Ultra fine polish vs cleaner every 3 months before wax safe for clear coat?

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BlueGT

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May seem beat to death, but...I've read every post I can on this topic and wanted a few more opinions.

To start with, after my research on this forum, I've concluded that, unless I'm using an AIO, I will use either a paint cleanser ("chemical only") or very mild polish before each sealant application.

Currently I have S100 paint cleanser (supposed to be the same as P21s gloss enhancing paint cleanser) and Meguiars Ultimate Polish. I could of course buy something even a bit finer cut, but I believe M205 is pretty mild.

So the main topic:

I've read opinions by several knowledgable forum posters indicating that basically state: if you're going to go through the trouble of applying something before a sealant to cleanse the paint, why not use a fine or ultra fine cut polish as it will also correct very minor defects. I definitely see their point.

My concern: for maximum protection of the clear coat, wouldn't something essentially non-abrasive such as P21s be ideal? I'm talking about the case where there are either no defects or defects minor enough that you don't really notice. Or perhaps if there are defects that bother you, but not enough to risk thinning the clear coat.

My plan is to wax/seal about every 3 months or so. Maybe I am being too careful with my clear coat?? It's a 2014 mustang if that helps, as I'm not sure if this is soft/medium/hard paint. Anybody know if I could polish 4x/year for 10 years with a fine or ultra fine cut polish without ill effects on the clear coat? I currently only apply by hand with meguiars hand polishing foam pads.

Thoughts?

Thanks everyone!:xyxthumbs:
 
I found AIO's to be pointless or for lazy people a few short months ago but I was proven wrong. I now find their uses most valuable, using it as a one step for looked after finishes, using it as a paint cleanser to top up a new lsp, using it as a jeweling polish after compounding and before lsp etc. AG SRP or Meguiars Cleaner Wax are my favourites and I can't do without them. Thanks to the advice of Mike Phillips and the rest of this forum I now look further than my nose.
 
First off (IME), you will not be thinning your clearcoat anything substantial with a finishing polish and a DA polisher. I doubt it would even register a difference checking with a high quality paint depth gauge. You will remove more paint compounding the car once, than polishing the paint with an ultra finishing polish, pad and DA polisher 10/15 times in my opinion.

Yes , you can polish 3/4 times a year with an ultra finishing polish. but it would be more ideal to only use it when called for.

The reason (IMO an IME) to use a fine or ultra fine polish over a chemical paint cleaner in most cases (and especially if the car is parked outdoors) is because a light abrasive polish will clear up the paint AND make it glossy. Paint tends to get very very light etching and cloudiness from all sorts of environmental exposure. leafs landing on the car, light rain drying on its own, sap, whatever is falling with some of the nasty chemical rain lately, and any sort of fallout. This stuff leaves light etching. You also may leave some faint marring on the car from washing, drying and wiping down the car often.

A chemical paint cleaner will clean and shine up the paint. They are very effective, and also remove a lot of embedded dirt. But you will be shining up ON TOP of all the stuff I just discussed.
If you use a really fine polish you will get all the benefits of the chemical paint cleaner, PLUS clarity to the paint. You will remove all the light etching and cloudiness to the paint while also really bringing out the gloss. Ideally with clearcoat paint you should be aiming for gloss AND clarity. Not just one or the other.

For example, I keep my car very well kept and do my best to avoid as much marring/scratching and swirlmarks as possible. So rarely do I have to cut into the paint for correction. I will typically really cut into the paint maybe once every 2 years or so. In that meantime the paint does get (very slightly) cloudy and etched in some places. But even if it does not, I routinely polish the paint twice a year with Menzerna SF4000 and an orange light cutting pad. My specific paint reacts VERY well to this combo. And I can even remove some decent swirls and light scratchs with this process. And the clarity and gloss this combo leaves behind is on par with SF4000 and a finishing pad. I cant even tell the difference.

Im not a big fan of coatings for this very specific reason. you paint is pretty sensitive to the environment regardless of what its sealed or coated with. I will be polishing every 6 months regardless so I find no reason to apply something that lasts 2 years or longer. I also find that most every coating I have tried is even MORE sensitive to water spots than most wax's and sealants. something like opti-coat reminds me of clear bra (which I hate), if standing water is left on it, you better get it off ASAP !
 
What sealant are you using that only lasts 3 months?

I typically get 5-6 months out if WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant with weekly washings

After 6 months, I have typically accumulated enough paint defects that a light polish is "Required"
 
allenk4 said:
What sealant are you using that only lasts 3 months?

I typically get 5-6 months out if WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant with weekly washings

After 6 months, I have typically accumulated enough paint defects that a light polish is "Required"
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So far I've used Meguiars ultimate liquid wax and optimum car wax. I have collinite 845 that I haven't tried yet.

The Meguiars and Optimum may be lasting more than 3 months, but I've been putting on a new coat of sealant about every 3 months so I've not done a true durability test. Both of these did seem to be beading some when I re-sealed.
 
Is this for a daily driver?

I wouldn't consider those products sealants, either. They're a hybrid wax.

Collinite will last longer than Meg's and Opt., and sealants will last even longer.

I would try something the lasts longer that way you don't have to polish every three months, thinning away at CC.
 
KMdef9 said:
Is this for a daily driver?

I wouldn't consider those products sealants, either. They're a hybrid wax.

Collinite will last longer than Meg's and Opt., and sealants will last even longer.

I would try something the lasts longer that way you don't have to polish every three months, thinning away at CC.
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Yes, daily driver.

