The Chemistry of Detailing

[JonMiles]

The Chemistry of Car Detailing(this only the start of my research and includes only AP cleaner and Clay)
My research will continue over the next 3 weeks and I will continue to add to this forum.

Car Detailing is a complex process that involves mechanical and chemical engineering in order to clean, restore and protect various surfaces of a motor vehicle. The use of organic compounds, water soluble substrates, polymers, and
inorganic methods contribute to the effectiveness of chemicals in safely decontaminating, modifying, and sealing
various surfaces. This article will cover the chemicals involved in All-purpose cleaners, detailer's clay, car wash
shampoos, polishes, polymer sealants, waxes, leather cleaning and conditioning, and solvent and water based
dressings. The chemicals analyzed are generic brands and this research has not violated any laws. No constituent concentrations of products may be released at the request of the manufacturer.

All-purpose cleaners:
An all-purpose cleaner is a water soluble, basic, ion infused cleaning agent. The prime constituents in this
analysis led to a pH of 9.5 after being diluted 1:5 product to distilled water. The standard had a pH of 9.8
therefore the use of a buffer is conclusive. The atomic absorbtion spectroscopy indicated the prescence of Potassium
and Magnesium Hydroxides, and the use of GC mass spectroscopy indicated the absence of organic solvents and the presence of Sodium Dodecyl Sulfate(SDS) as a foaming agent, along with a bi-cyclic organic compound confirmed by
H-nmr and C-nmr. The all-purpose cleaner analyzed was orange in color indicating the use of a dye, and the scent was
a citrus extract as confirmed by the supplier. The use of SDS is to provide a molecular penetration to organic compounds and an encapsulation by ions to allow mechanical removal by use of a towel or brush. All conclusion were verified by the manufacturer for accuracy. The bi-cyclic compound was confirmed as the odorant.

Detailer's Clay:
Detailer's clay is an amorphous solid with blue pigment for the sample used. The detailer's clay shows a hexagonal face centered lattice in x-ray crystalography with a carbonate anion filling the octahedral holes in the lattice. The molecular constituents were confirmed using IR spectroscopy and AA spectroscopy against a standard of CaCO3. The clay was broken down for analysis using 3M sulfuric acid and then neutralized using NaOH to a pH of 6.8. The abrasives are Carbonate based as confirmed by the manufacturer and the amorphous crystal structure allows the amoebic encapsulation of lose particles on the surface of paint. The grit as confirmed by microscopy is approximately 7000 which varies over the surface area due to amorphous structure.

 

[A4 1.8tqm]

I love this stuff! Thanks for doing this research, I can't wait for more! rops:

 

[CEE DOG]

Thanks for the work Jon, looking forward to more

 

[JonMiles]

No problem on doing this research, it is a pain and very expensive but my school is paying for it so it's not too bad. I would really like if Autogeek would send me some samples to "analyze" outside the lab. wink wink. I am really having a hard time figuring out the constituents in leather products because they all seem to be biomolecular due to use on a cell surface. I only have 2 things isolated as of right now (water, and lanolin) I also have calculated that there are at least 22 things in it. ugh!

BTW I learned a cool trick for extending the working time of 105, grab a bottle of corn oil and but a sprayer on it. You can put a really small amount on the pad and it will lubricate better. The cut decreases a little bit, but the working time more than doubles. And IPA will get rid of the oil really well.

 

[JonMiles]

View attachment 5757Another thing, I have successfully synthesized the pigment in ferrari's brilliant red paint. It is iron based. It really looks wild when it is being made, looks blood red at first then it gets lighter as you cool it.

 

[jpegs13]

My brain hurts now.

 

[Shane731]

Well, that went over my head like a pigeon over a freshly detailed car. :detailer:





I don't get it. My brain hurts now. :surrender:

 

[Executive Detail]

Interesting write up.

I think I just went cross-eyed.

 

[BobbyG]

I thought this was about polishing and waxing my car.....

 

[Wax Gorilla]

I suspect alot of the Quick Detailers are 95% water !

 

[mcpp66]

I wish I could apply my math degree to detailing.

