Wet/Damp Sanding & Buffing new paint job recommendations, please...

[rogman16]

Mike—

Getting close to color-sanding and buffing my newly painted ’73 Corvette… Painted with PPG DBC Black (base coat) and PPG 2021 (clear coat)…

Plan on using 1000 & 1500 grit hand, then moving to Trizact 3000 and 5000 using a 3m 20235 DA…

Now for buffing, I have both a Makita 9772 rotary and PC 7424, but I am not planning on using the PC, just using the Makita exclusively…

I was planning on using the 3M Perfect-it products for pads/compounds/polish… Here is the list/steps of what I’m thinking about using:

1) 3M 33279 Wool Pad/05706 White Foam Pad with 06085 Compound

2) 3M 05707 Black Foam Pad with 06064 Polish

3) 3M 05708 Blue Foam Pad with 06068 Ultra Polish

Questions:

Q1: Can I skip the wool pad and just go foam??? Pros/cons???

Q2: For steps 2/3 above, is the PC better than the Makita, or stick with Makita???

Q3: If I don’t use 3M products, what would you recommend???

Q4: Any issues jumping from 1500 to 3000 when wet/damp sanding??

Thanks much…

Rogman

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Sounds like a fun project, I really like the 1973 Corvette body styles...

What color did you paint it?

Questions:

Q1: Can I skip the wool pad and just go foam??? Pros/cons???

Historically, wool cutting pads tend to cut cooler and faster than foam cutting pads. Personal preference but be sure to monitor surface temperature anytime you're compounding with either pad. I did this constantly for the Nebraska AMX project

1969 AMX Wetsanding Videos - Nebraska Help in the Heartland Project


Using the method I write about here,


Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature

Q2: For steps 2/3 above, is the PC better than the Makita, or stick with Makita???

Personal preference based upon your "opinion", "experience" and skills. You can start World War III over the topic of using only a rotary buffer to finish out hologram free.


:laughing:

Q3: If I don’t use 3M products, what would you recommend???

3M makes great products, kind of sounds like you've done this before so if you're comfortable with 3M then stick with them...

Q4: Any issues jumping from 1500 to 3000 when wet/damp sanding??

Thanks much…

Rogman

There can be. The goal is to refine the depth of your sanding marks, that is to turn the depth of #1500 grit sanding marks into the depth of #3000 grit sanding marks and to do this you need to focus on the task at hand.

Probably the most important thing is to really do a good job of finishing out with the #3000 to ensure you've leveled the deeper #1500 scratches are you'll be fighting them during the compounding step.

Top Coat Hardness = Unknown Variable
The unknown factor that affects much of what you're going to attempt to do is the top coat hardness and the hardness of the paint, even a brand new paint job can and will affect how easy or how difficult it will be to both sand and buff the paint.

I try very hard to practice what I preach and this means doing a Test Spot on everything I buff out INCLUDING any wetsanding projects.

Fast forward in this FIRST video from the AMX wetsanding project to the 8:12 Time Mark and you can watch as I explain WHY we're going to do a test spot that includes all the steps of sanding, compounding and polishing the paint BEFORE we sand down the entire car.

1969 AMX - Wetsanding How To Video - Part 1 - 30 Minutes
[video=youtube_share;_i_rmKAUa1Y"]Helping in the Heartland - episode 1 - YouTube[/video]​

You can of course just dive in head first and sand down the entire car before you do any testing to dial in your "system" for removing your sanding marks, that's completely up to you.

I for one like to test first, and then move forward...



:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Is this your project?

Looks like a real sweet project...


How many coats of clear did you spray?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike—

Getting close to color-sanding and buffing my newly painted ’73 Corvette… Painted with PPG DBC Black (base coat) and PPG 2021 (clear coat)…

Where are you located?


I have a live broadcast using 3M products coming up in a few weeks...


Sign-up: 1965 Mustang GT Dampsand for a show car finish

I've invited our 3M Rep Dennis Povio to be my guest expert for this project, regardless of whether he can make it you're invited to attend or watch.

 

[rogman16]

Is this your project?

Looks like a real sweet project...


How many coats of clear did you spray?

Yepper, that is me Mike!!! I am in Las Vegas, NV... Actually the car is in Las Vegas and I'm stationed (active duty Air Force) in D.C. going to school for a year...

Color is black with three coats of chemically hardened urethane clear...

I have done this before, but was 25+ years ago when we sprayed laquer on all our corvette projects, and all we ever used at that time was wool buffer, compound and liquid ebony to finish up... So, I'm not stuck on 3m and just looking to capitalize on all the effectiveness and efficiency of the newer technology...

You have a great site here and I literally spent all weekend watching your videos and reading many posts... Right now, I'm leaning toward first buff after 5000 finishing sand will be wool with compound on the rotary... After sanding scratches are removed, will move to foam on PC to do last two steps of polish/seal...

Guessing either Meguiar's, Menzerna, Pinnacle for last two steps with CCS pads on the PC...

Thanks for your replies... I need to go watch the videos you sent me...

