What Polisher(s) to Buy?

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CAdetailer

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Hi Mike,
I am looking for some advice on what polishers to buy/use.

I used to detail back in the stone age (before DAs), using a rotary with a wool pad, hand polish, and hand wax. I would like to get set back up to do my own cars so I have been educating myself on the different polishers & pads that are on the market today. After doing some research I have a few questions on what polisher to buy/use for my personal cars.

1) How do these two machines compare when it comes to heavy/medium correction?:
A) PC7424XP with the Meguires DA MF correction system
B) Flex 3401

2) From what I've seen it seems like the PC7424XP takes more time & finessing for heavier correction even with the Megs DA MF correction than the Flex 3401, what is your opinion?

3) Is there an upper limit on the PC7424XP's ability to do heavy correction?

4) Does one machine work better for a wider range of duties from heavy correction to jeweling or are they about the same?.

5) What is a more versatile combination of polishers:
A) Makita 9227C rotary & a PC7424XP
B) Flex 3401

Thank You
http://www.autogeek.net/flex-orbital-polisher.html
 
I would go with the Dewalt 849X instead of the Makita. The Flex is an acquired taste. I love mine. Most of my friends dont.
 
Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

Man you ask some great questions, let me take a stab at them...



CAdetailer said:
Hi Mike,
I am looking for some advice on what polishers to buy/use.

I used to detail back in the stone age (before DAs), using a rotary with a wool pad, hand polish, and hand wax. I would like to get set back up to do my own cars so I have been educating myself on the different polishers & pads that are on the market today. After doing some research I have a few questions on what polisher to buy/use for my personal cars.

1) How do these two machines compare when it comes to heavy/medium correction?:

A) PC7424XP with the Meguires DA MF correction system
B) Flex 3401
Click to expand...

The Flex 3401 wins hands-down because it's direct drive. This means the pad will not rotating/oscillating no matter how much pressure you apply or whether you're buffing a curved panel or not.

With ANY tool that uses the free floating spindle bearing assemble for a drive mechanism, if you push too hard or hold the tool at an angle or if you're buffing on a curved, (convex/concave), panel, the potential to have the pad stop rotating exists and happens.

You can do heavy correction using a PC or Megs or Griot's but if you're going to do this for money and want to reduce your buffing time, you have more ability to remove defects faster using a direct drive tool versus a non-direct drive tool.


CAdetailer said:
2) From what I've seen it seems like the PC7424XP takes more time & finessing for heavier correction even with the Megs DA MF correction than the Flex 3401, what is your opinion?
Click to expand...

Just to make sure you understand, the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System is formulated for, designed for and targeted at production detailing. Not show car detailing.

I do mostly show car detailing so while I like the system, I need more than this single targeted market system. Plus, my testing on black paint shows foam pads on any type of tool to continue to finish out nicer than any type of fiber pad. The problem is having the individual fibers cutting the paint.

Sometimes you cannot see the true and accurate results unless you now how to inspect for them.


CAdetailer said:
3) Is there an upper limit on the PC7424XP's ability to do heavy correction?
Click to expand...

No. If a tool will remove paint, then it's just a matter of how much time you want to invest removing paint.



CAdetailer said:
4) Does one machine work better for a wider range of duties from heavy correction to jeweling or are they about the same?.
Click to expand...

If you wanted just one tool that could do it all, then the Flex 3401 would be the most versatile and practical choice.

I'm not a big fan of limiting people to a single tool.


CAdetailer said:
5) What is a more versatile combination of polishers:

A) Makita 9227C rotary & a PC7424XP
B) Flex 3401
Click to expand...

Option A,

A) Makita 9227C rotary & a PC7424XP

Do the heavy chopping with the rotary, finish out with the DA and then machine apply a wax or paint sealant with the DA.



:)
 
Take a moment to watch these videos...


Video: All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher


The Flex 3401
Flex3401.jpg

Here's a video Yancy and I made showing the primary differences between three different drive mechanisms between popular polishers for machine buffing paint.