 

[Shane731]

I suspect Max has us all under a hypnotic spell so he can take all our money!






Just kidding Max!

 

[JonMiles]

I suspect alot of the Quick Detailers are 95% water !

Its a little less than that, but the concentration is over 50%. There are some hydrocarbons that make up about a quarter of the total, and depending on which one you are using either a silicone, carnauba, or kaolin constituent. Almost every qd i've ever tested has some sort of drying agent that activates with air exposure to an extent.

 

[CEE DOG]

Its a little less than that, but the concentration is over 50%. There are some hydrocarbons that make up about a quarter of the total, and depending on which one you are using either a silicone, carnauba, or kaolin constituent. Almost every qd i've ever tested has some sort of drying agent that activates with air exposure to an extent.

Anything specific you can say about Optimum Instant detailer and Fk425?

 

[JonMiles]

Anything specific you can say about Optimum Instant detailer and Fk425?

I can't say anything specific about those two because I have never analyzed them. If you look up the msds sheet on them it will tell you a few constituents and their relative concentrations, but these companies do very well about hiding the rest of the stuff they put in their products. Most the time water is exempt from the msds sheet because the EPA knows water is fine for the environment. In my experience, take the top % for each constituent in the chemical listed add them together, and 100 minus that number is close to the water % give or take 10%. Sometimes there is ethanol or IPA in the mix also which will not be listed. I have seen anywhere from 30-80% water in QD's so far, kind of a big range so you never know. Only one so far was less than 50% and it was recommended to dilute it 1:1 so workable QD was about 60%

 

[dnadrifter]

As a chemist I am super interested in this thread. (I think I can still call myself a chemist although I haven't been in lab for years) I have always wondered what is in these things especially when I am using sprays and they are going everywhere and just not on the paint.

By the way, Jon didn't go into this but this is a lot of work. You simply don't take this stuff and put it into an instrument. There is a ton of for lack of a better word "prep" work that goes into analyzing this stuff.

Keep up the good work. Any idea what the SDS concentration was or what buffer was used. Curious if they are using simple buffer like phosphate, citrate etc. or more complex stuff like Tris, HEPES, etc.

 

[Bunky]

It is interesting techno-blab but I think the real focus should be on how the chemistry is different from product to product. I do not think it is just because one APC has more cleaners but different kinds of ingredients with pros and cons. It is like the trade off between anionic, ionic, and cationic surfactants.

Why is Optimum Power Clean so good?
How does Meg's Gold Class differ from the higher cost soaps?

 

[JonMiles]

As a chemist I am super interested in this thread. (I think I can still call myself a chemist although I haven't been in lab for years) I have always wondered what is in these things especially when I am using sprays and they are going everywhere and just not on the paint.

By the way, Jon didn't go into this but this is a lot of work. You simply don't take this stuff and put it into an instrument. There is a ton of for lack of a better word "prep" work that goes into analyzing this stuff.

Keep up the good work. Any idea what the SDS concentration was or what buffer was used. Curious if they are using simple buffer like phosphate, citrate etc. or more complex stuff like Tris, HEPES, etc.

I have not finished the analyses on these products yet by any means and have only covered a few of the constituents thus far so the buffer is unidentified until I run some titrations and do the analytical part. I should be able to figure it out within the week and I am going to lab to do a few organic separations, run some hplc separations, and take nmr of each lc peak in the leather cleaner I am analyzing. It will take a few days to figure everything out on those due to running H, C, F, P nmrs.

I would imagine being that it is a consumer product, the companies would want to keep the price down and most likely opt for a simpler buffer IMO. Tris and HEPES from my experience cost quite a bit, where as acetates phosphate and citrates don't really cost much. And as far as concentrations go, my supplier asked that I please not release any of them for the sake of avoiding imitation. I should have my thesis published by june and I will post a link to it on here with all the information I have gathered.

Thank you very much for letting people know the amount of work this takes, many people reading this know a product works but do not know why. They also wish to know what part of the product does the job and in the future I will list the constituents of each product and their purpose.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just to chime in...

