What am I doing wrong?

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Widowmaker[X]

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Hey guys,

I'm attempting to remove swirls on my bright red '06 Mustang, but unfortunately I'm not seeming to have much luck at all.

I'm using a PC7424XP. I started out with PB SSR1 on an LC white pad, which failed to remove much at all. I bumped up to SSR 2.5 on an LC white, then an LC orange pad, and all that seemed to do was leave me with even more swirls, even after following up with the SSR1 again. It's bumming me out!

Sample pic, after SSR 2.5 then SSR1...
2z8yg0k.jpg


As a comparison, here is a panel that I did not touch...
5uequs.jpg


If anything, I feel as though I made things worse!

I washed, dried, and clayed before attempting the polish. I'm set on speed 5 on my PC as recommended, and I timed myself at about 3-4 minutes of polishing before removing. The polish starts to powder a bit (which I assume means it's breaking down?)

I'm using (what I consider) moderate pressure (the pad is rotating slowly, maybe 2 RPM's per second visually). I'm keeping my pads as clean as possible (using a terry towel). I am working outside, but I don't feel as though that should affect the results this much...

So what am I doing wrong here? Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
Welcome to AGO!!

I am not familiar with the PB polishes but, if it is starting to dust, sounds like you are working it too long. When it is broken down, it will look oily/creamy or like nothing at all.

Try slow arm speed and cut back to say a minute and look at what that gets you.
 
:welcome: To Autogeek Online! :props:

I'm afraid I don't have any experience with PoorBoy's World polishes but here's what they say about 2.5.

SSR2.5

SSR2.5 is more than a polish but less than a compound. Rather than just cleaning the surface paint like a polish, it removes light to moderate imperfections to improve the paint’s texture. Unlike a compound that removes flaws but requires the use of a fine polish afterwards, SSR2.5 corrects and refines the paint in one step. You get the best of both worlds in one bottle!

It sounds like you could need a more aggressive product. Even though SSR2.5 and SSR3.0 appear to be close in numericly their descriptions are quite a bit different.

SSR3

This compound contains heavy duty abrasives and unique cleaners that exfoliate badly damaged paint to reveal a fresh, clean layer. It’s far too tough for light blemishes. SSR3 is for rough, pitted paint that is on the brink of irreparable. Consider it your vehicle’s last hope. In most cases, SSR3 will restore your paint to a uniform texture and color. An application of SSR1 will refine the paint to a perfectly smooth luster. Once you apply a coat of wax, your paint will look dramatically improved, if not perfect.

From the photos you attached it looks like you're making progress but not quite there yet. I would try something a little more aggressive and you should see some improvement...
 
Thanks for the welcomes! I've creeped on this forum for a long time but only recently joined. Lots of great tips here!

Although I know little about polishing, I certainly don't consider the condition of my paint bad enough to meet the requirements for SSR3.

The appearance is difficult to portray in photographs. After polishing the paint just appears hazy and flat. Getting real close to it, I can see a ton of tiny scratches that I can only assume came from the DA itself.

Maybe I am working the polish too long, which is causing it to dry out and therefore mar the surface?

Oh, and as far as my pressure on the polisher goes, how fast should the pad itself be rotating? I have a mark on the backing plate so I can see the rotation, but I'm curious if more or less pressure would help me.
 
Even though the condition may not be that bad, the clear coat might be too hard for the product you are working with. For example...I recently did a red Shelby Cobra replica that wasn't in bad shape, but I had to use a fairly aggressive product to get the swirls out. If done correctly, you aren't going to hurt the paint using a more aggressive product.
 
Sounds like you are either not working long enough or too long. Underworking a polish can leave the surface hazy due to not breaking down the diminishing abrasives long enough.

Overworking can leave it hazy and marred due to dry polishing.

I would recommend going to local store and picking up some Meguiars Ultimate Compound. It is a SMAT product and does not require being thoroughly broken down. You can stop polishing at any time (without going too long) and get great results. This takes the not working long enough factor out of it.

Once you get the hang of that, then maybe go back to the Poorboys and learn how to use it.

btw, the paint on my Mustang is really hard and can take a lot of compounding to get the swirls out.
 
Wow quick responses here!

Good info Shelby I have heard that Ford paints are on the harder side but I guess I didn't want to believe it...

What pad would you recommend using with the UC? I actually have some lying around that I can try out... :xyxthumbs:
 
[quote='Widowmaker[X]
What pad would you recommend using with the UC? I actually have some lying around that I can try out... :xyxthumbs:

[/quote]

UC is very versatile, you can use it for what you want to do with a polishing pad...

Cutting pad for aggressive work.


:)
 
Widowmaker[X] said:
Wow quick responses here!

Good info Shelby I have heard that Ford paints are on the harder side but I guess I didn't want to believe it...

What pad would you recommend using with the UC? I actually have some lying around that I can try out... :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...
Without sounding like a broken record, always do a test spot and start with the least aggressive. Therefore, I would start with a white LC polishing pad (or equivalent). If that does not work well enough, try the orange. At this point, I would avoid yellow pads.

Another thing to consider would be the Megs Microfiber DA system. Absolutely love it. I would consider it a correction and not maintenance. Once you have corrected the paint, then maintain with good washing and drying techniques. Then occasionally clean up the swirls with something less aggressive like Meg M205 (or Swirl X) or even Menzerna PO85rd (or whatever the new number is) on foam pads.

