The Thread of Clay

[vaca22]

Since forever I've been employing a particular method to clay a vehicle - a bar and Meg's Quik Detailer as lube. I'm fairly sure I have never had any marring issues with this combo. Like, ever. The only downside to this process that I can see is that it is somewhat time-consuming; lots of rubbing back and forth with a small bar.

So, I've seen clay towels being used in videos, specifically perforated ones, but I haven't had any experience with them. I'm guessing a towel is effective, but is it any more aggressive than your basic bar of clay? What brands would you recommend? I wanted to pick something up from The Rag Company but they've been sold out since forever.

How about those Autoscrub Nanoskin things? I feel as if people give it mixed reviews. I could be totally wrong.

I wanted to take care of my parents' cars. They are by no means particular about their vehicles. If they can run them through a car wash every month or two, they're happy with just that, so they're not sticklers for details. As such, I would rather NOT spend a lot of time being meticulous with the prep, hence my question about clay towels. I want to zip around their cars, and I also figured I could do something totally crazy like use an iron remover as a lube, thereby decontaminating in 1 single step.

Thoughts?

 

[crg001]

I like using synthetic clay for quick decontamination, or when full blown clay isn't needed. In my experience it's not as abrasive as real clay, so it won't remove the really stuck-in stuff as easily but also potentially won't mar as much when used properly.

I have used both a clay mitt and the Nanoskin Autoscrub sponges. I really like the sponges as the actual synthetic clay material is very high quality. These methods are easy to use in your wash bucket along side your wash mitt too. Wash with your wash mitt, then go over the surface again with the clay.

 

[Silly Rabbit]

I have Nanoskin sponge and Sonax Disk, I LOVE them. Now I think clay is great too, I have Meguiar's clay. I'm just I'm lazy and find these synthetic items so easy. :laughing: I also just picked up a Mothers Speed Clay...it was on clearance, great deal.

 

[PaulMys]

I like using synthetic clay for quick decontamination, or when full blown clay isn't needed. In my experience it's not as abrasive as real clay, so it won't remove the really stuck-in stuff as easily but also potentially won't mar as much when used properly.

I have used both a clay mitt and the Nanoskin Autoscrub sponges. I really like the sponges as the actual synthetic clay material is very high quality. These methods are easy to use in your wash bucket along side your wash mitt too. Wash with your wash mitt, then go over the surface again with the clay.

I agree 100%

Also, if you keep your paint well-maintained you shouldn't really need to "dig in" with traditional clay every time.

I have the Griot's synthetic clay disc (4") and both Nano-Skin sponges. And as you mentioned, the ease of use is leaps and bounds better than a clay bar.

 

[MisterSnoop]

I have the Griot's synthetic clay disc (4") and both Nano-Skin sponges.

Any preference between the Griot's and NanoSkin?

 

[dgage]

I think I saw DFB using a small clay sponge that looks like the CarPro PolyShave. Saw a review recently that the CarPro 6” synthetic clay pad was much better than the Nanoskin version in performance as well as price. Comments @DFB?

 

[Eldorado2k]

I want to zip around their cars, and I also figured I could do something totally crazy like use an iron remover as a lube, thereby decontaminating in 1 single step.

Thoughts?

Besides that 1 product that Meguiars recently came out with, don’t iron removers pretty much ruin claybars & synthetic clay? Maybe someone else can chime in with the definitive answer on that.

For what you’re describing, yea I guess the Nanoskin claymitt would fit your needs. I’ve never bothered with the light duty/sensitive one. I’ve only used the Medium grade claymitt and I liked it for the most part until I kept having to detail vehicles that were heavily contaminated and it simply didn’t cut it even though we were lead to believe the medium grade synthetic clay was heavy duty… It actually isn’t.
For times when you need some real deal decontamination nothing beats a real claybar, an aggressive 1 like the Meguiars Professional Red claybar.

This is a picture of the OTC Meguiars claybar but this is the level of contaminants that synthetic clay doesn’t seem to be able to deal with unless you’re willing to be there for a good long while doing it, and even then it might feel smooth, but go over it with a claybar and you’ll still pick up some more brown tinge off the paint. That’s why I lost alot of faith in synthetic clay.

