To much for a paint correction?
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Billy Baldone
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- May 11, 2011
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I just quoted an F150 extended cab, awful paint at 550. After wash, nanoskin, decontaminate, cut,polish, and seal, I figure 10-14 hours. It's pretty bad. Your price is fine
zmcgovern45
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- Sep 5, 2012
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We won't touch a truck for under $600... and that is just for a one-step and sealant or wax application. Your price seems like a deal for that amount of work.
zmcgovern45
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Plenty of us will beg to differ. True paint correction is entirely different than that shop down the street who will "buff and wax" your car for a couple hundred dollars.
I do agree that you need to understand the customer's expectations beforehand though. We are known for our correction work, and only do correction work, so people usually know what they are getting in to. If you do offer more basic services, it is important to explain the differences in service and therefore price in detail before signing a customer up for a particular service.
Zach,
That's 2-steps technically. I know you call it a 1-step...as do some others here.
I'm not interested in why you call it that, but rather what you used because your description doesn't tell me that.
Exactly what is your "one-step and sealant or wax application"?
1. Do you top an AIO product?
2. Do you use a light/finish polish, something like M205, then the wax/sealant?
3. Do you use something like FG400 that will cut and finish down nice, then seal?
4. Other
In other words...
Was a true AIO used (I'm guessing an AIO wasn't used knowing how meticulous you are...that's all good) and if not, was that "one-step" a light, medium, or heavy "one-step" process?
Most otc AIO's don't last that long and I'd venture to say that most folks that visit this forum for the first time aren't detailers and understand otc AIO's don't last long, as I'm sure you aware.
Regular forum members and detailers have better AIO alternatives at places like PBMG. Some last longer than their otc counterparts, others don't, and it's probably safe to say that only a handful offer protection of any length of time. Some cut more than their otc counterparts, some don't.
Some people top these AIO's with a wax or sealant, but probably most don't.
These are things forum members know, but I think when we word things we need to be mindful of new members that may not know these products/processes the way we do.
I know you sealed it, but the reason I wrote all of this is that I wanted to know what you used for your cutting step. (Probably said that already.)
Was trying my best not to word this as to make you think I was picking on you as that wasn't my intent and I spent a lot of time choosing my words carefully before posting trying not to come across the wrong way.thoroughly communicating our processes/steps. Expectations 'should' be clear if we've been thorough in communicating
conman1395
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- Nov 23, 2013
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Just to clear up some terminology:
One-step is one step of correction. Doesn't mean the job is done in one step.
All-in-one means it has the correction step and LSP step all in one step.
If an AIO wasn't used, as I assumed, then the cut obviously came from something else.
The above infered I knew his "one-step" was indeed "one step of correction", as that's why I put that statement into parenthesis.
zmcgovern45
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One-step implies one correction step.
We do not currently use any AIO products on customer cars. Our idea of a one-step correction involves removing as many defects as possible while still finishing without introducing micro-marring/haze into the finish. For some vehicles this may be something as delicate as SF4500 on a finishing pad, while others may be able to take something more aggressive like D300 on a cutting pad... we perform test spots on every vehicle to determine exactly where that boundary lies between cut and finish, then choose a process that will allow us to maximize our defect removal without compromising the finishing abilities.
99% of our work now involves paint coatings, so we haven't used a traditional wax or sealant in 2 years now, but if we were to use a traditional method of protection it would be applied directly after this one-step correction process. Our usual sealant of choice would be either Menzerna Power Lock or Blackfire Wet Diamond, and if we use a wax, I prefer Pinnacle Souveran.
Hope that answers your questions, if not, please let me know and I will do my best to clarify.
-Zach
We do not currently use any AIO products on customer cars. Our idea of a one-step correction involves removing as many defects as possible while still finishing without introducing micro-marring/haze into the finish. For some vehicles this may be something as delicate as SF4500 on a finishing pad, while others may be able to take something more aggressive like D300 on a cutting pad... we perform test spots on every vehicle to determine exactly where that boundary lies between cut and finish, then choose a process that will allow us to maximize our defect removal without compromising the finishing abilities.
99% of our work now involves paint coatings, so we haven't used a traditional wax or sealant in 2 years now, but if we were to use a traditional method of protection it would be applied directly after this one-step correction process. Our usual sealant of choice would be either Menzerna Power Lock or Blackfire Wet Diamond, and if we use a wax, I prefer Pinnacle Souveran.
Hope that answers your questions, if not, please let me know and I will do my best to clarify.
-Zach
My point in all of this is a customers expectations are changed when he asks you what you did and you tell him a one-step and seal, unless you did a thorough job explaining in the first place.
I'm going out on a limb and guessing most folks looking for a detail, or non-forum members, when they heare the words one-step and seal...they don't here the seal part, rather, only the "one-step" part of the sentence.
Then they give you this deer in the headlights look like, "why is the price so high?"...because they don't understand what's being said, much less the extra time/work involved. They think an AIO product is what is being used and so they think they're not getting anything more that an over-the-counter cleaner/wax.
In fact, the term cleaner/wax describes a one-step perfectly...and that's what makes them so appealing to Joe Consumer. Take a look at how long A12 has been around...almost 43 years.
I'll submit that going around the car/truck more than once is not one-step...it is indeed step(s)...plural...more than one.
One step of cutting, then seal, is indeed once step of cutting, then seal...but it's still two steps. That is, it's going around the car/truck two times.
Again,
All I was asking Zach was what he used in his one-step cutting process. He still went would go around that truck twice, as he his one-step then seal description was...and that's still two steps.
What I'm saying with all of this is:
When dealing with customers and showing them our packages we need to be real clear in our communication and clearly state in writing and with word exactly what our intent is.