Rogman

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Yepper, that is me Mike!!! I am in Las Vegas, NV... Actually the car is in Las Vegas and I'm stationed (active duty Air Force) in D.C. going to school for a year...

Very cool project... what size engine is she going to have?

Color is black with three coats of chemically hardened urethane clear...

Sounds good. Every painter is different in their style and can spray light or heavy coats so as long as he knows you were going to sand and buff before he sprayed you should have plenty of material to work with...

I have done this before, but was 25+ years ago when we sprayed lacquer on all our corvette projects, and all we ever used at that time was wool buffer, compound and liquid ebony to finish up...

I've done all of the above and I'm glad to say there's very good products out for this today...

So, I'm not stuck on 3M and just looking to capitalize on all the effectiveness and efficiency of the newer technology...

3M is primarily knows as an abrasive company although they branch out into all markets with quality products. Their sandpapers, sanding discs, compounds and polishes are all top notch.

I'm not sure off hand if they make any polishes specifically designed and formulated for use with a dual action polisher. All of the pro products state on the label to use with a rotary buffer. I'll check with our 3M Rep as we're in communications for the upcoming Mustang project.

You have a great site here and I literally spent all weekend watching your videos and reading many posts...

Thank you. A good forum is both helpful and friendly, a person shouldn't have to fear getting into a flame war or seeking out so we do our best to run a professional forum here...

Right now, I'm leaning toward first buff after 5000 finishing sand will be wool with compound on the rotary...

That's how I would approach it. Even if you finish out at #3000 or #5000 grit the sanding marks are going to buff out fastest and more completely using wool pads and a compound. This job already takes a long time there's no need to make it take any longer using a less aggressive approach.

After sanding scratches are removed, will move to foam on PC to do last two steps of polish/seal...

I would actually stick with the rotary buffer for the first polishing step with a foam polishing pad and a foam pad polish. This is to make sure you remove any swirls left by the compound abrasives and the fibers of the wool cutting pad. How easy or difficult it is to remove these depends upon a lot of things including how hard you're pushing down on the rotary buffer while making your last passes during the compounding step.

Guessing either Meguiar's, Menzerna, Pinnacle for last two steps with CCS pads on the PC...

Any of the above for the last machine applied polishing step will ensure a hologram free finish the day you do the polishing and down the road.

Thanks for your replies... I need to go watch the videos you sent me...

Rogman

Keep up updated as I love these types of projects and myself and our forum members will help wherever we can...

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I am military on Nellis and work in a body shop if you need any help.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I am military on Nellis and work in a body shop if you need any help.

Ding Dang!


I'd take Mike up on his offer, he's up to date with everything we talk about on the forum, he'd be a real asset to the project.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[ken tuep]

I'm in DC on Andrews if you wanna brush up on your skills. I have plenty of different tools and product to try also. Including meguiars, 3m, and menzerna

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

 

[rogman16]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I am military on Nellis and work in a body shop if you need any help.

I'm in DC on Andrews if you wanna brush up on your skills. I have plenty of different tools and product to try also. Including meguiars, 3m, and menzerna

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

That's awesome guys... I'm flying back home (to Las Vegas) this Saturday... Plan is to get paint and clear (plus cut and buffed) on at least half of the car while I'm home...

My 2 biggest hurdles to this are:

1) Getting car and garage up to above 60 degrees when I plan to shoot... I'm going to insulate my garage door and figure a good way to get some heat in there...

2) Need to either buy or rent a bigger compressor... Don't have any 240V plugs in the garage, and my breaker box is completely full... So I either need to daisy chain two 115V compressors together (which is dangerous and what I really don't want to do) or get a gas powered air compressor...

Any suggestions would be appreciated...

Thanks much

Rogman

 

[ken tuep]

Do they have an auto hobby shop? Most bases I've been to have a Booth in them available to military, I've been using them for 10 years. Andrews afb recently closed there shop due to budget cuts. It was always $35 per day plus $10 to bake at Scott afb in Illinois. Good luck to ya.

If you need to borrow a good gun, I have satajet guns.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Mike—

Getting close to color-sanding and buffing my newly painted ’73 Corvette… Painted with PPG DBC Black (base coat) and PPG 2021 (clear coat)…

Plan on using 1000 & 1500 grit hand, then moving to Trizact 3000 and 5000 using a 3m 20235 DA…

Now for buffing, I have both a Makita 9772 rotary and PC 7424, but I am not planning on using the PC, just using the Makita exclusively…

I was planning on using the 3M Perfect-it products for pads/compounds/polish… Here is the list/steps of what I’m thinking about using:

1) 3M 33279 Wool Pad/05706 White Foam Pad with 06085 Compound

2) 3M 05707 Black Foam Pad with 06064 Polish

3) 3M 05708 Blue Foam Pad with 06068 Ultra Polish

Questions:

Q1: Can I skip the wool pad and just go foam??? Pros/cons???

Q2: For steps 2/3 above, is the PC better than the Makita, or stick with Makita???

Q3: If I don’t use 3M products, what would you recommend???

Q4: Any issues jumping from 1500 to 3000 when wet/damp sanding??

