What are the REAL benefits of a long throw polisher?

briarpatch

briarpatch

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I'm new into this obsession, so I could not bring myself to spend the extra money (got a GG6) on a BOSS or one of the other long-throw polishers out there. So, like the thread title asks......what are the REAL benefits of these machines over mine, or a PC 7424 for that matter. I'm not challenging those on here who speak to their effectiveness, but I'm trying to learn what you are really paying for with the higher priced machines
 
Forced rotation, higher rpm, better orbit all translate into easier and faster results. Big advantage I see is time savings as they can power through tough corrections quicker. Forced rotation on uneven surfaces helps most noticeably there. I'm torn. Don't mind spending the money but for me I mainly do our own vehicles which are perfect and occasionally friends and what not. Have had zero issues accomplishing fantastic results with my PC or Shurhold.
 
To my understanding there aren't any forced rotation long throw machines. The Rupes, BOSS etc are free spinning and will stop if enough resistance is provided.

My take on them is they work more because of the longer throw i.e. they work more than the shorter throw DA's.
 
The short and simple answer - a long throw polisher can accomplish higher levels of correction in less time than a traditional small orbit polisher (PC or similar) and does so without the need for extremely high speeds, forced rotation, etc.

I think what you're trying to get to the root of is why does it cost more? A few things - the engineering required to balance a tool throwing a pad around at 21mm is far more complex than accomplishing the same with an 8mm tool; we're talking 2.5x the distance traveled by the pad, which would instinctively lead you to think "more vibration" when the truth is the BigFoot 21 is smoother than any PC type tool you'll ever find, effectively the smoothest operating tool on the market save for the Cyclo that has distinct advantages in design that offset vibration. You've also got vastly improved ergonomics, efficiency, etc.

You can't really compare the latest generation of tools to things like the PC in terms of electronics. Our BigFoot line of large orbit tools is much 'smarter' utilizing a much more complex electronics module than older tools which delivered a much more linear type of power.
 
i had a hard time justifying the high price untill i bit the bullet and bought a Rupes 15. it's worth every penny, i can now polish cars faster with less effort. not even a year latter i have invested in a Rupes 21 and a 75e.

you can look into the Rupes Duetto, all of the Rupes quality at a "budget" price
 
Matt@Revive said:
you can look into the Rupes Duetto, all of the Rupes quality at a "budget" price
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Not to talk anyone out of a Duetto, but with the 15ES coming down in price after the release of the 15 Mark II they're now the same price - the real justification for a Duetto is what its intended purpose is: A polisher thats also highly effective as a sander. Not everyone needs that capability, but if you do the Duetto is a killer option.
 
Just to clear, 8mm IS a long throw for a forced rotation device like a Flex3401. As for PC vs Long Throw? No comparison, my Rupes 15 is considerably more powerful than my PC/DAS6 not to mention the smoothness is in another league. Those 2 reasons alone justify the price difference.
 
briarpatch said:
I'm new into this obsession, so I could not bring myself to spend the extra money (got a GG6) on a BOSS or one of the other long-throw polishers out there. So, like the thread title asks......what are the REAL benefits of these machines over mine, or a PC 7424 for that matter. I'm not challenging those on here who speak to their effectiveness, but I'm trying to learn what you are really paying for with the higher priced machines
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It is actually a good move to start with a traditional polisher like the GG6--if you ever decide to move up to a long throw machine the GG6 equipped with 3 or 4 inch pads is great for the tight bits.

The GG6 has an 8mm orbit and I don't consider that a long throw polisher. The Flex3401 adds forced rotation to the 8mm throw, but it is not a long throw polisher. The Rupes, Griots Boss and a few others are long throw polishers--either 15 or 21mm throw. Flex has announced a 15mm long throw polisher without forced rotation.

I started with a GG6 equipped with a 5" backing plate and 5.5" pads (also 3.5" backing plate and 4" pads for the tight spaces) and there isn't anything it can't handle with the right polishing products. However, I've added a Griots G15 as my primary polisher mainly because it is so much smoother and requires very little downward pressure--so polishing is much less tiring. And it cuts polishing time almost in half for me. So now the GG6 is set up permanently with 4" pads--another time saving step as I don't have to stop to change backing plates for the tight bits.
 
As a new user. Here is what I find appealing about the G15 Polisher. You don't have to apply much pressure to get the paint corrected.


Love using the polisher on my car paint.. Hated using it to polish my windows. And if your on the fence you can always order directly from Griots and try it for 180 days. Keep mind your going to get the best deal from Autogeek. Just not sure if they will let you return it after 180 days.
 
