"Under Utilizing" your detail products?

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Krwtek1

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Hello,
I have been cleaning up cars as a productive hobby for about 10 years now. I've run into my share of beat down daily drivers and prized possession hot rods that I have always been able to correct and make stand tall. While I am only a hobbyist, I take pride in my work.

My issue lies with my personal vehicle. It's a one year old black Silverado. I am it's second owner and am dealing with the typical "black" vehicle spiderwebbing and a few RIDS. I noticed the blemishes after the dealerships quick detail wore off.... I have made two attempts at correcting the issues over the last two months.

Attempt one was using Mothers 3 step process. Polish, glaze, carnauba wax. Fail.... The polish was almost un usable. It instantly clung to the paints surface and dried. Little to no working time at all. Removal was similar to removing tooth paste from a bathroom mirror. The glaze was similar but not as severe. The wax went on and came off great but left a oily haze behind. I let the truck sit overnight and removed the residual residue in the morning, by lunch it was reappearing. I washed the truck that evening and it finally went away. Never the less I was still unhappy with the end result of a "cover up" job.

My second attempt was about a month ago. Seemingly failed... I used S.C.G. Beyond Clay Polish, Nano Seal, Bearier Reef Carnuba, and Nano Glaze. I used my PC to do all the work, used test areas to select pad and technique, and went at it. It turned out great, all products did there job and the truck had a superior smooth, deep gloss, seemingly blemish free finish for a few washes. After a month the spider webbing began showing through and the RIDS reappeared in there original locations.

Admittedly I am attempting to use as light of products as possible to achieve the intends results. I believe that I may be cautiously under utilizing my machines and products. I demand perfection but seem to be waiting time taking baby steps towards the end results. I would like to make one more successful attempt at correcting my paint issues and have the results last. I would love to be able to correct the paint to the point of only needing to reapply the sealer/ wax steps every month or so to keep the paint looking good and protected. What are your thoughts? Is this achievable? If so what products should I look into? Should I not be so concerned about being overly gentle with my own vehicle since I have never questioned my ability or skill level on others vehicles? I guess my main concern is that all this "working" the paint will shorten its lifespan.
 
Your probably going to have to use a compound an polish to get rid of them. All the glazes are doing is masking the defects until the glaze wears off.
 
What compounds/ pads do you recommend? I would like to put a dedicated supply of products that I can use for my truck.
 
I hate to tell you this, but the products you are using are a waste of time IMHO. Since you have a PC, you have the correct tool to remove the defects and not cover them up. You are putting yourself through lengthy multiple steps using a DA with products primarily meant to be used by hand. If your concern is about paint thickness, that is something you are going to have to get over, as it's well known removing normal defects periodically over a vehicles lifetime will not adversely affect your paint system. The correct (and best) idea is to remove defects getting the vehicle as perfect as possible, then use the correct wash techniques as not to reinstall them.

Your looking for advice right? My advice:

1. Skip the Pep Boy's products. Detailing (especially machine polishing with a PC) takes A LOT of your valuable time. You have now done this procedure twice in a short period of time and have yet to achieve desired results. I'm not sure if your using these products because they are perceived as costing less money, but how much is your time worth? Doing a "show car" multiple step correction on a PC will likely take multiple days, if your using the correct products and procedures and maximizing the machines potential. You only want to have to do it once, not over and over again because your tying to save a few dollars on products.

2. Get some products know to remove defects, not hide them. I would recommend obtaining some top quality pads, polishes, and LSPs from AG. There are numerous pad / polish combos that can easily fix this available, but just use the highest quality products you can obtain. You will have to decide what products are right for you, as they may not be the products that are right for me.

3 Do it right one more time. Plan for several days of work. A PC can be a a VERY POWERFUL paint correction tool, however, the correct process is very slow and very safe. If you do the process correctly using high quality products, the results will be stunning, especially on black. The vehicle should look better than new. You can achieve results like this with a PC and the correct accessories. If you need help with technique, study Mike Phillip's and Junkman's videos on YouTube.
 
I agree that I have seemingly wasted my time. I have had great success with Mothers systems on many types and colors of cars. But always used them with a high speed orbital. I purchased the PCM specifically for my vehicle due to its "safeness". It almost seemed as if the mothers products used as first had a bad reaction with whatever was previously used on my truck at the dealer. My second attempt was using products that I was turned onto by a few friends...

I plan on picking up a bottle of 205 or the menservants products for correction along with some LCD pads. Any suggestions on which LSP's? The last thing I want to do is get incompatible products.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that you are dealing with high solids paint (very hard) on your newer GM truck. You'll want a compound designed for use on high solids paints. If you select a Menzerna compound that is designed for use with Ceramiclear paint, you'll be heading in the right direction. Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #105 and #205 also work well with high solids paints. You can no doubt find some good compounds and polishes at a body shop supply that are geared toward high solids paints, but a lot of the sales guys at such places have no clue about anything that they sell as they're not detailers. The just stock what their customers ask for. I'd stick to AG for getting the right products for your needs.
 
swanicyouth said:
I hate to tell you this, but the products you are using are a waste of time IMHO. Since you have a PC, you have the correct tool to remove the defects and not cover them up. You are putting yourself through lengthy multiple steps using a DA with products primarily meant to be used by hand. If your concern is about paint thickness, that is something you are going to have to get over, as it's well known removing normal defects periodically over a vehicles lifetime will not adversely affect your paint system. The correct (and best) idea is to remove defects getting the vehicle as perfect as possible, then use the correct wash techniques as not to reinstall them.

