Using a Clay Bar On Paint Coatings?

[STI4Life06]

So this year I have been applying GTechniq CSL and EXO V3 to most of my customers cars. I have been super happy with the product and the feedback from my customers has been very positive. I had a few customers ask me if it is safe to use a mild clay bar or a fine NanoSkin clay pad as they have some contaminants on top of the coating. Does anyone know if this will shorten the life of the coating? My gut wants to say that it should be safe but I honestly do not know for sure and I don't see any posts regarding this.

I checked GTechniq's website but I don't see anything stating that you could or could not use a clay bar. I also sent the techs an email but have not heard from them after a few days.

 

[RippyD]

I suspect it likely will shorten the life of the coating to some extent. In my area with ~180 days of rain it's also required to keep up the water repellence. I've clayed my car with Cquartz UK twice in a year. It's brings the hydrophobicity back.

 

[zmcgovern45]

In theory, the act of claying a car is likely to create some sort of superficial marring as the particles being picked up by the clay bar are then rubbed against the surface of the vehicle. For this reason, many of us will only recommend mechanically decontaminating a vehicle if you intend to polish the surface afterwards. In the case of a coated vehicle, this is not recommended as polishing will certainly effect the coating and potentially remove it entirely.

For coated vehicles, the resistance to bonded contaminants is typically outstanding. In many cases, chemical decontamination is all that is needed to keep the surface clean and free of bonded particulates. Products like Iron X and Tar X, for instance, will remove bonded iron and tar from the vehicle without the need to rub the paint.

If claying is the only way, use a fine grade clay with ample lubrication.

 

[STI4Life06]

In theory, the act of claying a car is likely to create some sort of superficial marring as the particles being picked up by the clay bar are then rubbed against the surface of the vehicle. For this reason, many of us will only recommend mechanically decontaminating a vehicle if you intend to polish the surface afterwards. In the case of a coated vehicle, this is not recommended as polishing will certainly effect the coating and potentially remove it entirely.

For coated vehicles, the resistance to bonded contaminants is typically outstanding. In many cases, chemical decontamination is all that is needed to keep the surface clean and free of bonded particulates. Products like Iron X and Tar X, for instance, will remove bonded iron and tar from the vehicle without the need to rub the paint.

If claying is the only way, use a fine grade clay with ample lubrication.

Excellent, That was going to be my next question if claying could possibly shorten the life of the coating. "Can I decontaminate using IronX" Guess the answer to that is yes. Thanks!

 

[The Guz]

I just saw another manufacture come out with another non-abrasive clay bar intended for coatings. Can't say the name here but that seems like a good alternative as well.

A chemical decon does work.

 

[zmcgovern45]

Excellent, That was going to be my next question if claying could possibly shorten the life of the coating. "Can I decontaminate using IronX" Guess the answer to that is yes. Thanks!

Absolutely... CarPro recommends the use of IronX for coating maintenance.

 

[zmcgovern45]

I just saw another manufacture come out with another non-abrasive clay bar intended for coatings. Can't say the name here but that seems like a good alternative as well.

A chemical decon does work.

I had tested the 22ple clay (along with the other 2 products that were just announced) a couple of years ago. It was a nice product. Very soft and workable, but I still do not feel comfortable claying a car (especially a darker color that is already nearly perfect) if I am not going to be polishing it afterwards.

 

[The Guz]

I had tested the 22ple clay (along with the other 2 products that were just announced) a couple of years ago. It was a nice product. Very soft and workable, but I still do not feel comfortable claying a car (especially a darker color that is already nearly perfect) if I am not going to be polishing it afterwards.

I was trying to avoid saying a name for a product not sold the AGO but you said it lol. Thanks for the feedback on this clay bar. It looks and sounds interesting.

 

[Klasse Act]

FWIW I completely agree about chemical decon on a coated car, no doubt about it. Spray it on, let it dwell and rinse away....BAM! I think some people think that because its strong enough to remove the embedded contaminants and turn that red/purple color that its going to hurt the coating and I too used to be in this camp but not anymore!

 

[Patman22]

What if one were to use a super fine clay mitt instead?

 

[MattPersman]

Any mechanical rubbing against any LSP will not increase the level of coating or LSP there. Something along the lines of what Mike says. What’s the opposite of not increase?

So yes any running in theory could take away some or any LSP It’s abrasion even if at a very low level


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[zmcgovern45]

What if one were to use a super fine clay mitt instead?

I’ve personally found clay mitts / sponges / towels to be considerably more aggressive that traditional clay. I would not use one on a vehicle that will not be polished afterwards.

 

[WillSports3]

I only use a claymitt if I'm going to polish afterwards since I don't care about any new marring. On my costed car, I've used mothers clay bars with a good lubricant, like mckees n913 rinse less wash and I've used car pro trix. I found the results to be exactly the same on my coated car.