Thanks much…

Rogman

That's awesome guys... I'm flying back home (to Las Vegas) this Saturday... Plan is to get paint and clear (plus cut and buffed) on at least half of the car while I'm home...

My 2 biggest hurdles to this are:

1) Getting car and garage up to above 60 degrees when I plan to shoot... I'm going to insulate my garage door and figure a good way to get some heat in there...

2) Need to either buy or rent a bigger compressor... Don't have any 240V plugs in the garage, and my breaker box is completely full... So I either need to daisy chain two 115V compressors together (which is dangerous and what I really don't want to do) or get a gas powered air compressor...

Any suggestions would be appreciated...

Thanks much

Rogman

So how long are you going to be home here in Vegas to do this? Let me know when you would like some help as I can stop by and lend a hand with the cutting and buffing.

In the OP you mention the car is painted but your last post says otherwise?

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Do they have an auto hobby shop? Most bases I've been to have a Booth in them available to military, I've been using them for 10 years. Andrews afb recently closed there shop due to budget cuts. It was always $35 per day plus $10 to bake at Scott afb in Illinois. Good luck to ya.

If you need to borrow a good gun, I have satajet guns.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

Unfortunatly we no longer have a hobby shop due to budget cuts.

 

[rogman16]

So how long are you going to be home here in Vegas to do this? Let me know when you would like some help as I can stop by and lend a hand with the cutting and buffing.

In the OP you mention the car is painted but your last post says otherwise?

Sorry, went back and read it... Should've said painting versus painted!!! I'll go back and edit...

I will be home for two weeks... We'll see how the first few days go and what the weather is like... I certainly don't want to rush the bc/cc step... Need to figure out my compressor/heating options to ensure I can get some paint shot...

This will be my first guide coat/sanding step... I sprayed 4 good wet coats of K36, so not anticipating having to do much re-priming after guide coat...

I kept my original driver's door (replaced due to rust on the frame of the door) and prepped it like the rest of the car... Plan is to shoot this door with my bc/cc to dial my gun/technique in, and then practice my sanding/buffing on this door before I shoot anything on the actual pieces...

I'll shoot you a PM once I get home and have worked on the pieces for a few days...

Thanks for you offer...

Unfortunatly we no longer have a hobby shop due to budget cuts.

One of my first stops after I decided to redo the car... They still have the paint booth at Nellis, but it hasn't been maintained for several years due to the budget cuts... The way things are going, we're going to lose most these types of "services" on base... Already closing 9 holes on the golf course, maybe shutting down the bowling alley, etc...

Rogman

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Ok sounds good.

Which booth are you talking about boss? There is only three that I know of. The one for planes, mine, and the horse for GOV's. The bowling alley and theater are also closed down.

 

[rogman16]

Guess the elapsed time passed and I can't go edit my original post, but meant to say painting instead of painted... Hopefully, paint will start flowing at the end of next week... This gives me some time to order my pads, compounds and polishes...

Rogman

 

[rogman16]

Ok sounds good.

Which booth are you talking about boss? There is only three that I know of. The one for planes, mine, and the horse for GOV's. The bowling alley and theater are also closed down.

Dang, that happened quickly... When I left in July, they were still open!!!!

If you look at the hobby shop, you can still see the exterior vents from the paint booth... Not operational now, but used to be over there by CE...

Rogman

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Sounds good. I have an 849x, 3401, G110v2, and 3 inch Griots polisher with quite a few pads for all machines as well as a pad washer.

What pads and liquid are you looking into for this project? What machines do you have?

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Just checked with my coworkers and the booth at the hobby shop was closed in '93.

 

[rogman16]

Sounds good. I have an 849x, 3401, G110v2, and 3 inch Griots polisher with quite a few pads for all machines as well as a pad washer.

What pads and liquid are you looking into for this project? What machines do you have?

Have a 3m 20325 DA for the color sanding... Both a Makita rotary (don't know the model, but similar to the 9227C that AG sells on their site) and a Porter Cable 7424... Have a complete set of pads for the PC (think it came with 6 pads), and an "old" wool pad (8" inch) for the Makita...

Planning on getting the 3m products for the Makita (compound and pads)...

3M Perfect-It Low Linting 8" Wool Pad, 3m perfect it low linting 8 inch wool pad double sided, no lint wool pad, 3M perfect it rubbing compound pad

3M Perfect-It™ Double Sided Foam Compounding Pad, double sided foam pads, 3M rotary compounding pad, Perfect It buffing pads

3M Perfect It Polishing Pad, Double Sided Foam Pad, Perfect It Foam Polishing Pad

3M Perfect-It Ultra Fine Polishing Pad, double sided foam pads, buffing pads, foam polishing pad

Product:

3M Perfect-It 3000 Rubbing Compound, 3M Rubbing Compound, 3M Perfect It 3

3M Perfect-It 3000 Machine Polish, 3M 06064, remove swirl marks, 3M Perfect It Swirl Remover

3M polish, 3M ultrafina, ultra fine polish, 3m car polish, rotary polisher, finishing polish, final polish

I'm about to place this order with AG, unless someone recommends a better system...

Rogman