dead layers of clear before you can actually polish. Remember to load up the microfiber pad with M105. You want to do this wet so that there's enough liquid that the clearcoat you remove won't gum it up. That's why it's so hard to remove the residue on the paint afterwards, it's a mixture of dead clearcoat, abrasives, and dried up polishing oils that's been overloaded that's causing the issue.
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Oh,this sounds like I will be working overtime on this car. Thanks so much for the information! how long is the shelf life of 105/205? mine are old! Thanks!
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Maybe try a less aggressive approach. If you are new to 105, its a good product that works well, but can cause its own set of issues.

Subaru paint is fairly soft. I would try some 210 in the maguires line with a medium cut pad, like orange lc pads, lots of med speed passes (8) on speed 5 of your 3401. It should cut good, not leave much residue, and can finish well. You do need lots of pads. Change them at least once per panel, two or more on hood.
Good luck, we've all had those puzzlers. youll get it figured out and when you do you'll say damn, I knew I should tried that! Ask me how I know!
 
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Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Thanks very much! I will pick up some 210 and try that! I don' feel as lost as helpful info is coming in! thank you! pretty sure orange pads are well stocked! if not, they'll be ordered! This is a terrific forum! lots of great folks! much appreciated!
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Here's the car in question....

J Z06 said:
2014 Subaru Forester.
Click to expand...


Lots of great stuff cut out.

Here's the meat....


J Z06 said:
The product was like cement to remove.


Only IPA/panel wipe cleans it off. WTH is with this paint?
Click to expand...


I "think" this is what they call,

Sticky Paint

Reach out to Jason Rose at RUPES and maybe he can verify? Whatever you find out, I've subscribed to this thread to see your follow-up.

Me?

I can't remember ever detailing a Subaru? Wracking the brain right now and drawing a blank.

I'm huge fan of the Subaru Brat, may they rest in peace, but don't think I've ever detailed any Subaru.


J Z06 said:
Thanks for any help/tips You can give Me.

I honestly wish I lived in Florida so I could have You see this car. I've been watching YouTube vids like mad and ordered a LOT of stuff not only to solve this issue, to try a few things next time with different cars.

Thank You!

Jay
Click to expand...


Here's my suggestion. STOP with all the products you've used so far.

I'll send you a bottle of BLACKFIRE One Step. Machine apply using an ORBITAL (any type any brand), and a foam pad. Allow the product to fully dry and then wipe-off. I'm fairly confident, even on sticky paint, this product will wipe-off.


AND - if you find out this Subaru does in fact have a known history of having Sticky Paint - next time someone wants you to detail one, stick with the BF One Step or RUN!


PM me your shipping address.

:)
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Very cool!! thanks! I am off this week and was about to hunt down some m201...watching a ton of videos as well on 3done,sonax perfect finish(order on the way) . Never tried blackfire stuff, I will gladly give it a go! thanks!! this vehicle is being traded..so I am trying to make it look as good as it can for higher trade in value! definitely never want to see it again! it's a bear!! will keep everyone updated with my findings! thanks again! Mike,pm inbound!
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Mike,
Thanks so much! The bottle arrived today! Tomorrow,it's go time! So many RIDS! I would bet they'd come right out by someone with experience wet-sanding. That's certainly not Me! I simply want to finish it up and get it out of here so it can be traded. Have a good night!
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Mike Phillips said:
if you find out this Subaru does in fact have a known history of having Sticky Paint - next time someone wants you to detail one, stick with the BF One Step or RUN!
Click to expand...

As a Subaru owner and my first time trying BF One Step on my Subaru Outback I was amazed. Thank you Mike!
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

J Z06 said:
Mike,

Thanks so much! The bottle arrived today!

Tomorrow,it's go time!
Click to expand...

Good to hear. :xyxthumbs:


J Z06 said:
So many RIDS! I would bet they'd come right out by someone with experience wet-sanding. That's certainly not Me!
Click to expand...

Not me either. When buffing out the factory paint on a daily driver - when using an AIO - you will normally do 8 to 12 section passes with whatever polisher you have and either a foam "polishing" or foam "cutting" pad and that's it. Whatever you remove is great. Whatever remains behind - you live with it.


J Z06 said:
I simply want to finish it up and get it out of here so it can be traded.
Click to expand...

I'm going to hedge my bets and assume you're going to love it.

Remember - apply and let dry. I buff out ENTIRE cars and wait until I'm completely done and then wipe the was off. It wipes off that easy.