 

[Patman22]

I’ve personally found clay mitts / sponges / towels to be considerably more aggressive that traditional clay. I would not use one on a vehicle that will not be polished afterwards.

Even with the super fine mitt?

 

[zmcgovern45]

Even with the super fine mitt?

I have used fine and medium mitts & towels... I honestly was not aware there was a "super fine" option. However, I have noticed marring with both the fine and medium mitts when vehicles are contaminated.... but as I mentioned above, on my personal coated vehicles, a chemical decon is almost always the only thing that is needed to remove bonded particles.

 

[RippyD]

This is part of the reason I'm on the fence with coatings. Freeway driving in rain for 6-7 months means a lot of embedded stuff. IronX and Reset help. At some point the sheeting action is gone until I use clay. So either lose most of the benefit of a coating (lotus effect) or clay it. I'll do some testing in Jan or Feb after my coated car has a few months of driving in the rain.

 

[Patman22]

I feel I'm in the same boat too, I love the idea of the self cleaning features of a coating, but it just seems like ceramics might be a better fit for people that don't do any detailing on their cars whatsover as opposed to people like us that like to tinker a bit more. What I truly think is my ideal thing is finding a WOWA sealant that offers close to the same hydrophobic and self cleaning properties of a coating (as well as protection from the elements of course) but then if I need to clay the finish at some point (or just want to put on a fresh layer of protection) it's an easier process.

 

[zmcgovern45]

The true benefit of the coating, even after the initial hydrophobic properties may have disappeared, is the added barrier of protection between the elements and your paint. No traditional wax or sealant will provide a measurably thick and durable layer like a coating can. This is what makes coatings particularly useful for daily driven vehicles as the physical barrier is most needed on cars that see a lot of use in all environments.

If you need to clay on top of the coating, go for it. If you need to use toppers to enhance water behavior, go for it. There is no one size fits all approach to caring for your vehicle... just do what works for you.

 

[RippyD]

Zack, always appreciate your input. Here's what I don't get: a coating that doesn't repel water very well is still providing protection. What protection, and how is it any better than a sealant? Fewer scratches in my paint?

If were to drive my coated car through the swirl-o-matic car wash 10 times, would it only scratch the coating or would it get to the paint as well? Either way I have to polish to remove them, so how would I know? Maybe I'm too skeptical, but at some point this looks like a "trust me, it's there and working" exercise. If I can't see it working, if I can't tell if the scratches are in the paint vs. the coating, how do I know?

I find the lack of hard data and demonstrable science shared by the coating companies frustrating. Not saying they don't work, because they do, but there appears to be some amount of snake oil involved as well.

 

[zmcgovern45]

Zack, always appreciate your input. Here's what I don't get: a coating that doesn't repel water very well is still providing protection. What protection, and how is it any better than a sealant? Fewer scratches in my paint?

Your clear coat does not repel water, yet we accept the fact that it provides protection against UV and environmental contaminants, correct? Same principle.

Regarding sealants and waxes, the same mystery is involved. We cannot see them. We do not know how long they last, but manufacturers tell us it is only a few weeks or months in most cases, so this is what we have to go on.

Water beading is not an indication of protection, only high surface tension. Scratch protection is not a major benefit of these nano coatings in my opinion.

If were to drive my coated car through the swirl-o-matic car wash 10 times, would the only scratches be in the coating, or would they get to the clear coat?

There is no way to know, but in theory because there is an additional micron or so of material, the scratches have penetrated less of the clear coat. If a scratch is 1.5 microns deep, an uncoated vehicle would lose 1.5 microns of clear to remove said defect, while a coated vehicle may only require you to remove 0.5 microns of clear to remove said defect. While we are talking at a microscopic level, it is still a considerable benefit in my opinion.

Either way I have to polish to remove them, so how would I know? It could just be that I'm overly skeptical, but at some point this start to look like a "trust me, it's there and working" exercise. If I can't see it working, if I can't tell if the scratches are in the paint vs. the coating?

When a coating is properly applied, it is more or less invisible, however many coatings on the market will actually darken the surface of the vehicle they are applied to. I have tested a section of my vehicle by coating only part of a panel, after which there was a distinct visible line between the coated and uncoated areas. This did not fade over the 1.5 year test. In another case, I left a small high spot on a portion of my vehicle for 3 years. It was unchanged throughout that time. That is enough data for me to say that the coatings are in fact in tact and still present despite whatever water behavior that area may exhibit.

There seems to be a lot of faith involved in coating performance. I find the lack of hard data and demonstrable science shared by the coating companies frustrating. Not saying they don't work, because they do, but there appears to be some amount of snake oil involved as well.

I encourage you to take it upon yourself to do your own testing. That is what I do, that is how I learn, that is the only way I felt comfortable making certain claims to my customers. It is a lot of fun