On my own personal vehicles I use something like Pinnacle Poly Claybar because it’s light duty and smooth. My 2nd choice would be the Meguiars OTC white or even better their Professional Mild claybar. 3rd choice would be the Nanoskin mitt but once again why would I cheapen my results by not truly being able to see whether the clay is really done removing all the contaminants from the paint? IMO it’s like using an AIO vs. a dedicated polish & lsp. Why cut corners on my own vehicle? But maybe that’s just my way of thinking.

With a claybar I know when it’s fully decontaminated.

IME iron removers are irrelevant. I’ve demonstrated on here before and on vehicles I’ve detailed countless times that using a claybar removes 100% of iron deposits. Do I still use iron removers? Yea maybe once in a great while, but mainly for the cheap thrills, that’s about it. Lol.

 

[dgage]

But Eldordo2K, can’t you tell when all contaminants are removed by doing the baggie test for smoothness? That’s how I gauge if the clay or clay towel has done it’s job but I’d like to know if I’m missing something. I guess the question would be, if the paint feels smooth, will a good clay find any other contaminants?

But if I clay, that has the potential to mar the paint so I’ll polish afterwards anyway. And if the paint feels smooth but not necessarily all contaminants removed, which I’m not sure is possible, wouldn’t the polishing step get any remaining contaminants off the paint? Begs the question why to clay if the polishing step will remove all the contaminants anyway but I guess it is to reduce the contaminants clogging the polishing pads.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Question on baggie test. Can I use a just a normal zip loc bag? If not what kinda bag?


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[Bill D]

I was always taught to use a cellophane type of plastic wrapper

 

[SWETM]

I'm not so up for claying and not be doing a polishing afterwards. The contaminants until I feel the paint is no longer clean. I use alkaline prewash and iron remover and tar remover to keep them at a minimal.

The clay would on a good maintained car take out any iron particals in it. But if you use a iron remover first. You get the rust that has gotten the iron particals bigger. To easier let go when you come to clay it. That's the reason I personally do a chemichal decon before the claying. Then it's different from where we live and so on. Many ways works great.

The synthetic clays I feel like they are not so aggressive as in deep cleaning the paint. You have a lot more control from clay bars and see and feel easier when you have gotten it clean. But they do work. In my experience I need to be agitate the paint more with synthetic clay than with a great clay bar.

A tips that will reduce a probebly headace when using a synthetic clay. Make sure that when brand new to do the glass first. It's like a surface that needs to be breaked in. Some has gotten some horrific scratches the first use of synthetic clay. And this is a big reason to get that. Clay towels can be a bit tricky so make sure you use the whole surface on the glass first. You will feel that the synthetic clay gets sticky after the use on the glass. There are some that's better from the get go than others. But the safest is just to be doing the glass first when new.

I have block and towel and pad and glove of the synthetic clays. The block is what I reach for the most. But also the glove in a car soap solution works great. Feeling like the clay pad is very aggressive on the 21mm longthrow polisher that I only had. The towel gets used when I also use the glove. The clay block I use with Sonax Glass Cleaner regualary on the glass. It's a fast way to get them preped for a glass coating.

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[vaca22]

I think I saw DFB using a small clay sponge that looks like the CarPro PolyShave. Saw a review recently that the CarPro 6” synthetic clay pad was much better than the Nanoskin version in performance as well as price. Comments @DFB?

This is the one I had pulled up online (CarPro) as I started the thread. It got me thinking that I could save a lot of time.

 

[Eldorado2k]

But Eldordo2K, can’t you tell when all contaminants are removed by doing the baggie test for smoothness? That’s how I gauge if the clay or clay towel has done it’s job but I’d like to know if I’m missing something. I guess the question would be, if the paint feels smooth, will a good clay find any other contaminants?

The baggie test provides enough proof… In most cases, yes. But… There are exceptions.

Case and point: My previous Cadillac DTS. Keep in mind, prior to those final rounds with the claybar it Was passing the baggie test, and look at how much gunk the claybar still pulled out of that paint. I think it took 4 rounds to finally get it fully clean After it had passed the baggie test from having extensively used the Med Grade Nanomitt + 2 rounds of iron decontamination.

