water reclamation for fixed location

[Red Man]

This question is for brick & mortar fixed location veteran shop owners....
(no mobile guys or shop at home garage guys because its easier to get away with when you're mobile or working from home)

Does anybody run a business where strict water runoff laws are enforced??
How do you control/ reclaim water runoff??

Financing out of pocket so budget is big issue. What do you guys recommend for water control on budget with strict local water laws enforced?


Not sure why i'm getting little to no responses on this issue but I know I can't be the only guy with this problem unless no one else here is doing business in California. Feed back please

Mike Phillips, the great, please feel free to weigh in on this subject?????

 

[CCC4me]

This question is for brick & mortar fixed location veteran shop owners....
(no mobile guys or shop at home garage guys because its easier to get away with when you're mobile or working from home)

Does anybody run a business where strict water runoff laws are enforced??
How do you control/ reclaim water runoff??

Financing out of pocket so budget is big issue. What do you guys recommend for water control on budget with strict local water laws enforced?


Not sure why i'm getting little to no responses on this issue but I know I can't be the only guy with this problem unless no one else here is doing business in California. Feed back please

Mike Phillips, the great, please feel free to weigh in on this subject?????

I just responded to your other thread, but I'll put it here as well. Very little works as well (especially given a budget) as fire hose filled with sand and divert runoff into vegetation or any other onsite retention system.

Don't forget about waterless washes--would save alot of trouble on all but the dirtiest cars!

 

[mathomf]

I am pretty sure you are not allowed to divert runoff into vegetation or any part of the ground. You have to do a complete water containment.

Interesting link Water containment, detailers and the EPA

Check with your states EPA office to be sure. They regulate federal and state EPA regulations.

 

[Red Man]

Thanks for responding. No vegetation outside, just an asphalt parking lot with many storm drains. My 1st idea is to get a wash mat from Chemical guys and wash indoors ( I don't want to deal with moving mat around too much & damage it, also worried about leaks from mat or splash water getting messy indoors).
My 2nd option is washing outdoors and purchasing storm drain covers (city officials probably not going to want water near storm drains because no real way of knowing if storm drains are 100% leak proof)

Last option is cheap vacu berm attachment to wet vac??

Can anybody out there help me with advice. My ears are wide open to any suggestions...

 

[215Detailing]

posted to your other post already be here it is again may help
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3DCzy-Rngo]Make your own Car wash mat. - YouTube[/video]

 

[Red Man]

I am pretty sure you are not allowed to divert runoff into vegetation or any part of the ground. You have to do a complete water containment.

Interesting link Water containment, detailers and the EPA

Check with your states EPA office to be sure. They regulate federal and state EPA regulations.

You are exactly right and considering im going to be a new opening business, I don't want to give them any reason for denying me to do business. I want to be responsible and legit with no worries. Last thing I want is to be put out of business before I can even begin my business. Also I plan to have signs because im on busy street, but just as signs will bring me business, they will also bring the authorities.
Any ideas on what I should do because im really leaning towards the car wash mat indoors...

thx for input mathomf

 

[Red Man]

I just responded to your other thread, but I'll put it here as well. Very little works as well (especially given a budget) as fire hose filled with sand and divert runoff into vegetation or any other onsite retention system.

Don't forget about waterless washes--would save alot of trouble on all but the dirtiest cars!

Not a waterless wash guy. Maybe to a vehicle that's not dirty to begin with, but that's rare & limits me. I don't want to have to turn clients away because their car is too dirty.

 

[mathomf]

Well if the shop has no floor drains then you would want a wash mat indoors. Even if you have floor drains inside more than likely they are not setup to handle water contamination. So again using a wash mat inside would be the best way to go.

The advantages of using the wash mat inside of course is you do not have to worry about what the weather is doing outside.

I think the biggest issue would be whether you are using a pressure washer or just a garden hose. I would think using a pressure washer inside would cause more over spray of water and if that bay was not separate from the rest of the shop it would eventually cause water damage and mold to the walls and parts of the shop so you would have to do something to prevent that from happening.

You are welcome.

 

[CCC4me]

Anything that evaporates off isn't running into the drain, so just damming the storm drains would work. Feel free to use the mat as it may well be the cleanest (not cheapest, though) option for you. Where are you going to dispose of the water?

 

[Red Man]

:xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs:

Well if the shop has no floor drains then you would want a wash mat indoors. Even if you have floor drains inside more than likely they are not setup to handle water contamination. So again using a wash mat inside would be the best way to go.

The advantages of using the wash mat inside of course is you do not have to worry about what the weather is doing outside.

I think the biggest issue would be whether you are using a pressure washer or just a garden hose. I would think using a pressure washer inside would cause more over spray of water and if that bay was not separate from the rest of the shop it would eventually cause water damage and mold to the walls and parts of the shop so you would have to do something to prevent that from happening.

You are welcome.

You got it. Exactly what I was thinking. I will be using a garden hose indoors. I think I will start off with wash mat indoors, and purchase storm drain covers later for limited outside washes in case of extremely oversized vehicles. My extended cargo van is 20 feet so it would barely fit on mat & would cause mess washing indoors on mat.

