Tips on removing weird stains caused by"ceramic hybrid" finish?

[TreverT]

Hello! Recently I tried out a new product (which I'm not going to name because I don't want to bash anyone's stuff if I was somehow at fault). It's one of those many new "wax/ceramic hybrid"-type finishes. I applied it exactly according to the bottle instructions and it seemed to go on OK. However, we had rain several days later and I found the paint covered in odd "water spots" like this:

View attachment 67655

They're stains, not like normal water spots with raised edges and all. Also, they DON'T want to come out. I experimented a little and found that the coating, when dripped directly onto the paint, made identical stains if it sat for any time at all, so I'm guessing that the stuff just didn't bond with the paint or somehow liquefied in the rain, then settled in small water spot puddles and stained everywhere it was gathered.

I've tried vinegar, water spot remover, tar & wax remover, alcohol, and exhortations to the heavens, but nothing seems able to remove these spots but a lot of hard polishing with compound. A LOT of polishing managed to get me this:

View attachment 67656

But there's still a heck of a lot of spots to remove. Does anyone have any tips or advice on better & easier ways to remove these stains? Thanks!

 

[Rsurfer]

Find a better coating. Most ceramic coatings are prone to spotting. In the case with CarPro's CQurartz UK3.0, topping with their Reload will help with the spotting.

You tried almost everything to remove the spotting short of re polishing. Can you contact the manufacture?

 

[SWETM]

This is one that you spray on dry paint and wipe it off with a mf towel? Or is it a spray on rinse off product on wet paint?

The most common user errors with any kind of ceramic/SiO2 products is that you work in a to big of a section at the time or letting it to dwell for a too long time before you wipe it off or rinse it off very thoroughly. This is just to make a notice about it and if it's possible you could have been doing any of this.

Otherwise it's more to be water spots. You useally get these from tap water or well water with high concentration of minerals in it. Since you get higher and tighter beads the water of this kind acts like a magnifying glass and etch your paint. So do you have any sprinklers near where you have parked during this time? Or rinsed the paint with not being fast to dry the car after a wash or something like that? Can it be that you live in an environment where the earth or sand is full of minerals? These can in rare cases be coming down with the rain again.

Since you have tried different chemicals to desolve it. I think it's not general dirt that have dried in a spotting pattern cause of the beading. These are useally easier to washing off. Then as Rsurfer mentions some coating products is easier prone to leave water spots. And especially in the first week when even if it's not smearing or anything it's take some time to fully cure and also with some creat the best hydrophobic layer takes this time. As the use of a topper like Reload for cquartz coatings to have a sacrificial layer to let the coating cure fully under it.

 

[TreverT]

Find a better coating. Most ceramic coatings are prone to spotting. In the case with CarPro's CQurartz UK3.0, topping with their Reload will help with the spotting.

You tried almost everything to remove the spotting short of re polishing. Can you contact the manufacture?

I could, but I doubt there's anything they can do. I've already searched their forums for people with similar problems and the usual response is, "Polish until the spots are gone." I was just hoping someone might have some idea of a way to get rid of these stains without destructive polishing (To remove the stains I literally have to polish until my polishing rag is green with car paint, and still the stains leave shadow marks behind).

As for the coating, I've just gone back to wax like I've always used, which works fine.

 

[TreverT]

This is one that you spray on dry paint and wipe it off with a mf towel? Or is it a spray on rinse off product on wet paint?

The most common user errors with any kind of ceramic/SiO2 products is that you work in a to big of a section at the time or letting it to dwell for a too long time before you wipe it off or rinse it off very thoroughly. This is just to make a notice about it and if it's possible you could have been doing any of this.

Otherwise it's more to be water spots. You useally get these from tap water or well water with high concentration of minerals in it. Since you get higher and tighter beads the water of this kind acts like a magnifying glass and etch your paint. So do you have any sprinklers near where you have parked during this time? Or rinsed the paint with not being fast to dry the car after a wash or something like that? Can it be that you live in an environment where the earth or sand is full of minerals? These can in rare cases be coming down with the rain again.

Since you have tried different chemicals to desolve it. I think it's not general dirt that have dried in a spotting pattern cause of the beading. These are useally easier to washing off. Then as Rsurfer mentions some coating products is easier prone to leave water spots. And especially in the first week when even if it's not smearing or anything it's take some time to fully cure and also with some creat the best hydrophobic layer takes this time. As the use of a topper like Reload for cquartz coatings to have a sacrificial layer to let the coating cure fully under it.

It was a spray-on-wet-surface/rinse-off product, though the instructions specify to dry off after first application instead of rinsing. I worked on the trunk area 1/3 at a time.

