Typical Defect Depths

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dmayer

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Just wondering if it is possible to measure, and if it is, if anyone knows how deep typical defects are. I don't know if there is such a thing as 'typical' swirl depth or how you would measure it, but would be interested in any measurements that anyone knows of.

And, for those of you who have paint thickness gauges: Do you ever measure paint thickness before and after correction of 'typical' swirl marks? With a DA? With a rotary? Also, if you ever measure factory fresh clearcoat thicknesses before any corrections, do you keep any data of various manufacturer's clearcoat thicknesses?

I'm wondering if knowing the above details, i.e. swirl depths, factory clear coat thickness, and typical amount of clearcoat removed during correction, if one could take a guess at how many corrections could be done to a vehicle's paint before clearcoat failure would be reached.

I may be way out there in dreamland (didn't sleep much last night), but I was wondering how many corrections could be done to a paint job before clearcoat failure for a person without a thickness gauge. I would imagine there are large variations in clearcoat thickness so maybe this doesn't make sense, but I would appreciate any light that could be shed on the subject.

Thanks,
Doug
 
From Todd Helme on Sister Forum Autopia.com

How deep are typical paint defects?

"There is not such thing as a common paint defect, particularly as it relates to swirl marks and deeper marring. The depth of the marring is determined by how much pressure was applied to the object causing the marring, the type of object, and how resistant the paint is to marring (it's hardness). In general most swirl mark marring is microscopic in natural and is only visible because light refracts off the edge of the mark. It is not uncommon for these marks to only penetrate .05 mils (.00005) of an inch or less, meaning they can be removed multiple times with out comprising the paint's thickness. However some random isolated deeper scratches (RIDS) can easily penetrate from .1 mil to .5 inch thick. Any defect that you can feel by dragging your finger nail over the paint is likely 1 mil or more deep and should not be repaired from factory paint systems."
 
dmayer said:
Also, if you ever measure factory fresh clearcoat thicknesses before any corrections

I'm wondering...
if one could take a guess at how many corrections could be done to a vehicle's paint before clearcoat failure would be reached.

I was wondering how many corrections could be done to a paint job before clearcoat failure for a person without a thickness gauge.
Click to expand...
Just as long as no more than the paint suppliers'/OEM-paint engineers' recommended:
0.3-0.5 mils (7.62-12.7 microns) of the ClearCoat is ever removed...Keep on a buffing!

Hard to do without keeping an accurate, running-record of a vehicle's detailing-history...And that's one area that an EPTG is at least worth its weight in CC-slurry, IMHO.

Bob
 
Good information, thanks gentlemen.

The part about rids from .1 mil to .5 inch though is pretty deep top end! Definitely have to do some serious buffing to get that out! ha
 
Good to know this stuff! I've always been curious about it.

So does this mean, you could use lets say an aio or maybe m205 to remove light swirls multiple times a year without abrading away too much paint?
 
JACdetailing said:
Good to know this stuff! I've always been curious about it.

So does this mean, you could use lets say an aio or maybe m205 to remove light swirls multiple times a year without abrading away too much paint?
Click to expand...

AIO or M205 using a white pad to your hearts content.

The compounding step is what you have to watch.

Mike.Phillips did a Thread somewhere that measured each step of sanding, compounding and polishing. I was unable to locate it.
 
allenk4 said:
AIO or M205 using a white pad to your hearts content.

The compounding step is what you have to watch.

Mike.Phillips did a Thread somewhere that measured each step of sanding, compounding and polishing. I was unable to locate it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input as well as trying to find the post. I'll do some looking for it as well as I'm curious to see it
 
These might help.. :props:


Layer03.jpg



Layers.jpg
 
Bobby, Thank you for attaching those charts/pictures. Those could be a very good visual aid to help customers understand paint and compounding/polishing. I'm sure most here have dealt with customers that want you to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!!t. They want all of those "Scratches" removed. Especially the ones that show the metal and rust.
Thanks again
 
It took me a while, but I have learned to live w/ some of the RIDS.
 
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