PLUS - with this technique - it's very easy to see where you've buffed and where you still need to buff.


:buffing:
 
Re: The Car From Hell! 2014 Subaru Forester nightmare

Mike Phillips said:
if you find out this Subaru does in fact have a known history of having Sticky Paint - next time someone wants you to detail one, stick with the BF One Step or RUN!
Click to expand...



boomerman said:
As a Subaru owner and my first time trying BF One Step on my Subaru Outback I was amazed.

Thank you Mike!
Click to expand...


Thank you for chiming in and adding your experience. I'm 100% absolutely confident that moving forward, anytime someone goes to Skynet and searches for,

STICKY PAINT

This thread will slowly but surely start to rise to the top of teh search results and this thread will help others.


:dblthumb2:
 
It continues and will retain the title of "the car from hell" .
I grabbed an orange 6.5" ccs brand new pad, put it on the beast 3401,primed the pad and did half the hood. 10 passes. The usual, a bit of dust and some white stuff came off the pad. I let that sit/let it dry,
..went to the grocery store with My Acura. Just got back,wiped a spot with a mf towel,it was like I didn't do anything. I couldn't wipe anything off.
Grabbed panel wipe, all gone. Again, never seen anything like this. It is going to be an arduous day! I tried!!
 
J Z06 said:
It continues and will retain the title of "the car from hell" .

I grabbed an orange 6.5" ccs brand new pad, put it on the beast 3401,primed the pad and did half the hood. 10 passes. The usual, a bit of dust and some white stuff came off the pad. I let that sit/let it dry,

..went to the grocery store with My Acura. Just got back,wiped a spot with a mf towel,it was like I didn't do anything. I couldn't wipe anything off.

Grabbed panel wipe, all gone. Again, never seen anything like this. It is going to be an arduous day!

I tried!!
Click to expand...

And that was using the BLACKFIRE One Step?


I've never experienced anything like this. If the BF One Step wipes off hard, my guess is everything will wipe-off hard and I think that's been your experience so far.

That must be some really crappy paint.

NO car manufacturer should be building and selling cars the AVERAGE PERSON cannot easily work on with basic products.

It shouldn't take a degree in Shinology and unique or special products to take care of a daily driver.


:dunno:
 
Try this,

Hand apply a thin coat of the BF One Step to a section of paint you've correct, so it's already clean and smooth.

Allow it to dry for 5-10 minutes and then test wipe-off.

Also - do you have a simple polisher like a PC?


:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
And that was using the BLACKFIRE One Step?


I've never experienced anything like this. If the BF One Step wipes off hard, my guess is everything will wipe-off hard and I think that's been your experience so far.

That must be some really crappy paint.

NO car manufacturer should be building and selling cars the AVERAGE PERSON cannot easily work on with basic products.

It shouldn't take a degree in Shinology and unique or special products to take care of a daily driver.


:dunno:
Click to expand...
Yup! It was good to talk with You! I haven't experienced this before either. Plan B, Dad's car/Cyclo/green pad, nickel sized drop on a small section is drying at the moment! I am hoping for good results. Stay tuned. THANKS so much for Your help!!! We shall see what will become of the car from hell! LOL!!
 
Mike Phillips said:
Try this,

Hand apply a thin coat of the BF One Step to a section of paint you've correct, so it's already clean and smooth.

Allow it to dry for 5-10 minutes and then test wipe-off.

Also - do you have a simple polisher like a PC?


:)
Click to expand...

I did that last night. ZERO issues...deeper gloss for sure. I may have to do this thing by hand...we'll see how it goes after the results of My Dad's car are through.
 
I had a similar situation on a repaint car with single stage black paint. Micro Marring to a haze and the residue was glued to the surface when using a Porter Cable. Switched to Sonax EX 04-06 with lots of product on the pad, 15mm orbit Flex cordless free spin polisher, smaller working section, less section passes, and the result looked like a mirror. Residue control was key as WillSports3 said above. I don't recall the exact pad I used.


I picked up on 3401 and doing half a Forester hood with 10 passes, that's a large area with lots of passes with lots of residue buildup.
  • 3401 works fast-> more residue.
  • Large section -> more residue.
  • More passes -> more residue.



The steps being done with a 3401 make quick work of a normal car but may be generating too much residue for this one. I'm curious to see the results of the hand applied BF One step. Less reside buildup by hand.
 
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