My best guess is that the coating simply didn't have enough time to cure properly before the rain hit, though it did have several days and the bottle mentions nothing about a required curing time.

 

[Rsurfer]

It was a spray-on-wet-surface/rinse-off product, though the instructions specify to dry off after first application instead of rinsing. I worked on the trunk area 1/3 at a time.

My best guess is that the coating simply didn't have enough time to cure properly before the rain hit, though it did have several days and the bottle mentions nothing about a required curing time.

Doing it sections at a time might have caused overspray.

 

[SWETM]

It was a spray-on-wet-surface/rinse-off product, though the instructions specify to dry off after first application instead of rinsing. I worked on the trunk area 1/3 at a time.

My best guess is that the coating simply didn't have enough time to cure properly before the rain hit, though it did have several days and the bottle mentions nothing about a required curing time.

As Rsurfer mentions it's easy to get overspray and even when rinsing it off it's important to go over a larger section than you applyied it on. Then you mentioned that you get paint transfer when you polishing it off. Makes me think that you have applyied it on a single stage paint. Know this is just some thoughts about it and no proof. But single stage paint is porous in it's nature. And the SiO2 technology works as it bonds to the valleys of the paint if you take it down to a very close up look. Wax and synthetic sealants bonds to the high ridges and push down into the valleys. And ceramics building up from the valleys to smooth the paint to a higher gloss. This is useally why ceramics don't work so well on SS paints. Other than if you use more amount of product than you useally does and this you get from layering them.

These spray on rinse off products cure and bonds very fast and I mean really really fast LOL. The more common ones where you rinse it off you can see how it bonds while you rinsing it off and spreads with the water. Many thinks it's water activated but it's actually pressure activated. That's why many recommends to rinse it off with a PW or a strong water pressure from the hose. With it getting down to the the valleys in the paint. It can be that the product got stuck down there in your paint. And when the rain come some of the product came up to the surface and spotted when it dried. These products when they don't get rinsed off thoroughly or or removed after too long. The SiO2 gets very hard and thick when cured this way. I have seen nightmares when Gyeon and Carpro released their products. And users went to cover the whole car and started to rinse it off. Then they stod with a thick and grabby layer with this stuff. One so bad so they needed to be wet sanding as a first step to level down the amount of it until it where able to be compounding off. So this is just a theory that you had some weird reaction from it when it rained on it.

I know which product you refer to. It's a hybrid and useally on bc/cc paints any high spots is easy to wipe them off. I think this is the other part of the SiO2 technology in it that can haze up later on and be wiped off easy. Cause SiO2 technology if you get it cured enough it's not many things you can get it off with than polishing it off. This is since you are sure nothing else could have been staining or etch your paint. Single stage paint is so dependant on how non porous the individual paint you apply a ceramic coating or any other coating technology is to be able to get it to work. I useally says to be sticking with organic wax or synthetic wax or sealant on these paints. Or try it on a little spot and see how it works on just that paint. Have seen great coatings on SS paints behave almost like there where nothing on the paint at all. So results can be various from paint to paint.

But have you got it off now?

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Megs ceramic hybrid? Just guessing cuz you said their forum plus initial description. The stuff is thick and very clingy. You just gotta make sure you give it thorough rinse.

I’ve read we’re a hose may leave those spots. Did you rinse with garden hose or PW.

If garden hose use most powerful setting and rinse extra well. Some have diluted product as well.

As for removing I’ve tried all the usual suspect. May try wetting and re applying on spots to “reactivate”. If that doesn’t work it looks as if a polish is in your future.

Wish you luck


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[TreverT]

I managed to get most of the stains off the rear end by polishing, though a few shadow spots still linger. Out of curiosity I picked up some citrus wheel cleaner to see if it might help, in careful small applications.

Regarding the application of the coating, the instructions were to wet the surface, spray on the coating, then dry - That was for the initial application. Later applications were to be sprayed on and then hosed off. So, I'm guessing it was just way too thick and re-liquefied during the rain, at least partly. This is why I'm reluctant to "name names", because I don't want to badmouth a product if it was me that screwed up. But, that said, I DID follow the bottle instructions exactly.

Once I got the stains off the trunk, I redid the whole thing with Meg's Ultimate Wax instead. Beautiful shine. Last night it rained a lot in the wee hours, then we got bright sun for water spot baking and yet zero stains - I have "normal" waterspots which wet-wipe easily and leave no marks, but got none of those pale spot stains as before. So, apparently the wax both stuck and provided protection.

Now I just have the rest of the car to polish...

 

[Mike lambert]

Coatings belong omg clear coat. I’ve seen all kinds of problems with coating single stage. Also hear a lot of complaints about all these so called spray on coatings.

