Too many products, too many choices

[Zombie]

A question to the more experienced detailers:

How do you get started with products as a detailer? I'm specifically referring to liquids (not tools) that are used in paint correction. (Swirl and defect removal, no waxes or protectants)

Assuming you pick a brand, there are literally too many products to choose from. Maguiers has 50 liquids, Griots has a bunch, Blackfire causes whiplash, and the Chemical Guys website causes my IQ to drop 10 points every time I look at all those choices.

While I understand the need for using the proper tools, this is information overload.

To use a sandpaper analogy, there are different grits, and some are better for woods vs metal or paint. I get that. I also understand that rotary spins, DA has dual action, Flex has a direct forced drive etc... Different tools have different results.

But in the liquid department, the options are so overwhelming, there's no simple solution that I can see. The same thing applies to waxes. The same thing applies to paint sealers. There are so many choices, how are you supposed to know where to start? Assume that you finally pick a swirl remover... great...now you get to start over back inside the whirlwind as you pick a wax, a tire cleaner, a glass cleaner, a paint protector... At this point, if I was to purchase something, I'm not even sure I could find it again. (Was that product x #104, #105, or was it #401 or #501? Or was it #101/503-18A?)

Is one brand REALLY better than another? They all claim to have the diminishing abrasive polish trait, so the more you use it, the more it breaks down, and the better it polishes. Can you pick one brand and use it without feeling buyers remorse that while Maguiers has a cool black brand, the Chemical Guys might have an upper edge on them as the underdog who really made a better product? I bought product X, but at the end of the day, Mike Phillips is going to come haunt me in my sleep: "Hey guy, I hate to tell you this, but you are only getting 90% of what you paid for. You bought the wrong product."

In my mind and in simple terms there would be less options:

1. Your paint is horrid. Oxidized and a public restroom for birds. Use product x which has aggressive grit
2. Your paint is swirled. Most people think your car is great, but if you happen to have a battery powered piece of sunshine in your pocket, you would see the scratches and swirls. Use a swirl remover.
3. Super shine. This is what your car dreams about when it imagines shiny paint.

While I can safely navigate to those sections (generically) within one brand, once there, they offer tons of options at each level. Simply reading product descriptions is information overload.

I understand that some paints are softer than others, or harder to remove, but physics is still in play here. Soft paint, hard paint, big scratches, little scratches... at the end of the day, it all comes down to abrasive ability to remove material. Right?

I'm about to be someone's customer. I have money to spend, a desire to buy, and a car that is desperate for me to save it. The problem is, I don't want to look through and purchase literally 500 different options that all claim to be unique so I can "dial in the correct system for my car's unique finish". They can't be that different.

Assume I'm wrong and there really are 500 variations of liquid that will make a car shine like magic...

Where do you start?

 

[AutowerxDetailing]

Just a quick question... Are you wanting to do this as a business or just grab some supplies for your personal ride(s)?

 

[A-train]

When you first get introduced to all these products to say its overwhelming is an understatement.
A lot of your decision should be based on what you need out of a product. For example is you are just maintaining your personal vehicle and its already in good shape then you probably don't need a heavy cut compound. You would more than likely be fine with a good polish. If you do want a full line there are some pretty big players in the game that you won't to wrong with.
Public opinion will vary and everyone with give you their own two cents on what they prefer and works for them.
I will only list ones I have tried that I feel warrant a recommendation:
Menzerna
Meguiars 105 & 205
Optimum Polish and Compound II
3m

All in One polishes:
Klasse AIO
Optimum GPS
Dodo juice lime prime lite

Another suggestion would be to read reviews and look at some of the write-ups and see what products guys are using and how they perform and the results received.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

 

[Setec Astronomy]

the Chemical Guys website causes my IQ to drop 10 points every time I look at all those choices.

Yeah, me too, I used to be a rocket scientist, now I'm unemployed.

To use a sandpaper analogy, there are different grits, and some are better for woods vs metal or paint. I get that.

Right, usually each line has coarse, medium, fine polishes, and then maybe some that overlap each other. And different mfrs use different abrasive types, different carriers, to complete your analogy of silicon carbide vs. aluminum oxide vs. garnet for sandpaper.

But in the liquid department, the options are so overwhelming, there's no simple solution that I can see. The same thing applies to waxes. The same thing applies to paint sealers. There are so many choices, how are you supposed to know where to start?