First, I'm just as interested in the chemistry and science behind the chemicals as anyone and probably more than most as my interest in the craft itself led me to a career in this industry. After 7 years at Meguiar's and a limited degree of access to their Chemists, it made me wish I would have become a chemist because I think it would be fun to be a Chemist in the car appearance industry. Alas it's too really too late for that and I enjoy what I do anyways and that's doing my best to show people how to get good results from the chemistry where the rubber meets the road and for most people that's when they're working on their car in their garage.

Now with that out of the way, I would just like to voice a word of caution towards this topic in this thread or any similar thread and by this I mean two things...

The different manufactures of car appearance products might be sensitive to information posted about their products especially if their own Chemists read it and take issue with what's posted. My very limited interaction with real Chemists at Meguiar's, (you can really only talk to the Chemist by following the protocols of working through your manager and there has to be a business related reason or need to actually meet with a Chemist for good reasons), is that just because a person can determine an ingredient inside a formula, that doesn't mean a lot because there are way too many variables surrounding each ingredient for someone that didn't actually make the formula to dissect it and the conjecture specific information about the product.

I've also talked to other Chemists from other manufactures of car care appearance products and suffice to say they may not agree with what's said about their products but at the same time they tend not to get involved in a public discussion forum over any issues, positive or negative.

The Internet has made our world much smaller and by this I mean sometimes it's a good idea to take a moment to think carefully about what you post on a public discussion forum, you just never know who's going to read it and keeping everything you do in your forum life at a professional level is a good best practice to form and adhere to over the long run. In the last 8 years I've met a lot of people from all segments of this industry and one thing I can say from experience is that it's important if you're going to be in this industry for the long run to have a good relationship with all segments... For whatever that's worth...

So heck I'm always interested in the science and chemistry behind the products used in our industry but I try to maintain a balance in the value it provides and the what matters in the real world and that's the performance of the products when you and I go out into our garage and work on our cars.

Does that make sense?

 

[Drdave]

Just to chime in...

First, I'm just as interested in the chemistry and science behind the chemicals as anyone and probably more than most as my interest in the craft itself led me to a career in this industry. After 7 years at Meguiar's and a limited degree of access to their Chemists, it made me wish I would have become a chemist because I think it would be fun to be a Chemist in the car appearance industry. Alas it's too really too late for that and I enjoy what I do anyways and that's doing my best to show people how to get good results from the chemistry where the rubber meets the road and for most people that's when they're working on their car in their garage.

Now with that out of the way, I would just like to voice a word of caution towards this topic in this thread or any similar thread and by this I mean two things...

The different manufactures of car appearance products might be sensitive to information posted about their products especially if their own Chemists read it and take issue with what's posted. My very limited interaction with real Chemists at Meguiar's, (you can really only talk to the Chemist by following the protocols of working through your manager and there has to be a business related reason or need to actually meet with a Chemist for good reasons), is that just because a person can determine an ingredient inside a formula, that doesn't mean a lot because there are way too many variables surrounding each ingredient for someone that didn't actually make the formula to dissect it and the conjecture specific information about the product.

I've also talked to other Chemists from other manufactures of car care appearance products and suffice to say they may not agree with what's said about their products but at the same time they tend not to get involved in a public discussion forum over any issues, positive or negative.

The Internet has made our world much smaller and by this I mean sometimes it's a good idea to take a moment to think carefully about what you post on a public discussion forum, you just never know who's going to read it and keeping everything you do in your forum life at a professional level is a good best practice to form and adhere to over the long run. In the last 8 years I've met a lot of people from all segments of this industry and one thing I can say from experience is that it's important if you're going to be in this industry for the long run to have a good relationship with all segments... For whatever that's worth...

So heck I'm always interested in the science and chemistry behind the products used in our industry but I try to maintain a balance in the value it provides and the what matters in the real world and that's the performance of the products when you and I go out into our garage and work on our cars.

Does that make sense?

I would have to agree with Mike on that. The science is interesting, but it probably goes over the heads of the avg person and confuses them even more.