That is, if a package includes an AIO, then explain you'll be using a product that does everything while only going around the car once, therefore it's a quicker process. Then, if they want to step up in correction, then be clear with explaining the additional time/cost and how many steps of correction each level is and what to expect.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...e-use-one-step-cleaner-wax-mike-phillips.html
I'm going out on a limb and guessing most folks looking for a detail, or non-forum members, when they heare the words one-step and seal...they don't here the seal part, rather, only the "one-step" part of the sentence.
Then they give you this deer in the headlights look like, "why is the price so high?"...because they don't understand what's being said, much less the extra time/work involved. They think an AIO product is what is being used and so they think they're not getting anything more that an over-the-counter cleaner/wax.
In fact, the term cleaner/wax describes a one-step perfectly...and that's what makes them so appealing to Joe Consumer. Take a look at how long A12 has been around...almost 43 years.
I'll submit that going around the car/truck more than once is not one-step...it is indeed step(s)...plural...more than one.
One step of cutting, then seal, is indeed once step of cutting, then seal...but it's still two steps. That is, it's going around the car/truck two times.
Again,
All I was asking Zach was what he used in his one-step cutting process. He still went would go around that truck twice, as he his one-step then seal description was...and that's still two steps.
What I'm saying with all of this is:
When dealing with customers and showing them our packages we need to be real clear in our communication and clearly state in writing and with word exactly what our intent is.
That is, if a package includes an AIO, then explain you'll be using a product that does everything while only going around the car once, therefore it's a quicker process. Then, if they want to step up in correction, then be clear with explaining the additional time/cost and how many steps of correction each level is and what to expect.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...e-use-one-step-cleaner-wax-mike-phillips.html
zmcgovern45
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- Sep 5, 2012
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A customer will never feel the need to ask what we did after the appointment. They will know beforehand exactly what they are paying for. It is our job to ensure that our expectations and the customer's expectations are in line before ever agreeing to work on a vehicle. I've designed my website to answer most of those questions before they ever contact me in the first place, which helps a great deal.
If someone is not communicating clearly to their customer, they're going to have a hard time making it in the business of paint correction. In general, if someone is truly looking for correction work, they should be prepared for the price, and if not, the detailer needs to be able to explain and demonstrate what it is they do and why it costs what it costs.
Not sure how this thread got so far off track... but for the sake of the OP... let's get back to his original question without random side conversation.
-Zach
If someone is not communicating clearly to their customer, they're going to have a hard time making it in the business of paint correction. In general, if someone is truly looking for correction work, they should be prepared for the price, and if not, the detailer needs to be able to explain and demonstrate what it is they do and why it costs what it costs.
Not sure how this thread got so far off track... but for the sake of the OP... let's get back to his original question without random side conversation.
-Zach
That's what I thought you meant, Zach, but thank you for the clarification.
For others reading this in the future...
Saying "one-step and sealant" is a far cry from saying "one-step correction"...even though I knew what Zach meaning to say.
Thanks again, Zach.
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but discussing proper communication as it relates to steps relates directly to what we charge.
A compouning one-step correction, or an FG400 correction will most often take longer than say, a M205 one-step correction. How can you know what to charge until a test spot is performed? Or is that the set price for one-step correction work?
onsite
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- May 22, 2015
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So anyways im thinking the guy wanted a compound and polish. Which is what i priced it for.
I called a shop asked the same way he did "for a buff and compound polish". They gave me a price if $65 then i asked if that included clay bar compound and polishing etc. Told me no just got wash glaze and wax. Then told me $100 for what i was asking for.... ### how do i even compete against that
I called a shop asked the same way he did "for a buff and compound polish". They gave me a price if $65 then i asked if that included clay bar compound and polishing etc. Told me no just got wash glaze and wax. Then told me $100 for what i was asking for.... ### how do i even compete against that
zmcgovern45
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- Sep 5, 2012
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This is exactly what I was talking about.... you must be able to differentiate your services from the rest of your competition.
Clearly there is a difference in what you're doing and what the shop down the road is doing, yet it is your job to make that obvious to your customers.
Put together an informative and clear website that shows your work. Setup consultations with potential clients to inspect their car and discuss how best to proceed with solving the issues they are concerned with. Make them understand the lengthy process and expertise that go into your services. Do this all without bashing anyone else's work, be professional, be knowledgeable, and make them feel that you are the man for the job.
If at the end of the day they were not looking for a higher end service and instead wanted to go get a "buff and wax" that is up to them, but I assure you, with proper marketing and salesmanship you will attract the clientele you are after.
-Zach
:goodpost: Excellent advice, Zach. Your attention to detail in your work shows thru in your posts as well.
Mike lambert
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- Aug 16, 2011
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It sounds like a fair price, but it depends on the are as to what you can ask, trust me I know!
onsite
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- May 22, 2015
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Thanks zach, something i need to finish is my website. I have a basic one until I can finish my actual permanent site.
Mike thats where i feel im ahead cause no one in my area seems to do anything above glazes that they call buffing/correction. My prices are right around theirs as typical details stand. Might be higher in some areas but i feel that weeds out the demographic i Dont want. Ive seen $60 full details.... ya that guy is swamped, with old mini vans im not interested in lol
Mike thats where i feel im ahead cause no one in my area seems to do anything above glazes that they call buffing/correction. My prices are right around theirs as typical details stand. Might be higher in some areas but i feel that weeds out the demographic i Dont want. Ive seen $60 full details.... ya that guy is swamped, with old mini vans im not interested in lol
Good for you man! I feel lucky when I get a customer that really wants an all out paint correction! I'm usually only detailing interiors, applying wax and every now and then claying and doing 1-steps/AIO.
I think this is a majority of detail businesses and probably most here on AGO fall in that category. The paint correction game is tough to crack when the income level is low in the area.