When you said Meguiar's has 50 products, you have to realize they serve different markets and niches, from consumer to body shop to detail shop etc., and they generally have more than one series of products in each market. But we'll decode this a little for you.

Is one brand REALLY better than another? They all claim to have the diminishing abrasive polish trait, so the more you use it, the more it breaks down, and the better it polishes.

Actually today the abrasives fall into two camps, the traditional diminishing abrasive (or DAT, Diminishing Abrasive Technology), and the newer, non-diminishing SMAT (Super Micro Abrasive Technology). SMAT uses really small, really sharp abrasive particles, so they are able to cut well without making the deep "scratches" that a large particle in a DAT polish would. In the sandpaper analogy, think of it like 400 grit screen cloth, with diamond abrasive. What if you could get 400 paper to cut like an SOB and never clog and never get dull? Instead of starting at 60 and working up to 400, you'd just use the 400 for everything...that's what SMAT does for you.

The other advantage of SMAT, is since you don't have to break down the polish into it's finest form (by diminishing the abrasive), you simply buff until you get the results you want (or until the polish has dried out and has to be refreshed), rather than having to go through the "cycle" of the DAT polish, where if you stop too soon you don't get the full effect of the abrasive.

The only SMAT polishes I know of are Meguiar's M105/205, Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish, Meguiar's D300 and D301, and the Optimum Polishes, both paste and spray. The Meguiar's Ultimate series have less cut and more workability than 105/205 (mostly for 105).

As others have mentioned, Menzerna polishes compete with the SMAT polishes simply because of the excellence of their abrasive compounding skills, which is all they do. The Wolfgang polishes, and perhaps others, are based on Menzerna technology.

The great thing today about the myriad choices is there are so many great products it's hard to go wrong. If I were you I would narrow my selections down to these, in no particular order:

1. M105/205
2. UC/205
3. UC/UP
4. D300/D301
5. Optimum Compound/Polish
6. Optimum Hyper Compound/Hyper Polish (sprays)
7. Menzerna SIP/PO106FA
8. Wolfgang TSR/FG

And out of those, I'd recommend to a newb the Meguiars Microfiber DA system (which uses D300/301), you just need a cheap air compressor for blowing out the pads.

 

[BobbyG]

Personally, all of the products offered through Autogeek work very well. Many choose to stay within one line of product while others are all over the map using this and that.

All of the products work as described and while some may rave about a particular product others are disappointed. Variables beyond the manufactures control are likely the cause for disappointment, some of these are; improper technique, use, conditions, experience, etc and rarely the fault of the product.

To your point, there are enough products available through every manufacturer to make your head spin and your brain goes into overload...

I put together and it's just a sampling of products that address each of the areas mentioned. Several of these products can be substituted and play multiple rolls.

Find a product that works well for you and stick with it or occasionally do some experimenting and broaden your horizon...

Wash - Duragloss #901
Clay - Meguiar’s Clay
Compound - PG 1000 – PowerGloss Compound (POS34A)
Polish - PF 2500 – Power Finish Polish (PO203)
Finishing Polish - SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)
Sealant - Four Star Sealant
Wax - Collinite 845
Spray Wax -Optimum Spray Car Wax
Tire Cleaner - Meguiar's Super Degreaser
Tire Treatment - CarPro PERL
Trim - Ultima Tire and Trim Guard
Wheel Cleaner - PoorBoy's World Wheel Cleaner
Wheel Protectant -Optimum Opti-Coat 2.0
Glass Cleaner - Meguiar's Glass Cleaner
Glass Treatment - Aquapel
All Purpose Cleaner - Optimum Power Clean
Interior Protectant - Meguiar’s M40
Chrome & Stainless Steel - BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond Metal Acrylic Sealant

1-Step - Duragloss 501
Sealant -Duragloss 105 TPP
Duragloss 601 Bonding Agent

 

[Zombie]

Just a quick question... Are you wanting to do this as a business or just grab some supplies for your personal ride(s)?

I'm looking to do it as a business, but first I've got to get my mind around the options.

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I'm a logical thinker, so it helps me to know the choices and understand the differences so that I can make the right decision. However, if I really wanted to know what to use, I could use a different approach and just ask my wife. She somehow is always right. I wonder if that skill applies to picking products too?