Let us know how this works out for you. I dont read posts everyday, but, I will try to keep an eye out for this thread.
 
Well, I tried out some UC today with a white pad, with similar results...

331ewl1.jpg


That was after 2 treatments of half of the rear trunklid on the 5 speed setting applying very light pressure (little more than the weight of the PC itself).
 
Try an orange with slightly more pressure. That's what I had to do with my griots (tangerine equivalent) an UC before it cut like I wanted it to.

Hopefully more people will chime in cause I'm a bit of a noob.
 
I've said it in the past and some don't agree but Poorboy's polishes are just a pain to use with DA polishers. They have (seemingly) inconsistently sized diminishing abrasive particles that no matter what you do with a DA won't fully break down, leaving millions of little tick marks in an otherwise nice finish. I've used Poorboy's polishes exclusively for a few years earlier in my detailing career and tried every imaginable technique possible with less than stellar results. Anyone disagreeing with this are either fooling themselves or have never produced really stellar finishing results.:bolt:

Use PB polishes with a rotary and they produce much nicer results with a very short effective cutting cycle (they break down fast with rotary) so you need to understand how diminishing abrasives break down to achieve great results in a decent amount of time. After the abrasives break down, the cutting ability diminishes to a state of finer polishing and correction slows quickly.

Non diminishing abrasives (SMAT) are definitely the way to go. Keep practicing with the Meguiar's line (I suggest D-300 followed by M-205) and you'll have that Mustang looking fantastic. IMO, Ultimate Compound is too thinned out so it can be Bubba Proof for the Walmart Mafia. You want professional results? Stick with the professional lines from Meguiars.
 
tuscarora dave said:
Non diminishing abrasives (SMAT) are definitely the way to go. Keep practicing with the Meguiar's line (I suggest D-300 followed by M-205) and you'll have that Mustang looking fantastic. IMO, Ultimate Compound is too thinned out so it can be Bubba Proof for the Walmart Mafia. You want professional results? Stick with the professional lines from Meguiars.
Click to expand...

A great combination!

It's hard to argue with fact!! :props:

I was really surprised how well Meguiar's D-300 worked, especially with my rotary and an Orange foam pad. I was doing some experimenting on the hood of a 2011 Black Elantra and the hood gleamed it was so smooth.

I was able to finish out the hood very nicely with Meguiar's M205 with a gray finishing pad and talk about a smooth defect free shine! :props:
 
tuscarora dave said:
I suggest D-300 followed by M-205
Click to expand...
I have not tried the D300 on anything but MF pads. I will have to try it with my DA and rotary soon. I am in process of buying a used car for my daughter. Of course, I will bring it up to speed when I get it. Sounds like a good time to try Dave's combo suggestion and maybe even one of the new paint coatings.
 
Widowmaker[X] said:
Well, I tried out some UC today with a white pad, with similar results...



That was after 2 treatments of half of the rear trunk lid on the 5 speed setting applying very light pressure (little more than the weight of the PC itself).
Click to expand...


Here's the pertinent portion cropped out and uploaded into your gallery...

lighthazewidomaker.jpg




That looks like typical DA Haze. This could be one or two things,

1. The DA Haze already there not removed by the M105 (Possible but probably not likely)

2. DA Haze from the M105 replacing the DA Haze left by the PB
​

If it's #1
the first issue, then turn your speed up and press down harder for the first 4-5 section passes and then lessen your pressure for the last 1-2 section passes. In order to remove paint you need to engage the abrasives with the paint so they'll take little bites out of it. It could be you're not using enough downward pressure and basically your pad and abrasives are skimming or rolling over the surface.


If it's #2
Then this would be a sign the paint is on the soft side and easily scratched. The cure would be to re-polish using a less aggressive polish. I would recommend something from Menzerna like either the SI 1500 or the SF 4000, both fantastic polishes, the first being a medium cut the latter being a fine cut. Haven't seen a paint system that either of these don't work flawlessly on.


Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers


SI 1500 – Super Intensive Polish (PO83)

SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)


Also, this is where it helps to use a tape-line when struggling with coming up with the right combination of pads, products and techniques to dial-in a perfect process.

The tape line will help your eyes to easily see if you're making progress as compared to where you started from.

Last Saturday while teaching a guy new to machine polishing I taught him to use a tape-line to see differences.

The only bad thing about using a tape-line is you have to be carefully that you don't buff too long or then you have to buff enough paint off the other side to remove the tape-line.


Test... test... test...


:)
 
This was done entirerly using the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System. I saw the car a year later and it still looked exceptionally good.


2006 Mustang GT Convertible - Meguiar’s DA Microfiber Polishing System


Meguiar’s DA Microfiber Polishing System
DASystem02.jpg



Mustangs are beautiful cars but not when the paint shimmers with swirls... the paint is supposed to shimmer with a swirl-free shine....
Horrendous002.jpg


Horrendous008.jpg



:xyxthumbs:
 
Unfortunately, the weather hasn't allowed me to continue (no garage here)

Hopefully this weekend I will be able to continue my quest. I will be sure to update!

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

:xyxthumbs:
 
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