Ok so before the next bucket wash, I decided to try the DUB Wheel Cleaner on the paint again in order to see if there was any more iron particles in the paint, and also to see if the whole color changing deal was just for looks... As we can see it didn’t change colors the 2nd time around. No gimmicks. The DUB did a thorough job the 1st time around.

Now lets have a close look at this paint... After 2 washes, 2 iron decontaminations, and an intensive claying with a med. grade claymitt, this is what it looked like.

Pretty crazy huh?

So at this point I realized the claymitt was nowhere near as effective as I thought for all the time I spent with it on the paint... I decided to use the claybar for round 2.

After 4 times thoroughly going over it with the claybar... The paint was finally decontaminated. This was among the dirtiest paint I’ve ever seen.

The hood is now fully prepped for polishing. That’s not clay marring, that’s just plain oxidation.

Here’s a look at the roof, fully decontaminated. No reflections. I couldn’t see the reflection of sun or my super bright led flashlight on any of the horizontal panels. This is as bad as paint can get!

Can it be restored? Lets try some Megs D300 w/Lake Country HDO Microfiber Cutting Pad.

Here’s a 50/50 shot after 1 round of D300, followed by 1 round of Megs M205.

 

[Eldorado2k]

But if I clay, that has the potential to mar the paint so I’ll polish afterwards anyway. And if the paint feels smooth but not necessarily all contaminants removed, which I’m not sure is possible, wouldn’t the polishing step get any remaining contaminants off the paint? Begs the question why to clay if the polishing step will remove all the contaminants anyway but I guess it is to reduce the contaminants clogging the polishing pads.

Just some thoughts.

Contaminants can and will survive compound/polishing. It’s been a while, but I was initially told about this being the case by Mike Stoops from Meguiars. Not too long after that I experienced it 1st hand for myself.

I can’t quite remember why I didn’t clay that particular paint, but I’ll never forget the surprise [even though I had been told it could and would happen] when the rough contaminants could still be felt on the paint on the baggie test even after a heavy compound step.

Not only that, but yes, leaving contaminants on the paint prior to polishing makes for a rather unpleasant polishing experience. Similar to riding a bike on tires that need air. Lol.

 

[dgage]

Contaminants can and will survive compound/polishing. It’s been a while, but I was initially told about this being the case by Mike Stoops from Meguiars. Not too long after that I experienced it 1st hand for myself.

I can’t quite remember why I didn’t clay that particular paint, but I’ll never forget the surprise [even though I had been told it could and would happen] when the rough contaminants could still be felt on the paint on the baggie test even after a heavy compound step.

Not only that, but yes, leaving contaminants on the paint prior to polishing makes for a rather unpleasant polishing experience. Similar to riding a bike on tires that need air. Lol.

Thanks for the feedback Eldo and sharing your experience.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Thanks for the feedback Eldo and sharing your experience.

It’s kind of crazy and sometimes I can’t help but wonder if those high levels of contaminants only happen here in Los Angeles because I deal with paint that contaminated alot more often than not…

Los Angeles on a typical day.

This was at the peak of Covid. This is also what some people would like everyone to believe it’s always like out here… But honestly it’s not always like this, not even close TBO. Lol.

 

[SWETM]

Yeah the climate has a huge difference in how our vehicals gets contaminated. I don't know but many says that when you live near a huge harbor with a lot of traffic in it with container ships for an example. You can get acid rains a lot more. I live on country side in Sweden. And I rarely see any color changes other then on the vertical lower sides and some on the hood and the back on the vehicals. The roof is the most rare to see this color changes on. And usually it's just the iron particals that changes color. I see some where the paint all over the vehicals has color changes. And think that's mostly from acid rains. In bigger cities here in Sweden we see this all over the vehicals usually also.