 

[BobbyG]

I'm a logical thinker, so it helps me to know the choices and understand the differences so that I can make the right decision.

Something most of us do is try to over analyze every product and it's featured down to the smallest of detail attempting to determine which is the best. Don't fall into paralysis through analysis as even many of the over the counter Meguiar's and Mothers products work quite well...

 

[Zombie]

Something most of us do is try to over analyze every product and it's featured down to the smallest of detail attempting to determine which is the best. Don't fall into paralysis through analysis as even many of the over the counter Meguiar's and Mothers products work quite well...

I'm not wanting to over analyze. I'm just trying to get a clue. At this point, there's so many choices, you do have to read a lot of the descriptions to find some kind of information about what each one does, and there doesn't really seem to be any basis of comparison between them. Some talk about removing a specific grit, others use more vauge language like "polishes and removes swirls." That's a bit like saying a football player is fast. How fast? Really fast.

It doesn't have to be the best, but it does need to do the job I'm asking of it. When putting together a business however, I want to know if there is a specific product that can cut labor and get the job done in less time while still giving results that will satisfy a customer.

The original point of my post is to see if there is a basis of comparison, or some kind of framework to understand the different types of products available. On the AG home page, if you click the link: Shop by brand, there are 147 different brands that they represent. Granted some are plastic bottles, but there's a lot to look through.

For example, look just at one brand: Blackfire

These are the paint products (excluding wax and obvious cleaning titles)

1. Crystal Seal Paint Sealant
2. Duo
3. Fine Cut Aluminum Polish
4. Gloss Enhancing Polish
5. Microfiber Cleaner & Restorer
6. Heavy Cut Aluminum Compound
7. Scratch Resistant Clear Compound
8. Scratch Resistant Clear Finishing Polish
9. Total Polish & Seal
10. Wet Diamond Metal Acrylic Sealant
11. Wet Diamond Aluminum Show Polish
12. Wet Diamond Polymer Spray
13. Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection

Pick any one of 15 different vendors and they have a similar array of product offerings. What I take from this thread is that there are some different technologies that are available, and really do give different results, but in the end, personal preference becomes the biggest factor.

Menzerna has a nice chart which helps to make sense of their products, so that is helpful.

Thank you guys for sharing your insights. It is a great starting point to find out about all of the options available in this industry. I also appreciate your personal recommendations of the products that you use.

 

[Kinalyx]

I dont know if it made a difference, but my very first detail ever, i used the WG twins, and had no issues at all. I was overworking the product, basically to the point of it being completely dry on the paint, and still got the correction i needed, i also had no problem removing the residue.

Im sure the Menz polishes are great as well, but i really like that WG uses 2 products, similar to doing Megs 105/205(which i will be using for my next detail.

Shawn

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Pick any one of 15 different vendors and they have a similar array of product offerings. What I take from this thread is that there are some different technologies that are available, and really do give different results, but in the end, personal preference becomes the biggest factor.

Back in another life on another forum, we used to have a saying "process > product", meaning that you're understanding of the basics and your technique is more important than what brand or specific product you use. And it's even more true today, there are so many good products, you can get good results with any of them as long as you understand how to use them and what you're trying to accomplish.

You're right, there's a lot of personal preference, brand loyalty, hyperbole, spokesmanship, etc. that goes into selling detailing supplies. I think one of the least hyped, straight shooting brands is Optimum, followed perhaps by the Meg's professional products, which are painstakingly developed and and competently represented by Jason Rose and Mike Stoops when they stop by here.

 

[van185]

I started a business a year or so back and was in the same boat with all the diffferent products to choose from. I think that it's according to what your business will cater to mostly. If your looking at high end or your average everyday driver that wants their vehicle washed and waxed. I buy all my products by the gallon and use mostly all Meg's or Chemical Guys stuff. Some of my favorite products that I use in almost every detail are: Meg's APC, CG's Honeydew wash, CG's Blacklight, Meg's Hyperdressing, Poorboys Spray & Rinse, and either CG's XXX Wax or Pinnacle XMT 180. If I'm just doing a All In One product I use Blackfire Polish & Seal. With the Meg's APC and Hyperdressing, both products will dilute and a gallon will last a really long time. I have other products from mostly CG's for interior cleaning. I choose CG's mostly because of the reviews and the price by the gallon. I also really like the Poorboys line too. Great products and prices. Maybe that will help a little.