  • Flex 3401 - Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher.
  • Rotary Buffers - Direct Drive Single Action Polisher.
  • PC style DA Polishers - Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2 and Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher.
All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher
[video=youtube_share;EAmojb8XIuk&hd=1"]All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual...[/video]​






Motorhead Garage - Machine Polishing with Pinnacle - Episode 7


On Sunday, February 13th, at 11:30am Eastern Time, and on Monday, February 14th, at 4:30pm Eastern Time, a brand new how-to segment will air with with myself, Dave Bowman and Sam Memmolo on the Fox Sports Network.



Removing Swirls and Oxidation By Machine
[video=youtube_share;PWdYCHZrpd8"]How To Remove Oxidation by Machine Polishing with...[/video]​





:xyxthumbs:
 
CAdetailer said:
After doing some research I have a few questions on what polisher to buy/use for my personal cars.
Click to expand...


If all you're going to work on are your personal cars, not sure how many cars you have but you can tackle everything with a PC, good products and a good selection of both fiber and foam pads.

Pick up a copy of my how-to book too...


Paperback




:)
 
I'm going to piggyback this thread, as Im considering updating with something new from my old Porter.
OldTiger, why don't most of your friends like it if I can ask?

Mike, would it even be worthwhile/difference of going with the Griot's since I have an old 7424? If not, I will wait and save pennies to snag a Flex in a month or so.
Just curious.
 
scooterguitar said:
Mike, would it even be worthwhile/difference of going with the Griot's since I have an old 7424?
Click to expand...


All the current DA style polishers are better able to keep a pad rotating under pressure than the first generation Porter Cable Polishers.

That said, MILLIONS of cars have been de-swirled using the first gen PC's. If you own one, I have an article just for you....


The short how-to guide for using a DA Polisher
How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers


It's all about getting and using thin, smaller diameter buffing pads. Here's an example,


Thin is in... New Lake Country Hydro-Tech Low Profile 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Foam Pads


NewHydroTech02.jpg




Another example would be to look at how thin the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction Pads are. There's a reason they made these thin.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

Man you ask some great questions, let me take a stab at them...





The Flex 3401 wins hands-down because it's direct drive. This means the pad will not rotating/oscillating no matter how much pressure you apply or whether you're buffing a curved panel or not.

With ANY tool that uses the free floating spindle bearing assemble for a drive mechanism, if you push too hard or hold the tool at an angle or if you're buffing on a curved, (convex/concave), panel, the potential to have the pad stop rotating exists and happens.

You can do heavy correction using a PC or Megs or Griot's but if you're going to do this for money and want to reduce your buffing time, you have more ability to remove defects faster using a direct drive tool versus a non-direct drive tool.




Just to make sure you understand, the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System is formulated for, designed for and targeted at production detailing. Not show car detailing.

I do mostly show car detailing so while I like the system, I need more than this single targeted market system. Plus, my testing on black paint shows foam pads on any type of tool to continue to finish out nicer than any type of fiber pad. The problem is having the individual fibers cutting the paint.

Sometimes you cannot see the true and accurate results unless you now how to inspect for them.




No. If a tool will remove paint, then it's just a matter of how much time you want to invest removing paint.





If you wanted just one tool that could do it all, then the Flex 3401 would be the most versatile and practical choice.

I'm not a big fan of limiting people to a single tool.




Option A,

A) Makita 9227C rotary & a PC7424XP

Do the heavy chopping with the rotary, finish out with the DA and then machine apply a wax or paint sealant with the DA.



:)
Click to expand...
:goodpost:This post reinforces some things that get talked about over and over again but get lost as soon as the next page gets started.
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
Plus an assortment of backing plates, pads and compounds,
Click to expand...

5 inch Backing Plates on Meguiar's, Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers

Trend: Backing Plate Extensions for Surgical Precision Buffing

Trend: Flexible Backing Plates for Rotary Buffers

Trend: Small buffing pads

Trends: Flexible Backing Plates

Flex-Foam HD Rotary Backing Plate

Flexible Backing Plates




Nicholas@Autowerx said:
Plus TIME invested in learning how each tool works and practicing with each tool and you will be able to do show car quality detailing.
Click to expand...


Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.

