The Truth About Wax

MobolWerks

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I recently spoke with a gentleman at 303 Products, and he was of the opinion that wax actually dulls automotive paint over time. He suggested that I use 303 Protectant as an alternative to wax. He said it would last longer and ensure long-lasting paintwork performance.

I am interested in hearing precisely why this might be true or not.

Thanks!!
 
303 as in interior dressing? He must have been brainwashed.... This site would not sell waxes if they "dull" the look overtime. He obviously does not know what machine polishing is or anything of that arena. Wax does not dull the finish overtime..... and if it did.... just machine polish. Wax (or sealant) protects the clearcoat from contaminants of the enviroment outside. You had to be talking to somebody highly biased of their own company...
 
I appreciate the response. I am actually a happy wax user, and have about zero interest in changing that. I asked the question simply because the detailing business is almost entirely based in flashy marketing. i.e Armor-All actually is in business regardless of their rediculously poor products. I'm mainly interested in the science behind the claims.

I'm curious if their is a particular product you would recommend due to provable science rather than smell, design, etc. - wax or whatever..

Thanks!
 
Opinions are just that if you have no research to back it up. From my experience over many years it sounds like a bunch of crap to me. I like 303 areospace protectant on plastic and rubber but I would be using it on my paint. Even a plastic it does seem to streak at times.
 
I recently spoke with a gentleman at 303 Products, and he was of the opinion that wax actually dulls automotive paint over time. He suggested that I use 303 Protectant as an alternative to wax. He said it would last longer and ensure long-lasting paintwork performance.

Amazing how much crap someone is willing to spew just to sell some product.
 
I appreciate the response. I am actually a happy wax user, and have about zero interest in changing that. I asked the question simply because the detailing business is almost entirely based in flashy marketing. i.e Armor-All actually is in business regardless of their rediculously poor products. I'm mainly interested in the science behind the claims.

I'm curious if their is a particular product you would recommend due to provable science rather than smell, design, etc. - wax or whatever..

Thanks!

Although manufactuers will not tell their specific ingredients.... the only "proveable" science in my perspective is someone conducting sealant or wax tests (as in durability). This has been done and you can easily find it through the search button. People have been using superior products for years now without "dulling" finishes... so all that is simply not true. Regardless, if the car is a daily driver, your clearcoat will inevitably be induced with minor swirls if you take care of it or heavy swirls if the car is neglected, thus "dulling" the vehicle's finish. That is why a lot of members here learn how to upkeep the paint in somewhat relatively near- new condition by doing a 2-3 step machine polish if the paint is in bad condition and just maintaining with a light polish on a 3-6-8-12 month basis. So, it is not the wax that "dulls" the finish, but rather the enviroment and how much a person neglects the car. Hope this helps.
 
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On this subject, I currently use P21S Concours-Look Paste Wax. I am curious if anyone has a link to any comparison research. i.e. which wax has proven to last the longest in real conditions, rather than simply in a lab. Also, which wax has the highest melting temp - I live in Atlanta and it gets hot as can be - I have been told that under high-heat conditions, wax can actually attract and hold dirt and road contaminants due to semi-melting in hot, humid environments.
 
I recently spoke with a gentleman at 303 Products, and he was of the opinion that wax actually dulls automotive paint over time.

My take...

That could be true for a poor quality car wax and the chances for that would be better in the old days, but it's pretty easy to see most quality products on the market don't dull paint down and if they do then it becomes a topic of discussion on forums like this.

Lots of variables involved too...

For example if you apply any kind of non-cleaning wax to a paint that is dirty, that is to the paint on a car that's a daily driver, then the non-cleaning wax would tend to seal over the dirt build-up on the paint and this could lead to a clouding effect. If a person wants to get persnickety about word definitions, it's possible to have paint that's shiny on the surface but cloudy below the surface so the word dull might not be the best descriptive word to describe the problem.

This is why almost all waxes at the retail level are cleaner waxes. When you go to your local auto parts stores, most of the retail waxes on the shelves do in fact fall into the cleaner/wax category as they are targeted at the average person and the average person is driving what we call a Daily Driver, that is the car they drive back and forth to work each day and most of the time it’s parked outside. Over time, the finish quality deteriorates and in order to restore it with just a single product you’ll want a cleaner/wax.

A cleaner/wax is also what we in the detailing industry call a One-Step product or an AIO.

AIO stands for All-In-One. AIO products will do multiple processes in one step, that is they will,

  1. Clean the surface
  2. Polish the paint to a high gloss
  3. Leave behind a layer of protection
The problem for the average Joe Consumer is that most retail products don’t specifically state what type of product they are? The tell you how to apply it, how long to let it dry and then how to remove it but they leave it wide open as to what the product is and how its best used.

A cleaner/wax is best used on a neglected finish because a neglected finish needs to be cleaned. Cleaner/Waxes, or All-In-One products are designed for a large market which includes do-it-yourselfers and detailers that want to restore a bright, shiny finish to the paint but want to do it in one-step. Their goal is to get a great looking finish without having to invest the time and effort associated with a multiple-step approach which usually includes,

  1. Dedicated compounding or paint cleaning step
  2. Dedicated polishing or glazing step
  3. Dedicated sealing step using a finishing wax or finishing paint sealant
Keep in mind besides the above 3 steps that are the norm for a multiple-step process, there's also,

  1. The washing and drying step
  2. The claying step if the car is parked outside a lot and has built-up above surface bonded contaminants. (Most daily drivers need to be clayed).
If we add the above two steps, (washing & drying step and claying step), together with the multiple 3-step approach that would make the average car detailing session 5 steps at a minimum.