Dylan@RUPES said:
Not to talk anyone out of a Duetto, but with the 15ES coming down in price after the release of the 15 Mark II they're now the same price.QUOTE]


i forgot about the price drop on the original 15 and 21. with that info i'd jump on a 15ES before they are gone!
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Dylan@RUPES said:
Not to talk anyone out of a Duetto, but with the 15ES coming down in price after the release of the 15 Mark II they're now the same price - the real justification for a Duetto is what its intended purpose is: A polisher thats also highly effective as a sander. Not everyone needs that capability, but if you do the Duetto is a killer option.
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That, the body style, and increased opm?

I'm personally not a fan of the rotary style chassis. That's what made the Duetto the natural choice for me.
 
Once I grasped the concept of the long throw machines, it was easy for me to dial in the process. I went from having 8mm to 12mm. The machine also ran smoother, and was more robust in it's delivery of power.

I went from using a machine on speeds 4-6, to using a machine from speeds 2-4.

Imagine your pad still, no rotation. Imagine that stationary pad being moved over the paint 8mm, 12, 15, and 21. Almost like hand sanding in a straight line (but in this example it's in a circle). Now imagine that pad starting to spin. That's a lot of movement compared to what I was used to with the 8mm PC (which I still love). Even though I only went up 4mm, that an extra 50% motion for me.

Pretty good idea from those guys in Italy. I mean to design an entire line of tools around that concept is pretty ingenious, and it actually works as advertised.

Right now I'm pretty happy with the Duetto, but I imagine once the Mini, and Nanos are acquired I'll round out the rest of my outfit with the 15, and 21. I've really been taken with Rupes. Not just the tools, but their proprietary pads, and compounds. Really top notch, high quality products.
 
Its a luxury item for us that do our own vehicles only. For washed induced marring, it doesnt save much time, people still do 4 section passes with polishes despite their machine.....
 
The benefit of the larger stroke machine is that it covers more surface area - so it does more work faster.

I believe there is some benefit that the larger stroke machines also keep the pad cleaner through some increased squeegee like mechanism - so that contributes to them finishing down better and faster.

Since you need higher quality engineering to make a large throw machine so it doesn't blow itself up - the machines are OFTEN smoother and of higher quality.

The trade off is they cost more and tend to stall more on concave panels. They also can be harder on pads, if you don't use a pad designed for the long throw type machine.

Another trade off is you can't use pads from 3"-6.5" on a single large throw machine. You are best off using the pad and backing plate the machine is designed for, so you will likely need a machine just for smaller pads.

That being said, IMHO, Rupes has eliminated two of the "trade offs". The 15 Mk II is as powerful as any free spinning 8mm machine IMHO. The Rupes pads also seems to last a long time. The higher cutting pads don't hold up as well as the softer pads - but they still are built pretty well.

The Rupes machines are quality built, and rarely have an issue. Unlike a forced rotation machine, the are efficient and run cool. So, you really have to be a caveman to melt backing plates or pads. This makes them more user friendly as well. I think they are the best DA machines on the market.
 
Thank you all for the responses......just trying to absorb it all
 
swanicyouth said:
Unlike a forced rotation machine, the are efficient and run cool. So, you really have to be a caveman to melt backing plates or pads. This makes them more user friendly as well. I think they are the best DA machines on the market.
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I have not seen a lot of people melting the BP on a FLEX 3401.

The pads last a long time on my 3401. I can effectively use wool, thick foam, thin foam, PFW, Rayon...you name it. No special pads required.


I COULD run 4" pads on my 3401, but wouldn't.


I understand that the machine does heat up, but I have never found it to be an issue, as the heat seems to be effectively isolated from the BP.

I believe the Direct Drive of the machine is responsible for the heat and this is a limit of engineering that the free spindle mechanism of the Rupes does not contend with.

In my opinion, both the Rupes and FLEX require more skill than a traditional DA. The Rupes CAN stall and the FLEX CAN jump around if used improperly.

I will always appreciate the Brute Force of my FLEX.


On hard paint with deep defects, it will always out cut the Rupes.
 
Matt@Revive said:
i forgot about the price drop on the original 15 and 21. with that info i'd jump on a 15ES before they are gone!
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For the time being they're not going anywhere. The LHR15ES and LHR21ES are here to stay and are still in production... makes them both a great way for a beginner or more budget conscious person to dip their toes in the BigFoot water.
 
I'm taking a dive into the big foot waters here soon and will be getting a 15es along with the UHS system to start.... I can't wait to try it, they look soo smooth and quiet running compared to my gg6, which I still love but just want a little more refinement so I can enjoy the process a little more
 
For the beginner I feel like cost is the biggest factor in making a polisher purchase. If my budget allowed me to buy a long throw polisher I would have. I'm all about working smarter not harder. My $50 Harbor Freight DA (2 of them actually lol) works great for me and the price fit my budget nicely. I have used it to correct about 10 sets of headlights along with polishing my truck twice and it has yet to fail. Sure, the vibrations are notable, but its a price I'm willing to pay to stay under budget!
 
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