 

[TreverT]

Coatings belong omg clear coat. I’ve seen all kinds of problems with coating single stage. Also hear a lot of complaints about all these so called spray on coatings.

What do you recommend for single stage? We've got a yellow Focus ST that I'll have to get to eventually also, that I'm also assuming is single stage. Just wax? I've used Turtle Wax Ice Spray Wax in the past and really liked it for ease and results.

 

[Mike lambert]

In my opinion, a Sealant and give it 24 hours to cure and a wax over top.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

I’ve got a newer mustang and the coating seem to be fine. I was always wary of spray on spray off sealants and only use on wheels.

Maybe try a sio2 wipe on wipe off sealant. I like the water behavior much more and their good for 4-6 months real life.


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[SWETM]

What do you recommend for single stage? We've got a yellow Focus ST that I'll have to get to eventually also, that I'm also assuming is single stage. Just wax? I've used Turtle Wax Ice Spray Wax in the past and really liked it for ease and results.

What year modell is the Ford ST? From the late 90s most every car has a bc/cc paints. If you are uncertain you can do a little handpolishing with a hand pad that's not yellow. And if you get paint transfer on the polishing pad you have SS paint. If you just get the polish residue and a little dirt often you have bc/cc paint.

I see what you mean with not bashing before you knows what happened. But this is not only directed to a specific brand but to all of them that use SiO2 and ceramic coating technology. That they can get better to inform that this is not so good on SS paints. I don't think I have seen anyone mention it in their description of coating products. Sure it can work on some SS paints but that's rare it does so. And with going to be applying their products and have an expextation from it. The real world results is often very sad on these paints.

If it's not a DD the car with the SS paint on it. I would go with a good carnuaba wax. Collinite 915 is a nice one with a decent longevity and very good longevity from a carnuaba wax with 3-5 months longevity from it. Also at a very great price on it.

I have used the spray on rinse off products a lot and been very satisfied with them I have used. The ones on AGO is Carpro Hydro2 lite and Sonax Spray and Seal and Gyeon Wet Coat and then some not sold on AGO. IMO if you don't have a shade area or a PW or a low water pressure from the hose I would not use these products. Apply them in the sun is a no go as they just cure too fast and you can get big problems with them. The strong water pressure makes it to fully bond and you get what to expect from them. If you use the products I have used and apply it panel by panel with thorough rinsing it off. You will get great results from them on a clean paint as in not a high amount of imbedded contaminants on the paint. 2-3 months of great behavior from them is what I useally gets even in the harsh winter weather environment I live in. And they are so easy to apply and maintain with just apply a new layer of it every 2-3 months or so. The first 3 months I apply them monthly to build up the behavior from them and it's gets as near as full blown ceramic coating behavior I can get from them. And have not had any problems at all with them in the last 2 years of use and mostly as a stand alone LSP too. The only off label use I do and it's when I start to build up the behavior from them or when I minimize the amount of product I need to be useing. Is that I spray 2 times on the wet panel and split the roof and the hood in 2 sections. Then I wipe it in on every part of the surface with a damp mf applicator sponge or mf towel. And directly rinse it off with the PW. This way I use less than 100ml/~3.5oz on the whole car. So I don't wipe it off but just spreading it to an even coverage and less sprays per panel needed and also IME a better behavior from them. So with the right conditions to apply them in they work awesome for me. I think that I have seen some do this application method I do with the HCW and got very great results from it even the foundation layer done this way. It's on the thicker side and it don't mist out so well from the bottle. So with wipe it in with this product I think that you will be satisfied with it on a bc/cc paint and rinse it off very thoroughly with a strong water pressure. You can dilute it for maintance and some use it as a drying aid. But I like to spreading it out on a wet panel and rinse it off as it's goes very fast to do a whole car.

 

[TreverT]

The Focus is a 2017. Haven't tested it yet but I know the Spyder is single stage because I can rub it hard with a polishing cloth and come away with some green color on the rag.

It may sound ridiculous, but I've ended up using some front and side pics of the car and trying different products on different panels, marking which product I used on which area. So far I've tried Meg's Ultimate Wax, CG Black Light, and Turtlewax Ice Spray Wax, and none have cause the staining that occurred with the hybrid ceramic stuff. We just had a heavy rain for half the night last night too, and this morning I only had normal, hose-away water spots, not those weird stains.

I'll check out the Collinite too. I've heard tons of great reviews of the stuff, and was already curious but I was cautious of just throwing money at more products until I had a better understanding of what caused this issue and what product made it happen.

I'll test out the other sprays you mention on the Focus, in some small areas to check results. It's amazing how complicated this has all gotten - Makes me miss the days when waxing a car just meant going to Roses to pick up a container of paste wax! Thanks very much for all the useful into, to you and everyone else who has responded. It's been a big help, and very educational.