  1. The washing and drying step
  2. The claying step if the car is parked outside a lot and has built-up above surface bonded contaminants. (Most daily drivers need to be clayed).
  3. Dedicated compounding or paint cleaning step
  4. Dedicated polishing or glazing step
  5. Dedicated sealing step using a finishing wax or paint sealant.
Because the majority of people in this world look at their car as a mode of transportation instead of an extension of their personality, its' easy to understand that most people want and only need a one-step cleaner/wax.

Anyway, I've seen and used a lot of waxes from the old days, and a lot of them weren't hat great at creating clarity and could in fact dull the paint down, not that back then the paints were single stage and would dull down on their own.

:)
 
People have indeed conducted a sealant and a wax test regarding this... so I think you would appreciate it. I am pretty sure someone will give you the links!
 
New to the forum. Gotta say, this is awesome! Can't believe how many of you responded so quickly. Thanks a bunch. Look forward to further discussions!!
 
I recently spoke with a gentleman at 303 Products, and he was of the opinion that wax actually dulls automotive paint over time.

I haven't seen any for years now but there used to be waxes on the market that were basically rubbing compound/wax combinations targeted at severely oxidized paints and also gel-coat finishes on boats.

We're talking sand in a can with a wax thrown in, if this were used on a clear coat finish it would definitely dull the paint down via scratching.

When clear coat paints first came out starting in the 1980's a lot of the retail type consumer waxes, which were mostly cleaner/waxes were more aggressive than they are now and they would also dull a clear coat finish down.

Again, most modern wax or paint sealant formulas manufactured by any reputable companies offer quality products that just don't work like the products did pre-clear coat paints.

:)
 
Almost every time you post Mike, I get comfortable because I know that there's a lot of thought, experience, and quality behind your postings and will be very informative. There are a few times that you have short posts, but they are usually informative as well. I think it's great that you take the time to help out so many people.
 
persnickety

Heh heh heh.....love the word :xyxthumbs:


And while it is true that 303 does actually create a nice slick surface on paint and probably also protects from UV (I tried it on a corner of my bumper a couple of times), it is (as everyone else has said) complete RUBBISH that waxes will dull the paint over time. I think Mikes' reply was correct about some low quality waxes, or non cleaning waxes being used on a dirty surface being the only times that a wax could "dull" a surface.

Did the gentleman at 303 give any reason as to why he thought waxes dulled the paint down over time? I'd be interested to know his reasoning.
 
The 303 guy didn't give a specific reason. I think his research is outdated after hearing Mike's response.

He did say however, that the biggest reason was in fact the UV protection. It makes sense that any painted surface would "hold up" better if protected from UV - i.e. paint fades due to sun exposure.
 
And just to note, the color coat under the clear can fade but realistically the clear layer can only get dull since there's no color to fade in the clear layer itself.

The best UV protection is in the clear layer of paint built-into the paint by the paint manufacture. The best thing we can all do is to maintain the paint so it doesn't deteriorate. After that the next best thing we can do is keep a layer of a quality wax or paint sealant on top of the clear layer.

And for what it's worth, keep the car out of the sun if possible.


:)
 
What are your thoughts on the idea that wax on lower body panels during the summer in Atlanta, GA might not be the best idea, due to the surface temp getting so high that the wax in a sense "attracts dirt and contaminates" due to partial "melting"???

I am considering using just Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant on lower panels and roof, and wax/sealant combo on the upper panels and hood.

Am I over-thinking things :)
 
What are your thoughts on the idea that wax on lower body panels during the summer in Atlanta, GA might not be the best idea, due to the surface temp getting so high that the wax in a sense "attracts dirt and contaminates" due to partial "melting"???

I am considering using just Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant on lower panels and roof, and wax/sealant combo on the upper panels and hood.

Am I over-thinking things :)

The nature of detailing discussion forums is to take what's simple and over-complicate it...

:D


I've never seen a coat of wax heat up and slip of the panels of a car? :laughing:

A car wax is the sum of it's components after final set-up on the paint, I read about concerns over high temperatures a lot over the decades, but I never see anyone posting pictures of the issue? Like zero pictures? It would be one thing if there were a few pictures of the kind of heat problems you and others describe but there aren't any that I can remember, and certainly not a plethora of heat/wax related pictures?

That said, warm temperatures are a factor and if you feel more comfortable in your geographical location to use a synthetic paint sealant then by all means go with it...

:xyxthumbs:
 
Wax your lowere panels the Wax will not "DRIP" off. Use a good wax like FUSION and you will get long life out of it!
 
I think I may have been a little to general in my statement of "melting".. what I mean to say, is that in high-heat climates, is it reasonable that the outermost layer of the wax could become "soft" enough to allow road contaminates to imbed themselves in the wax

By no means do I assume the wax would melt to the point of falling off of the car:)
 
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