Your looking for advice right? My advice:

1. Skip the Pep Boy's products. Detailing (especially machine polishing with a PC) takes A LOT of your valuable time. You have now done this procedure twice in a short period of time and have yet to achieve desired results. I'm not sure if your using these products because they are perceived as costing less money, but how much is your time worth? Doing a "show car" multiple step correction on a PC will likely take multiple days, if your using the correct products and procedures and maximizing the machines potential. You only want to have to do it once, not over and over again because your tying to save a few dollars on products.

2. Get some products know to remove defects, not hide them. I would recommend obtaining some top quality pads, polishes, and LSPs from AG. There are numerous pad / polish combos that can easily fix this available, but just use the highest quality products you can obtain. You will have to decide what products are right for you, as they may not be the products that are right for me.

3 Do it right one more time. Plan for several days of work. A PC can be a a VERY POWERFUL paint correction tool, however, the correct process is very slow and very safe. If you do the process correctly using high quality products, the results will be stunning, especially on black. The vehicle should look better than new. You can achieve results like this with a PC and the correct accessories. If you need help with technique, study Mike Phillip's and Junkman's videos on YouTube.
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tuscarora dave said:
One thing to keep in mind is that you are dealing with high solids paint (very hard) on your newer GM truck. You'll want a compound designed for use on high solids paints. If you select a Menzerna compound that is designed for use with Ceramiclear paint, you'll be heading in the right direction. Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #105 and #205 also work well with high solids paints. You can no doubt find some good compounds and polishes at a body shop supply that are geared toward high solids paints, but a lot of the sales guys at such places have no clue about anything that they sell as they're not detailers. The just stock what their customers ask for. I'd stick to AG for getting the right products for your needs.
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Stellar advice from both of these gentlemen. I would add use a Surbuff pad for cutting with the M105 and you should obtain the results you seek. Follow that up with a medium pad (white LCC, etc) with M205 and your DA and you'll be sick with delight. Post pics and let us know how it goes for you.
 
I can get 105 and 205 locally. The pads you mentioned I will order from this site. What about finishing steps? Any products highly recommended for dark colored cars?
 
Krwtek1 said:
I can get 105 and 205 locally. The pads you mentioned I will order from this site. What about finishing steps? Any products highly recommended for dark colored cars?
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You're dealing with hard paint. The 205 with a white pad will finish down well. You could also order an even finer pad (black LCC) and do one more run with your 205. 205 finishes down extremely well. Some will suggest Menz 85rd, but unless you're doing a show car, IMO it's unneccessary.
 
I have been well pleased with the Klasse AIO and Klasse high gloss sealant on dark colors. The sealant is somewhat tricky, but read the instructions in the forum postings. The learning curve is short, but apply thin. The gloss lasts for months and makes washing a breeze.
 
So I am understanding this correctly I should skip 105 and use 205 in two separate apps starting with a med cut pad and second with a finishing pad? Or is the two step 205 after the 105? Sorry slightly confused by richy's post. It seems like a good sealant and or wax is all I will need to finish this process up. I've heard great things about 845 but not sure if its for me. I've had good luck using a sealant then wax to finish off. I might just stick with this route
 
Krwtek1 said:
So I am understanding this correctly I should skip 105 and use 205 in two separate apps starting with a med cut pad and second with a finishing pad? Or is the two step 205 after the 105? Sorry slightly confused by richy's post. It seems like a good sealant and or wax is all I will need to finish this process up. I've heard great things about 845 but not sure if its for me. I've had good luck using a sealant then wax to finish off. I might just stick with this route
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105 first followed by 205 and then again only if needed, which you probably won't, but, hey, it's your time and your paint to make as nice as you want.
 
Ok thanks! I will be picking up the 105, 205, and pads this week. I will make sure to post before and after photos. I'm still undecided on my sealant and wax choices. Soo many to choose from. Id like to get away from the Mothers products I have been using.
 
Krwtek1 said:
Ok thanks! I will be picking up the 105, 205, and pads this week. I will make sure to post before and after photos. I'm still undecided on my sealant and wax choices. Soo many to choose from. Id like to get away from the Mothers products I have been using.
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after all the work of the correction youre looking at, id be leaning toward something on the more permanent paint sealant...OC 2.0 is a good choice and surprisingly user friendly if you follow the instructions and application videos you can find.

If youre a little scared of the permanent coating, look to WG DGPS. tremendous product that i found to have great durability when topped with a liquid carnuaba, and what a gloss it gave.
 
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