 

[Rsurfer]

The Focus is a 2017. Haven't tested it yet but I know the Spyder is single stage because I can rub it hard with a polishing cloth and come away with some green color on the rag.




Could it be tinted clear coat?

 

[TreverT]

The Focus is a 2017. Haven't tested it yet but I know the Spyder is single stage because I can rub it hard with a polishing cloth and come away with some green color on the rag.




Could it be tinted clear coat?

Not a clue. It is a repaint - The previous owner had it repainted back in 2010-ish, and I have no idea what type or quality of paint was used, though it still looks good.

 

[SWETM]

The Focus is a 2017. Haven't tested it yet but I know the Spyder is single stage because I can rub it hard with a polishing cloth and come away with some green color on the rag.

It may sound ridiculous, but I've ended up using some front and side pics of the car and trying different products on different panels, marking which product I used on which area. So far I've tried Meg's Ultimate Wax, CG Black Light, and Turtlewax Ice Spray Wax, and none have cause the staining that occurred with the hybrid ceramic stuff. We just had a heavy rain for half the night last night too, and this morning I only had normal, hose-away water spots, not those weird stains.

I'll check out the Collinite too. I've heard tons of great reviews of the stuff, and was already curious but I was cautious of just throwing money at more products until I had a better understanding of what caused this issue and what product made it happen.

I'll test out the other sprays you mention on the Focus, in some small areas to check results. It's amazing how complicated this has all gotten - Makes me miss the days when waxing a car just meant going to Roses to pick up a container of paste wax! Thanks very much for all the useful into, to you and everyone else who has responded. It's been a big help, and very educational.

The Ford Focus ST has the bc/cc paint if it's not repainted with a SS paint.

What's also strange to sort out is that even haveing the Wax in it's name. It's not always it has any organic wax in the product. Some detailing company thinks it's easier for some customer to know it's a protection product. So they put in the Wax part for the masses.

What year modell is the Spyder?
Most repaints even around 2010 and say during 2000' if done by a rebutable bodyshop and if not especially wanting a SS paint. Is bc/cc paint as it's visual looks last longer than than the SS paint even when it's starting to oxidize as both paint sysrem does. Not that you don't can get a SS paint look really great as that you can and some even prefer the looks from it. But the bc/cc paint is much tougher in many ways as to chemical resistance as in etching less easier.

As a swede I have not so much of experience with the pbmg product lines. The products that you have tested on the front would be good to go with. They are more on the sealant range of products. So you know that the SS paint handles the polymer based protection products well. To get the most out of the looks from a SS paint it's useally to get any dead paint aka oxidation off the paint. If you work by hand doing this a great and easy to use on SS paints is Sonax Easy Shine. Most cleaner waxes/AIO will be doing the same. And with the help of the mild abrasives in these you get the dead paint off. Top it up and maintain it for longer in betweens before doing a new AIO job. This is on a well protected paint as with a modern paint every year or every other year depending on the paint quality of the repaint and the protection from UV rays the products you have has. To Sonax Easy Shine a good combo is to top it and maintain it with Sonax Speed Protect. Just as an option to all of the others. Maintance with SS paint is the oldest thing so many products works for you. It's just the newer ceramic SiO2 coating products that on it self works in a different way that is not a benefit on the SS paint. But on the Ford Focus ST you have ceramic coating and SiO2 maintance products is awesome in many ways. So even if you had problem with the product on the Spyder I would do a little test spot on the ST and you will notice that it's a great option. One tips I heard of is to be thorough with giving it a really good shake before and during the application of it.

Look what I bought to test out after the answers before to you LOL

Will be fun to see how it compares to the other spray on rinse off products I have used before. And will apply it side by side with Turtle Wax ICE Seal N Shine to see how they does on comparison for me.

The products I mentioned before and you can top the Easy Shine with the products you have or the Collinite 915. The Easy Shine is a recommendation if you work by hand. If you have a polisher which is effective to have you have a lot of cleaner waxes/AIO to chose from that's great to work with.

SONAX Easy Shine, all in one polish wax

And if you want to use a spray on wipe off product instead of a paste wax. Sonax Speed Protect and the products you have as the Turtle Wax ICE Spray Wax is good options.

SONAX Speed Protect

If you want to have a very durable paste wax the Collinite 476s is an awesome to go with. 6-9 months longevity from it from real world use is what you get with this. The 915 you get 3-5 months longevity from. It's more carnuaba in the 915 than 476s but both has a great carnuaba glow look from them.

Collinite Marque D?Elegance Carnauba Paste Wax #915, car wax, paste auto wax

Collinite Super DoubleCoat Auto Wax No. 476

/ Tony