My plan at this time is to polish 1-2x/year.
I've already compounded once with Meguiars ultimate compound, and from what I've read, hopefully that is the only time I will compound this car.

Plan to wax/seal about every 4 months or so.

As far as using a sealant that lasts longer...
I believe collinite is already one of the longer lasting LSPs, correct? I've read some comments that 2 coats can last 5-6 months or more.

The meguiars ultimate wax is something that, for now, I'll be using when I do a full detail as I already have the ultimate polish so I know these will be compatible with each other.

When not polishing, I have S100 (P21s) paintwork cleaner to clean with little to no abrasive action prior to using collinite or optimum car wax, or whichever LSP I buy next.

Which longer lasting LSPs were you thinking of?
Any that are still reasonably priced and not much above $20?
 
You don't need 2 coats of 845. Spread using your polisher and a wax pad.


Sonax Polymer Net Shield is close to 20. That bottle of 845 will last a long time though.
 
BlueGT said:
My plan is to wax/seal about every 3 months or so. Maybe I am being too careful with my clear coat?? It's a 2014 mustang if that helps, as I'm not sure if this is soft/medium/hard paint. Anybody know if I could polish 4x/year for 10 years with a fine or ultra fine cut polish without ill effects on the clear coat? I currently only apply by hand with meguiars hand polishing foam pads.

Thoughts?

Thanks everyone!:xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

Well, IMHO your question boils down to whether or not a finishing polish or pre-wax cleaner are interchangeable. I can see people being too careful with their clearcoat, but as the Pope says, "Who am I to judge?". Here is what goes through my mind anytime I get into this debate with myself:

  1. AIO's leave a layer of protection so if you are going with a sealant as your LSP consider the impact and synergistic compatibility between them.
  2. How much does Mike P's "least aggressive" and "test spot" guiding principles apply here?
  3. YOUR technique and YOUR product/pad combination on YOUR paint are to be considered. Also, let's not forget YOUR shelving space to accommodate an inventory.
  4. Since you are applying by hand there is probably not much difference between a finishing polish or a pre-wax cleaner - all other things being equal. You need to determine within the context of your maintenance schedule how much abrasives you want to use throughout the year.
  5. Some pre-wax cleaners have fillers in them, so if you have this type of product that may help hide some swirling; whereas finishing polishes will not have them. The effect on sealant durability (when using fillers) can be theorized and estimated but only real-world experience will give you the information you need to determine whether fillers have a place in your plan.
  6. If you are comparing a pre-wax cleaner w/o fillers but with abrasives and a pure finishing polish then what you are comparing is an ultra fine finishing polish with a finishing polish. Decide from there.
  7. If you are comparing a pre-wax cleaner w/ chemical cleaners then your decision rests on whether or not you want or need to abrade the paint in your plan.
  8. Some pre-wax cleaners have chemical and abrasive cleaners... toss-up here where you go. ;-)
 
OP, I don't know where you are located, but if you have a winter season, I would consider just a gloss enhancing polish in the fall before you seal for winter with 845. The GEP will fill minor imperfections and will have little to no abrasive. Then use a light-med polish in the spring to correct the swirl marks that accumulated over 12 months (M205, Ult Polish, PF2500/SF4000, etc.). You should be able to get at least 5-6 months protection from 845...it lasts the whole winter for me.

After doing this a few years, I just came to the conclusion that I don't need my paint perfect over the winter, my focus is protection for that time period.

So for me: "fill" any minor imperfections in the fall with GEP, and "correct" minor imperfections in the spring.
 
There are car-care products manufacturers that say polishes...
including ultra-fine polishes... are also paint-cleaners.

I agree with that assessment; and terminology.


Bob
 
After doing a preliminary correction, you should never need anything other than a very light polish to remove minor cob-webbing and/or surface dulling. With the right final polish and & pad, you can polish your car several dozen times before even thinking twice about harming the finish.
 
Compounding with a rotary and wool pad is not comparable to a pad on a DA, even if using the same compound.

The rotary is going to cut deeper.

It's possible light polishing every 6 months might possibly piling the paint beyond no polishing. Removing small fissures in the paint where contaminants take hold might be analogous with drilling a hole in metal at the end of a crack to keep the crack from spreading. Drummers often do this with cymbals.
 
wdmaccord said:
OP, I don't know where you are located, but if you have a winter season, I would consider just a gloss enhancing polish in the fall before you seal for winter with 845. The GEP will fill minor imperfections and will have little to no abrasive. Then use a light-med polish in the spring to correct the swirl marks that accumulated over 12 months (M205, Ult Polish, PF2500/SF4000, etc.). You should be able to get at least 5-6 months protection from 845...it lasts the whole winter for me.

After doing this a few years, I just came to the conclusion that I don't need my paint perfect over the winter, my focus is protection for that time period.

So for me: "fill" any minor imperfections in the fall with GEP, and "correct" minor imperfections in the spring.
Click to expand...

This would be my recommendation and it's very similar to what I do.

Instead of GEP, I've used Prima Amigo or Poorboy's Pro Polish in the fall to clean things up a bit before the Winter LSP application. I've also used Poorboys Blackhole. It's a great glaze and looked amazing, but I probably won't use it in this way again due to it's lack of cleaning ability.

I agree on the 845. I've gone through six months of nasty winter just fine with a single coat. I doubled up this year just to make sure I had even coverage, not because I thought a second layer was really needed.
 
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