Something that I've seen if I compare is that we here in Sweden seems to get a lot more tar spots from the asphalt roads. I think that this is mainly cause many uses studded winter tires in the winter months. From 1 december to 15 april it's even a law that we have to have winter tires on when it's winter weather. So basicly everyone runs on winter tires here during that time. I live in the southern of Sweden. And the more north up you get the more studded winter tires is used on vehicals. This takes it's toll on the asphalt roads a lot. Then I have been in near of the industry that lay out the asphalt roads. And they try still now different mixes of asphalt to see what blend is best. Sometimes it's a huge drawback from this. And some roads gets warning signs up cause it makes water planing if it's translated correctly. It's to smooth and the water gets staying on the roads and get very slippery in higher speeds. But also some roads is low quality of the asphalt and gets worned down fast. This release tar and especially when the roadsalt and the colder temperature coming it likes desolves and you see an increase in tar spots. And the summer is not so great either. As some asphalt gets sweating and the vehicals fling up the tar. It's a reason that you almost need to be useing a tar remover or a little more gentle one that we call cold degreaser. Almost every month or so and it's also needed to be used the whole year around on DD. I'm have been buffled with how little tar removers you guys uses in the US in general. But it's also how the vehicals is designed as well. Trucks and SUVs and larger vehicals that the wheel base is inside of the fenders more on the vehicals in the US than here. Is also a big part I think. I'm just to start the decon today on a friend car that I bought from him. He polished it 2 years ago and drives a lot. He's not so detailing interested so wash every other month or more longer between the washes. After 3 washes in my care and I use cold degreaser/tar remover as we usually do and high reputation product and spray on lett dwell for 5-10min and rinse off. There are tar spots still left that I will have to be useing a stronger stuff and clay the last of it off. It's crazy if you don't maintain the tar spots at a low level from the start after a clean paint.

The same is with the iron particals as with the tar. I think that the big difference is that low dust brake pads is used a lot more in the US. And comes original parts a lot more. Plus the designs difference on the vehicals between us. Also the studded winter tires the studs gets worn down and fling up on the paint during the winter months here as well. You see where the tires spray up on the vehicals and it's a lot more iron particals and tar there. We have some disaster detailing Youtube videos from domestic Youtubers. It's not so many interior or mud on the outside. But vehicals that is white paint and when covered in iron remover they get almost purple on the whole vehical LOL.

Here's an example of iron remover that's really bad. But not unusual on the vehicals that only sees swirl-o-matic washes

This is screenshots from a Youtube channel.

Tar Remover/Cold Degreaser

This is on not well maintained vehicals. And why there is a need to use chemichal decon. Before you would want to touch it with clay bar or synthetic clay. I don't know how many clay bars you would be needing to get through to clean this is up just with a regualary wash. Soon I will be doing a detail on one of my mother friends car for her 60th birthday. I suspect it could be bad LOL. Will be taking pictures on the work just for fun.

No critics to you Eldo at all. I see how thorough you are and you know what you are doing. Just a different climate than I live in. And I would certainly do the same thing as you if I lived in a climate like you do.

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[Eldorado2k]

@SWETM. Good Lord! That’s some detailing porn in those pictures! Lol.

You’re spot on, I do happen to live within about a mile from the port of Los Angeles.

 

[DFB]

I think I saw DFB using a small clay sponge that looks like the CarPro PolyShave. Saw a review recently that the CarPro 6” synthetic clay pad was much better than the Nanoskin version in performance as well as price. Comments @DFB?

I can see it now. The local distributor of CarPro in Australia also has a small line of product sold under their own branding. The Carpro version is $6.50 more.

CarPro Polyshave Block -



The home brand one -







I really like this style of claying, much easier to use. That said, I don't think these clay products completely replace a traditional clay bar, there will be times when the extra grunt of a clay bar will be needed.

 

[dlc95]

For me it depends.

My preference is the Meguiar's professional clays. The fine grade is almost luxurious to use, and it never marrs the finish.

I usually use the Nanoskin sponges but even the mild marrs the daylights out of the paint. Like Eldo said, I find that they don't always pick up the same level of contaminants as traditional clay.

I did encounter one instance where we had a brand new, off the delivery truck Toyota Supra came in. It was bright yellow, and had black spots all over the paint. Even the aggressive Meguiar's clay was no good removing them. It was the red nanoskin sponge that removed them with ease.

I also like the Mother's clay... Oh I also tried the Mother's synthetic clay two weeks ago. It was not very good. The car was super contaminated though. I had to go over it again with Megs fine grade and it made the paint glass smooth.

I always forget that I have the CarPro poly shave block. I'll have to remember it when the next vehicle that needs it comes in.

But if I was reduced to two, it would be the Megs professional clays. Absolutely love them.