Thanks for your advice/ input

 

[mathomf]

Anything that evaporates off isn't running into the drain, so just damming the storm drains would work. Feel free to use the mat as it may well be the cleanest (not cheapest, though) option for you. Where are you going to dispose of the water?

This is incorrect because yes the water evaporates but heavy metals and the chemicals we use tend not to and then when it rains it is washed down into the storm drains again this leaves you open to being fined up to I do believe $10,000 a day every day you do this.

I commend you worldwidedetail for wanting to do this right. I believe it is very important for us to follow the regulations and laws.

Also by doing it properly you gain a great marketing tool to use against the competition who is not doing it. You can promote your business as being green and environmentally safe.

 

[02xtreme07SS]

Instead of dancing around the authorities and asking questions on this forum, I would suggest contacting the city to have your questions correctly answered. You're going to have to deal with them at some point, might as well get the info straight from the horses mouth before you run into a problem and attempt to claim ignorance of the law. Unless you find someone who is working specifically in San Jose, any answers here aren't going to be based on experience dealing with the local authorities.

San Jose is not car wash friendly in any way, shape, or form, business or otherwise so you're already going to be up against the authorities before you even start.

City of San Jose Planning Divisions Stormwater Management Home

Car Washes violate Environmental laws in San Jose - Watchdog Wire - California

San Jose halts student car washes unless rules about discharge into storm drains are met - San Jose Mercury News

 

[Red Man]

Anything that evaporates off isn't running into the drain, so just damming the storm drains would work. Feel free to use the mat as it may well be the cleanest (not cheapest, though) option for you. Where are you going to dispose of the water?

I was thinking the same about covering/ blocking the drain as well, however, authorities are strict here & think its more about showing you're responsible. They may critique the storm drain cover because how do you really know if its effective when its covered with water? No way to really check without removing it & then you are letting the water down drain. Could test it with clean water for authorities but then they'd probably consider what if I forget to cover drain on certain days. Authorities make this topic a bid issue so I think they will hassle me if it doesn't look professional ( and storm drain covers look like cheap desperate cheap resource).
And I will be using transfer pump to remove water from mat then discarding water in grassy area.

 

[CCC4me]

I am pretty sure you are not allowed to divert runoff into vegetation or any part of the ground. You have to do a complete water containment.

Interesting link Water containment, detailers and the EPA

Check with your states EPA office to be sure. They regulate federal and state EPA regulations.

As far as the EPA is concerned, you can discharge into dirt/vegetation. They only limit discharge into bodies of water:
Pressure Wash / Power Wash Discharges | Region 6 | US EPA

EPA certainly won't be monitoring our level of work anyways. The local municipalities will and may well have their own requirements in regard to groundwater (none here), so you are right on that front.

 

[Red Man]

Instead of dancing around the authorities and asking questions on this forum, I would suggest contacting the city to have your questions correctly answered. You're going to have to deal with them at some point, might as well get the info straight from the horses mouth before you run into a problem and attempt to claim ignorance of the law. Unless you find someone who is working specifically in San Jose, any answers here aren't going to be based on experience dealing with the local authorities.

San Jose is not car wash friendly in any way, shape, or form, business or otherwise so you're already going to be up against the authorities before you even start.

City of San Jose Planning Divisions Stormwater Management Home

Car Washes violate Environmental laws in San Jose - Watchdog Wire - California

San Jose halts student car washes unless rules about discharge into storm drains are met - San Jose Mercury News

Thanks for response & you are completely right. San Jose is not friendly but I guess I want to get business running & adapt (if necessary) to regulations than be turned down before starting. Also Im financing out of pocket so I need to start making money & adapt, rather than not being able to make a penny before I invest more than I already have. I was told by a experienced shop owner to start business and make the necessary changes rather that forking out a ton of money before you make any

 

[Red Man]

This is incorrect because yes the water evaporates but heavy metals and the chemicals we use tend not to and then when it rains it is washed down into the storm drains again this leaves you open to being fined up to I do believe $10,000 a day every day you do this.

I commend you worldwidedetail for wanting to do this right. I believe it is very important for us to follow the regulations and laws.

Also by doing it properly you gain a great marketing tool to use against the competition who is not doing it. You can promote your business as being green and environmentally safe.

They say great minds think alike..lol

Thanks for your input. I just needed a little reassurance that I was on the right track

 

[CCC4me]

This is incorrect because yes the water evaporates but heavy metals and the chemicals we use tend not to and then when it rains it is washed down into the storm drains again this leaves you open to being fined up to I do believe $10,000 a day every day you do this.

I commend you worldwidedetail for wanting to do this right. I believe it is very important for us to follow the regulations and laws.

Also by doing it properly you gain a great marketing tool to use against the competition who is not doing it. You can promote your business as being green and environmentally safe.

Heavy metals? What are you washing? I've (unfortunately) had to work on a Mercury or two before, but I'm not washing mercury.

The largest concern is what the chemicals are carrying vs. the chemicals themselves. An oil sock as part of the berm system will take care of that.

I too applaud the OP for trying to do it right. I'm just trying to offer him cheaper ways to stay in compliance. The mat setup will work well for him, though. He just needs to take the reclaimed effluent to a proper facility instead of dumping on grass if his local regs are that tight.