-Vince Lombardi​


My trusty, dusty old Makita...
MetalWornAwayAfterYearsOfBuffing.jpg




:xyxthumbs:
 
THANK YOU for the super detailed response Mike :dblthumb2:

There is lots of great information here and it has helped me clarify and get a better idea of what machine can do what. I guess what it really comes down to for me is, I learned on a rotary w/wool pad and feel comfortable using it and it seems like the non direct drive DAs are a compromise in performance to limit the risk of burning the paint. I like the concept but am very unsure of there performance and ability, hence my questions.

After learning more it seems like the DAs do have their place and that to me seems to be as a medium correction and jeweling/finishing tool. Additionally with the introduction and development of foam pads there seems to be a much greater range in ability for the all different polishing machines which adds many different variations in ability to each tool.

One more question; since like it seems that DAs have their place what is your opinion of the Griots Garage 6" VS the PC7424XP?

Thanks
 
I have both the PC and the Flex. I run a detail shop and have always detailed with the PC until about 2 months ago when I broke down and bought the Flex. The Flex is the best polishing tool that I have ever used. I still use the PC but always start out with the Flex and use it almost all the time. If I were starting out with just one tool it would be the Flex without a doubt.
 
CAdetailer said:
THANK YOU for the super detailed response Mike :dblthumb2:
Click to expand...


Your very welcome and I think and hope that these types of replies are the important features that separate this detailing discussion forum from all the rest. If you like our forum and the help you get here, be sure to share AGO with all your car buddies.


CAdetailer said:
One more question; since like it seems that DAs have their place what is your opinion of the Griots Garage 6" VS the PC7424XP?

Thanks
Click to expand...


The Griot's definitely has more power, a couple of years ago I posted that the Griot's is like a safe version of a rotary buffer.

The Porter Cable has the 30+ year time proven track record of reliability.

I can get everything I want to get done with either tool ans also the Meguiar's G110v2

I try not to publicly post my favorite choices for things like tools but recently went on record as preferring the new DeWALT 849x or Bumblebee as my choice for a full size Rotary Buffer and the Flex PE14 for a Compact Rotary Buffer to do what I call Surgical Buffing.

Surgical Buffing

DeWALT DWP849X vs Makita 9227C Rotary Buffers


Just to note, before DeWALT launched their new 849X they came to discussion forums and asked Pro Detailers and Enthusiast what features and benefits we would like to see in a rotary buffer. That's being proactive and having your finger on the pulse of this industry.

Find out what your customer's want and give them to it...



When I go out into the studio to work on a car, if I'm going to use a PC style polisher I will tend to grab the PC first but at the same time I'll grab whichever one is closest to my hand if it has the right size backing plate.

  • I like the Griot's for the power
  • I like the Meguiar's for the slow start and cruise control feature
  • I like the PC because you can driver over it with a truck, pick it up and get back to work with it.
I should also add too that since I have all the tool, not just a single tool, I can match the tool to the job.

Porter Cable or Flex should pay attention to forums like this and one of them should come out with a Gold Cadillac version.

Many on this forum have or are going to only purchase one tool and if they purchase the PC style tool they will inevitably push the tool past it's limit as to what it was designed for when a better choice would be either the Flex 3401 or a rotary buffer.


Watch the live broadcast tonight, we'll be using a little of everything and I'll ask Yancy to get some tight shots of the different tools in action.


:)
 
This is another one of those personal preference situations. I own the PC, Flex, and Griot Garage Models. Here's my opinion. I love my Griot Garage model for 3 reasons. It does a great job, I've never had any trouble from it, and you can't beat the price. I personally have had issues with my PC. But, it was a year old when it started having those issues. I like the Flex and is a great quality product. But boy is it $$$!
 
I'm also looking to purchase my first da polisher. I'm definitely a novice and I wondering whether I'm in any danger of harming the paint with a direct drive da, or should I go with the pc?
 
LuckyDetailer said:
I like the Flex and is a great quality product. But boy is it $$$!
Click to expand...


Lucky I totally agree, the flex seems very nice but for the $$$ I can get a good rotary and a good DA, and nave two different tools that in combination with different pads that can be used in a wide variety of applications.

Thanks again Mike for all of the good information and honest advice.
 
I'm not sure who makes it, but what about the machine that is a rotary, and you flip a switch and it turns into a DA. AG carries it, seems like a good idea, but I've never seen one peep written about it... What do you think???
 
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